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Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

MAubrey
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

Aug 15, 2024 at 06:17 AM

highdesertmesa
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

Fred, Cosina is just trying to get you to buy another M11 — just for testing purposes of course

Aug 15, 2024 at 06:41 AM

highdesertmesa
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

hmzimelka wrote:
Well. Fred's results do seem to tell a different story with regard to performance.

MTF graphs are to my knowledge, always measured at X amount of focal length. What is infinity?

Is it also written somewhere that the MTF graphs are measured versus computed? I know Zeiss did note some or all graphs were measured, but I can't say I saw the same for Voigtlander. If you have a link or statement that would be interesting to see.

Same – waiting for a link that shows Cosina uses measured. All I can find online is someone saying Cosina uses calculated, and they don't say what their source is.

Don't know who this person is, and the website looks like it was designed 25 years ago:

https://dantestella.com/technical/photodo.html

Cosina is also good at publishing high MTF numbers. The ugly truth is that the published numbers are computed MTF, which does not take into account manufacturing tolerances. You can actually get a lot worse contrast from a lens than the manufacturer's MTF would indicate. The sole exception is Zeiss, which publishes measured figures.

I just emailed Cosina and asked if these two lenses' MTF charts are measured or calculated. We'll see if I get a response.

Aug 15, 2024 at 09:06 AM

Fred Miranda
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

Here’s my take on the resolution test. I was pleasantly surprised by the performance of the CV 50/3.5 APO, especially since I had already reviewed and shared the MTF graphs. I expected to see slightly lower resolution and contrast off-axis, but that wasn’t the case at all. And yes, I made sure to test with 'real' lenses.

Another thing to note is that I have two perfectly centered lenses, and the CV 50/2 APO is my personal lens, cherry-picked from a batch, so I'm pretty confident I'm testing optimal copies.

As for switching to a higher-resolution sensor, I don't think it would make much of a difference. In my experience with 40MP and 60MP sensors, the differences in the corners are minimal. The improvements I noticed were primarily in the center. I’ve shared resolution comparisons before using our some of our best lenses on the Sony 42MP and 61MP sensors, and the only noticeable difference was at the center. The corners just looked magnified without any significant increase in detail. I believe I tested the Voigtlander 65mm f/2 APO and Sony FE 135/1.8 GM, two of our best lenses. If anyone comes across this test, please feel free to share it here.

Aug 15, 2024 at 09:31 AM

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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

I found the 42MP vs 61MP resolution and contrast comparison test: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1613747/

Aug 15, 2024 at 09:36 AM

highdesertmesa
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

Fred Miranda wrote:
Here’s my take on the resolution test. I was pleasantly surprised by the performance of the CV 50/3.5 APO, especially since I had already reviewed and shared the MTF graphs. I expected to see slightly lower resolution and contrast off-axis, but that wasn’t the case at all. And yes, I made sure to test with 'real' lenses.

Another thing to note is that I have two perfectly centered lenses, and the CV 50/2 APO is my personal lens, cherry-picked from a batch, so I'm pretty confident I'm testing optimal copies.

As for switching to a higher-resolution sensor, I don't think...Show more →

A potential difference in moving from 40 to 60 in this case is the change from an FSI sensor to a BSI sensor with an updated coverglass/IR-UV cut filter (which I believe was vaguely mentioned by a Leica higher-up in one of the long interview videos from the M11 launch day (IIRC) ). Did they also update the microlens array on the M11? It's a completely different sensor from the M10-R, so likely they adjusted it in some way. All speculation, but there is potential for improvement outside the simple change in resolution.

Aug 15, 2024 at 10:01 AM

Fred Miranda
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

highdesertmesa wrote:
A potential difference in moving from 40 to 60 in this case is the change from an FSI sensor to a BSI sensor with an updated coverglass/IR-UV cut filter (which I believe was vaguely mentioned by a Leica higher-up in one of the long interview videos from the M11 launch day (IIRC) ). Did they also update the microlens array on the M11? It's a completely different sensor from the M10-R, so likely they adjusted it in some way. All speculation, but there is potential for improvement outside the simple change in resolution.

