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Dynamic Range R5ii vs R5

  
 
Scott Stoness
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Dynamic Range R5ii vs R5


biggles2002 wrote:
Check out DPReview

Canon EOS R5II Studio scene shows expected speed/DR tradeoff

in those test R5II seems alot worse than R5
Similar trade-offs as Nikon Z6III


I was puzzled because there was no R5ii review to find studio review. But then I went into R8 studio and chose R5II and there it was in the comparison. Not sure it is reliable but it does show R5 (mech) with better resolution than R5 (EFCS or electronic). Here is iso 25,600 ISO. Its not dramatic at lower iso's but it is at 25k.









Aug 06, 2024 at 04:37 PM
PhilH
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Dynamic Range R5ii vs R5


artsupreme wrote:
Those are two very good reasons to get rid of the in-camera NR


I have a layered hunch, but at higher ISO ratings the images appear to be slightly more "toothy" and detailed. I did some light tests, but going into the lab next week to figure it out.

Something pretty interesting at say ISO 3200 in comparison. It's subtle, but detectable.




Aug 06, 2024 at 06:13 PM
cope07
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Dynamic Range R5ii vs R5


From what I am seeing, I think the R5ii has a better shadow lift.

For context I am a Nikon D850 shooter as it has the most flexible file I have found in FF cameras (including Z7/Z8 A7RV, A1, R5, etc). I wanted to switch to the R5 (great AF and a lovely 50/1.2) but I found the shadows muddy and lacking color when lifted (honestly it reminded me of my Fuji X-Pro3), sometimes also shifting magenta.

BUT it appears (while maybe slightly grainier) that the R5ii has much better color retention with lifted shadows, which I find quite exciting and much more important. To me it looks on par with the A7rV. I don't know how the highlight end of the DR curve is, but the shadow end looks like a big improvement.


https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr134_0=canon_eosr5ii&attr134_1=canon_eosr5&attr134_2=sony_a7rv&attr134_3=nikon_d850&attr136_0=1&attr136_1=1&attr136_2=1&attr136_3=26&attr176_0=efc&attr176_1=efc&attr176_2=efc&attr176_3=efc&normalization=full&widget=923&x=-0.7414910256745451&y=-0.5599028768973703









Aug 06, 2024 at 07:08 PM
armd
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Dynamic Range R5ii vs R5


Just looked at the test images in RAW and to my eye, it is a little better than the Z8 up until 1600-3200 and afterwards they are pretty comparable. Just a tad noisier than the R5 which was expected. The Z8 appears slightly sharper in some areas and I don’t know if this is attributable to the lack of a low pass filter, the lens, or RAW interpolation. The test scene results are pretty much in line with what I expected and the bottom line is the R5II is fine.


Aug 06, 2024 at 07:18 PM
bernardl
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Dynamic Range R5ii vs R5


artsupreme wrote:
R5 = red
Z8 = Yellow

I do not expect the R5II to be better than the R5 but we'll see. And isn't this where people say Canon cheats on their RAW files which means this isn't an apples to apples caparison anyway?


Yes, indeed. All the measuring points with a triangle are completely meaningless. We don't know what the actual DR value at those ISO is.

Cheers,
Bernard





Aug 06, 2024 at 08:57 PM
Jman13
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Dynamic Range R5ii vs R5


I was curious how the R5 II stacked up against the Z8 for pushed files when set to its base ISO of 64, since DPR chose 100 for this, but it's max DR is at 64. As well as the Z7 II (roughly same sensor as the D850), and the original R5. Looking at the crops, you can see that the R5 II is the worst of the bunch in shadow noise, but it's not some massively huge difference. Real world, no one would notice 99.9% of the time.

I will say even though it's noisier, I too prefer the R5 II look to the original R5...less color shift, and it does look like Canon has cut out the baked in NR on the RAW file, or if they haven't, it's better and less obtrusive...despite the extra noise the R5 II holds detail better, and you can clearly see the NR damaging detail in the original R5 shot. Both Nikons look better to me, but the difference isn't game changing or anything.







Aug 07, 2024 at 09:33 AM
numbertwo
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Dynamic Range R5ii vs R5


Jman13 wrote:
I was curious how the R5 II stacked up against the Z8 for pushed files when set to its base ISO of 64, since DPR chose 100 for this, but it's max DR is at 64. As well as the Z7 II (roughly same sensor as the D850), and the original R5. Looking at the crops, you can see that the R5 II is the worst of the bunch in shadow noise, but it's not some massively huge difference. Real world, no one would notice 99.9% of the time.

I will say even though it's noisier, I too prefer the R5
...Show more

Please download the files and judge in Lightroom yourself.
What’s showing as raw there is the image that DPReview developed when R5 was released. There was a big for the R5 that messed up the color noise reduction. Later on it was fixed and that’s not happening anymore. R5 raws are not smeared like that when pushed (but the magenta shift still remains).

Download the raws and judge yourself side by side.



