It occurred to me that until this pair of fast 28s from Voigtlander and Thypoch, we had no real useful street 28s at all for all of mirrorless history - 12 years. So the user base needs to become (re)acquainted with them, not forgetting many may only remember 28mm as the wide end of consumer zooms or near the short end of 24-70 zooms, still a full two stops slower.
It will take time to filter through. It used to be said 28mm was the widest for faces to look fairly normal although we see quite a lot of good images from the GM 24mm, if the subject has a little distance.
philip_pj wrote:
It occurred to me that until this pair of fast 28s from Voigtlander and Thypoch, we had no real useful street 28s at all for all of mirrorless history - 12 years. So the user base needs to become (re)acquainted with them, not forgetting many may only remember 28mm as the wide end of consumer zooms or near the short end of 24-70 zooms, still a full two stops slower.
It will take time to filter through. It used to be said 28mm was the widest for faces to look fairly normal although we see quite a lot of good images from the GM 24mm, if the subject has a little distance....Show more →
7Artisans had their 28/1.4 FE+ (Sony optimized but mechanically M mount, intended for adaptation) for years now.
Plus the FE 28/2, which is quite usable for Street, and Viltrox has their 28/1.8 since the fall of 2023.
The gap in 28's has mostly been in 28's not suited for Street usage, ie with landscape-grade corner performance. The only real option there has been the massive Sigma 28/1.4 Art.
I try to take a lot of photos with it, everything is fine and I like how easy it is to process a picture. I recommend it to everyone, especially considering the difference in price between it and Voigtlander, almost two times. I don't know about the rest of the world, but in Russia I bought a new, "gray", Simera for $600, for Voigtlander they ask almost $1200...
These things take time. Thypoch, really DZO, make lenses that cannot be compared to the other Chinese makers or TBH, anyone else. I've written about this but you can easily find the material online. They are providers to the *cine market*, and these Simeras are as well - for one man operations and run-and-gun usage where the heavy gear is problematic to the point of being unworkable.
Conventional photographers might want to stick to the CV equivalent, a very different lens better suited to their work. So these are a niche within a niche, but they have emerged ready formed for what some of us have been lacking in the rather pedestrian 28mm offerings since pretty much forever, since trad landmarks like the CY 28/2 come to mind.
They are also optimised for non-RF usage, with very short MFDs and the 0.7m warning detent CV has been slow to offer M users. For what I do currently, ultra thin DOF needs EVF accuracy at the addictive f1.4 setting for the movie-like close portraits. CA control is extraordinary in such a lens, you can cross-check YT guys on this. From memory, the Summ 28/1.4 was no match and carried other deficiencies as well.
What first got me interested was people here laughing about DZO's trademark aperture setting spacing, with intermediate detents and ring rotation concentrated at the wide end, fading to shorter spacings for smaller apertures. It makes perfect sense in lenses designed for WO and near WO use, and they use it in their full on cine lenses too.
If you restrict yourself to medium to long focal distances, may as well buy something else. Not many movies have human subjects all shown at 10m plus..
My lens arrived today and I have to say - it's a beauty. Very well made and solid. Smooth. Not too big. And very sharp at f1.4. This one of backyard flowers was at f2 I believe. This is a keeper.
mudlake wrote:
My lens arrived today and I have to say - it's a beauty. Very well made and solid. Smooth. Not too big. And very sharp at f1.4. This one of backyard flowers was at f2 I believe. This is a keeper.
So you got the E-mount? Does focus magnification work with it?
fotografur wrote:
So you got the E-mount? Does focus magnification work with it?
Yes, I got the E-mount version. The auto focus magnification does not work with this lens, but I always have it turned off anyway because I like to punch in with a custom button. I also get focus peaking which is nice.
Good. It's a horizon expanding lens (no pun intended) that encourages experimenting. Very satisfying color, too. And good at MFD, where you can rock back and forth to optimise exact focus. Strong focal plane helps. Very sound IQ by mid apertures.
What sets them apart from the technically very good lenses from other Chinese makers is what I think of as the new battleground - cinematic off-plane performance: transitions back and front; rates of fade; smoothness of fade; depiction of motifs in bokeh at different distances; edge of motif treatment (balloon-like or constrained); contrast in bokeh. You might expect 14 blade apertures to help here, and this is the Simeras' secret advantage. Other makers are quietly increasing blade counts, Leica included. DZO are new age pioneers in this respect.
Very few makers pay great attention because the dominant look is fast transitions and high abstracting coming in fast. We see this in the new Zeiss ML 50/1.4, Zeiss are popularising this look. The new technically super-good Viltrox 50/2 is another one. OK if you either like it or don't care much one way or the other.
But it's a very attractive feature if your lenses excel at steady fade, I believe, especially in a fast lens where about 75% of the entire image is off the focal plane and wall-to-wall blur is not your cup of tea.
First portrait. I already know this lens will be a favorite. This shot was taken wide open at f1.4. It's near perfect for people. I wish you could see on your screen what I see in Lightroom. This site always makes images fuzzier than they are.
mudlake wrote:
First portrait. I already know this lens will be a favorite. This shot was taken wide open at f1.4. It's near perfect for people. I wish you could see on your screen what I see in Lightroom. This site always makes images fuzzier than they are.
Great shot! That's nice separation and bokeh for a 1/2 body portrait at 28mm. Rendering on point.
Does anyone know if there's any difference between the M and E version of this lens? I'm guessing not...I've got a very nice close focus adapter and I'm wondering if I might like the ability to get even closer with the M mount version.