I'm possibly getting an M11 loan from Leica, so I'll be doing the same comparison with a higher megapixel body. You guys are keeping me busy!
Based on my past experiences, I don't anticipate much change in off-axis performance.

Aug 15, 2024 at 10:18 AM

goodbokeh
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

Given my experience with the Leica 40MP (M10-R & M), Sony 42MP (A7R3) & 60MP sensors (A7R5 & M11-P) I'll be interested in your findings Fred. I'll just say I didn't buy my M11-P because of sensor IQ improvements.

I wonder if it was perceived bad marketing spin that explains why another company didn't pickup Sony's 42MP BSI sensor. It was such a sweet spot in overall performance. With the 60MP sensor now being 5 years old will it age as gracefully...

Aug 15, 2024 at 12:27 PM

highdesertmesa
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

goodbokeh wrote:
Given my experience with the Leica 40MP (M10-R & M), Sony 42MP (A7R3) & 60MP sensors (A7R5 & M11-P) I'll be interested in your findings Fred. I'll just say I didn't buy my M11-P because of sensor IQ improvements.

I wonder if it was perceived bad marketing spin that explains why another company didn't pickup Sony's 42MP BSI sensor. It was such a sweet spot in overall performance. With the 60MP sensor now being 5 years old will it age as gracefully...

I think the current A7R5, M11, and GFX 100II/100SII base sensors are an updated version of the A7R4 sensor. Same base silicon, but hardware was updated. Not sure what improvements were made, and a lot of it depends on how the various manufacturers tweaked the design. For example, Fujifilm says the same 100mp sensor from the 100/100S has better corner performance in the 100II/100SII iteration – I'm assuming that's a microlens design change, but I don't know for sure.

60mp for 35mm and 100mp for 44x33 is the sweet spot right now to me, simply for the reason that aliasing is much reduced. Depending on how that manifests itself in an image, it can be really annoying to fix and/or work around.

Aug 15, 2024 at 01:00 PM

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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

Back to Quick Links

Samples 3

These portraits were captured at close and mid distances with the lens fully open. A few have been slightly cropped, and all were edited in Lightroom using the Adobe Standard Profile. One of the images was converted to black and white.

All photos were shot with the Leica M10-R, and I used the rangefinder to focus each one. Natural lighting was used for all shots.

LEICA M10-R Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar lens 50mm f/2.8 1/90s 100 ISO 0.0 EV

LEICA M10-R Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar lens 50mm f/2.8 1/90s 125 ISO 0.0 EV

LEICA M10-R Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar lens 50mm f/3.4 1/60s 125 ISO 0.0 EV

LEICA M10-R Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar lens 50mm f/3.4 1/125s 100 ISO 0.0 EV

LEICA M10-R Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar lens 50mm f/5.6 1/60s 125 ISO 0.0 EV

Aug 15, 2024 at 04:40 PM

highdesertmesa
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

Fred Miranda wrote:
Samples 3

These portraits were captured at close and mid distances with the lens fully open. A few have been slightly cropped, and all were edited in Lightroom using the Adobe Standard Profile. One of the images was converted to black and white.

All photos were shot with the Leica M10-R, and I used the rangefinder to focus each one. Natural lighting was used for all shots.

Nice, this reminds me so much of the CV 50 f/2 APO wide open. I think we can say the f/3.5 version can replace the f/2 if the extra light isn't needed.

Aug 15, 2024 at 05:20 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

highdesertmesa wrote:
Nice, this reminds me so much of the CV 50 f/2 APO wide open. I think we can say the f/3.5 version can replace the f/2 if the extra light isn't needed.

I'll start rendering soon, but based on what I've seen so far, your summary is spot on. Despite their different optical designs, the resolution, contrast, and rendering of both lenses are very similar. Cosina’s optical designers are clearly very talented.

Mechanically, the CV 50/2 APO has a more complex aperture system with 12 blades and rounded apertures at f/2, f/2.8, and f/5.6. In contrast, the CV 50/3.5 APO has 10 blades and only produces a rounded aperture at f/3.5. However, the CV 50/3.5 APO produces defined sunstars from f/4 to f/16, while the CV 50/2 APO does not offer defined sunstars at f/2.8, f/5.6 and f/16 due to its multiple rounded apertures.

Aug 15, 2024 at 05:53 PM

highdesertmesa
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p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

Fred Miranda wrote:
I'll start rendering soon, but based on what I've seen so far, your summary is spot on. Despite their different optical designs, the resolution, contrast, and rendering of both lenses are very similar. Cosina’s optical designers are clearly very talented.

Mechanically, the CV 50/2 APO has a more complex aperture system with 12 blades and rounded apertures at f/2, f/2.8, and f/5.6. In contrast, the CV 50/3.5 APO has 10 blades and only produces a rounded aperture at f/3.5. However, the CV 50/3.5 APO starts generating defined sunstars from f/4 to f/16, while the CV 50/2 APO doesn’t produce sunstars...Show more →

Imagine what Cosina could come up with if they made a trio of APO lenses for the GFX/X2D!

Aug 15, 2024 at 06:45 PM

philip_pj
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p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

How this remarkable prime lens goes in the market place will be fascinating to watch, particularly the Leica M user group. Cosina has found a niche that it owns. Competition does not exist.

It's almost an anti-lens in a world of super specified optics. And you have to think, seeing the results also from the 50/2.2, they have made (much) more progress in their APD glasswork. Thes portraits above are just lovely.

Aug 15, 2024 at 06:46 PM

highdesertmesa
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p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

Fred, if you do a rendering comparison between the two 50 APOs, it would be really cool to add the 50 f/2 at f/2.8 versus the f/3.5 wide open, which would be the nearest-equal apertures where they both have a round opening.

Aug 15, 2024 at 06:50 PM

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p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

The thing I love about this lens and the 50 2.2 CS is you stop with the ridiculous bokeh obsession and the only one eye lash in focus wide open thing.
You just go make killer images easily as hitting focus at 2.2 /3.5 is much quicker and easier than at 1.4.

Aug 15, 2024 at 07:06 PM

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p.4 #17 · p.4 #17 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

Desmolicious wrote:
The thing I love about this lens and the 50 2.2 CS is you stop with the ridiculous bokeh obsession and the only one eye lash in focus wide open thing.
You just go make killer images easily as hitting focus at 2.2 /3.5 is much quicker and easier than at 1.4.

A piece of the puzzle is that until recent times ... that extra stop or two of light (Cron / Lux / Nok) was a bit more meaningful for exposures due to the penalties in IQ as you climbed the ISO range. Now, those two stops of ISO diff are much less detrimental / critical for a lot of applications, and if the usability wide open is valid (as it seems to be), then you're in good shape. Film shooters might still want the faster glass, for some applications though.

Personally, I rarely shoot my 40 Cron-C wide open at f/2 ... a smidge longer at 50, but as a possible contemporary update that is in the "small but mighty" ... that 2.2 and 3.5 are interesting arrivals. I like the move away from aspherical, for rendering.

Just when I thought I'd like the 50/1.5 Vintage II ... now, even more choices.

Aug 15, 2024 at 07:51 PM

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p.4 #18 · p.4 #18 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

Aug 15, 2024 at 07:57 PM

RustyBug
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p.4 #19 · p.4 #19 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

Fred Miranda wrote:
I think that lenses with extremely high resolution and contrast, free from color errors, can isolate a subject even at f/2.8 or f/3.5. It’s also a more natural isolation without relying on extreme blur, resulting in a distinct and unique look.

Particularly, depending on how the lens transitions from Zone A > B > C. And, even though the BG may not be obliterated, it still provides "relaxed context".

Aug 15, 2024 at 08:22 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.4 #20 · p.4 #20 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

RustyBug wrote:
Particularly, depending on how the lens transitions from Zone A > B > C. And, even though the BG may not be obliterated, it still provides "relaxed context".

Exactly. Despite its slower maximum aperture, the CV 50/3.5 APO provides subject isolation thanks to its smooth transition zone, exceptional performance, and aberration control.

Aug 15, 2024 at 08:32 PM

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