Same optics, Dave. The early M vsn had the infinity lock and (I think) lacked the aperture de-click so best to ask if you go for that one. Thypoch has this on their site:
'The Simera Z/E/X/RF mount series, compared to the Simera M mount series, eliminates the infinity lock design and includes a crescent-shaped focus tab, crafted from anodized aluminum alloy for seamless integration and tactile comfort. Its ergonomic curve enables swift focusing with smooth accuracy, elevating the shooting experience'.
Huh, interesting, thanks for the info. I've not shot with a lens with an infinity lock, so I'm not sure how I'd feel about it. I do like focus tabs, though.
Ideally I'd get both in hand, the issue is finding a store in Vancouver... I've only found the cine versions locally.
Started looking at the 35 and 50 too...also lovely rendering, lots of great samples around. This may be dark path... But I'll satisfy my desire for a fast 28 first.
One of the lenses that made me fall in love with photography was the Minolta 28/2, especially with Fujifilm Astia. I loved the more gentle contrast and smooth tones of that combo. This lens feels like a spiritual successor for me.
EDIT: Looked at their site and they have a nice photo of the tab and infinity lock. I'm also really enjoying the silver aesthetic... My Yeenon close focus adapter is silver too. Hmmm...
philip_pj wrote:
Same optics, Dave. The early M vsn had the infinity lock and (I think) lacked the aperture de-click so best to ask if you go for that one. Thypoch has this on their site:
'The Simera Z/E/X/RF mount series, compared to the Simera M mount series, eliminates the infinity lock design and includes a crescent-shaped focus tab, crafted from anodized aluminum alloy for seamless integration and tactile comfort. Its ergonomic curve enables swift focusing with smooth accuracy, elevating the shooting experience'.
Cine-oriented lenses need well-balanced and smooth front and back bokeh.
Most people don't enjoy infinity locks, unless they got used to them over time with vintage lenses. Focus tabs are easy to form usability habits around if the focus throw is on the short side, say 85 to 130 degrees or so. Focus throws should always be reported in MF lens reviews, but seldom are.
Focus throws tell you a lot about how the designers intended the lens to be used. Zeiss don't use 260 degrees and PR videos showing a guy walking with a tripod for no reason, as seen in the ML 50/1.4 Otus release. That won't be a street-capable lens. Well, you can but it won't be quick. Most Voigtlanders tend to be around 100 degrees or so.
Does it matter? F1.4 lenses are hard, both shooter and subject must keep the same distance from focus verification to release times, for eye sharpness. You have to hold the camera very still in the front/back axis. If it's causing misses too often, try using f2 for a while, then shift to f1.4.
The Simeras' rings have a wider exact focus point than most MF lenses. I go from close to far, and find I need a little more rotation than expected. It's very personal. At f1.4 the plane is very thin at say, 1-5 metres.
philip_pj wrote:
Cine-oriented lenses need well-balanced and smooth front and back bokeh.
Most people don't enjoy infinity locks, unless they got used to them over time with vintage lenses. Focus tabs are easy to form usability habits around if the focus throw is on the short side, say 85 to 130 degrees or so. Focus throws should always be reported in MF lens reviews, but seldom are.
Focus throws tell you a lot about how the designers intended the lens to be used. Zeiss don't use 260 degrees and PR videos showing a guy walking with a tripod for no reason, as seen in the ML 50/1.4 Otus release. That won't be a street-capable lens. Well, you can but it won't be quick. Most Voigtlanders tend to be around 100 degrees or so.
Does it matter? F1.4 lenses are hard, both shooter and subject must keep the same distance from focus verification to release times, for eye sharpness. You have to hold the camera very still in the front/back axis. If it's causing misses too often, try using f2 for a while, then shift to f1.4.
The Simeras' rings have a wider exact focus point than most MF lenses. I go from close to far, and find I need a little more rotation than expected. It's very personal. At f1.4 the plane is very thin at say, 1-5 metres....Show more →
Interesting, thanks for the commentary. I think for usability I'd prefer a focus tab by quite a margin, likely more useful to me than a shorter MFD.
I've not proven to be fast at manually focusing, so the idea of a lens that might be easier to nail exact focus with is appealing.
The tab is very useful, I read they were going to do the M 28mm with it too.
Street work with f1.4 lenses is quite a torture test for us, not easy! I've taken to telling subjects that 'I'm now doing the focus' - it tends to relax them. A really nice part of Simera shoots is how you can confidently use the aperture range in full knowledge of the depth for closer focus images and dreamy backgrounds. I've not seen harshness at all.
Here is a recent short video with fair comments that illustrates the range of rendering styles you can get, though he doesn't say which FLs used - and note these have the same optics except for 16 not 14 blades:
philip_pj wrote:
The tab is very useful, I read they were going to do the M 28mm with it too.
Street work with f1.4 lenses is quite a torture test for us, not easy! I've taken to telling subjects that 'I'm now doing the focus' - it tends to relax them. A really nice part of Simera shoots is how you can confidently use the aperture range in full knowledge of the depth for closer focus images and dreamy backgrounds. I've not seen harshness at all.
Here is a recent short video with fair comments that illustrates the range of rendering styles you can get, though he doesn't say which FLs used - and note these have the same optics except for 16 not 14 blades:
YouTube title:
The Best BUDGET Cine LENSES You Can Buy TODAY ...Show more →
Nice video - the shots in the library in particular. The backgrounds...so very nice. Very gentle falloff from in to out of focus. I know it has been overused on the forums, but there are scenes where the background looks very STF-like; as an owner of the 100STF, I feel at least qualified to say that
Looks Like I really am I going to have to find a Canadian supplier with stock. Interestingly the M mount version is also about $200 more expensive here in Canada.
I just grabbed a copy of this lens but the focus ring isn't perfectly smooth, some mild vibration while turning through certain portions at certain speeds. Anyone else experience this?