Aug 07, 2024 at 10:54 AM
Scott Stoness
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Dynamic Range R5ii vs R5


Jman13 wrote:
I was curious how the R5 II stacked up against the Z8 for pushed files when set to its base ISO of 64, since DPR chose 100 for this, but it's max DR is at 64. As well as the Z7 II (roughly same sensor as the D850), and the original R5. Looking at the crops, you can see that the R5 II is the worst of the bunch in shadow noise, but it's not some massively huge difference. Real world, no one would notice 99.9% of the time.

I will say even though it's noisier, I too prefer the R5
...Show more

Personally I don't much care Nikon vs Canon. I have too much sunk into canon big white and TSE lens, to warrant switching for modest improvements. But what I do see is that R5 has better resolution but poorer colour cast in the pictures. I wonder whether the adobe raw converter is the weakness. But in any event, at plus 6 stops (super dark) they are pretty close, with neither being better colour offsetting resolution.
[I wonder if the R5 or R5ii might be better at mechanical vs EFCS.]

I also see that R5ii shutter is a bit better than R5, using the studio comparisons. So the 14 bit makes electronic better.

I any event, this analysis ticks off the "well at least it (r5ii) did not get worse (r5) - but it did not get any better, just different..

So now I need to go back to - is 30fps, settable electronic fps, 14bit electronic, AEB in electronic, pre capture in separate files, bit better A/F - worth buying.
-







Aug 07, 2024 at 02:19 PM
AmbientMike
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Dynamic Range R5ii vs R5




If they managed to keep the DR the same going to a stacked sensor, that's pretty good imo. Stacked sensors aren't known to help DR, AFAIK



Aug 07, 2024 at 03:57 PM
cope07
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Dynamic Range R5ii vs R5


It seems like maybe the switch to BSI helped offset the detriment of a stacked sensor.


Aug 07, 2024 at 06:06 PM
 


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Scott Stoness
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Dynamic Range R5ii vs R5


Photophotons has R5II dynamic range tests now.
https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm

It shows:
R5 is about 1/3 stop better at ISO 100 for mechanical mode.
R5ii electronic is about a 1/3 stop better to iso 800
They R5 and R5II are pretty close beyond iso 800
There are some weird gaps at iso 400 (R5 1 stop better) - dual gain kicks in at 800 (R5II0 vs 400 (r5)?

So some good news and some bad news.

My conclusion is that if you are buying a canon mirrorless and are primarily dedicated to landscape, the R5 is better. Lessor price and better dynamic range in EFCS.

For others, just based on dynamic range, they are pretty close and the 14bit electronic, changeable fps, precapture, 30fps... are likely make the R5ii better but whether its worth $000's and new batteries based on the differences depends on whether you are action or video focussed.







Aug 12, 2024 at 11:57 AM
lighthound
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Dynamic Range R5ii vs R5


This is great news!
Other than price there is zero reason to buy the R5 over the R5II. 1/3 stop difference at base ISO is a non issue for all types of shooting in today's PP world.

It would have been nice if they could've pushed the dual gain out to 800 but I guess 500 is better than a pointy stick in the eye.



Aug 12, 2024 at 04:00 PM
rscheffler
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Dynamic Range R5ii vs R5


Scott Stoness wrote:
Photophotons has R5II dynamic range tests now.
https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm

It shows:


That Canon is still applying NR to R5II raw files. Surprised the Canon critics haven't swooped in yet to tell us.



Aug 13, 2024 at 10:49 AM
molson
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Dynamic Range R5ii vs R5


rscheffler wrote:
That Canon is still applying NR to R5II raw files. Surprised the Canon critics haven't swooped in yet to tell us.


Don't worry, the rest of the Nikon trolls will sniff this out in no time, especially because the new sensor still outperforms the Z8 and Z9.



Aug 13, 2024 at 11:21 AM
arbitrage
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Dynamic Range R5ii vs R5


rscheffler wrote:
That Canon is still applying NR to R5II raw files. Surprised the Canon critics haven't swooped in yet to tell us.


They've taken it up a notch...R5 only did this below ISO 800. R5II doing it across the board.
Supposedly Bill says it isn't as aggressive in the R5II as the R5 so that is a positive I guess.



Aug 13, 2024 at 09:08 PM
arbitrage
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Dynamic Range R5ii vs R5


molson wrote:
Don't worry, the rest of the Nikon trolls will sniff this out in no time, especially because the new sensor still outperforms the Z8 and Z9.


Maybe with the R5III they will out perform the GOAT (aka "The One")



Aug 13, 2024 at 09:11 PM
_Refraction
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Dynamic Range R5ii vs R5


arbitrage wrote:
They've taken it up a notch...R5 only did this below ISO 800. R5II doing it across the board.
Supposedly Bill says it isn't as aggressive in the R5II as the R5 so that is a positive I guess.


I saw Bill's comment on that too. Will be interesting to see an R5 vs R5 II ISO comparison with the same lens for fine detail in a bunch of different scenarios, to see if there's a visual difference in the level of built-in noise reduction. But I saw a separate thread on DPR where someone worked out that:

It looks like the R5m2 got a symmetrical AA/OLPF filter, whereas the R5 has an asymmetrical filter applied to vertical edges only. The strength of the filter in each provisioned axis appears to be similar between the R5 & R5m2 - see here DPreview thread

So if there's a bit more AA/smoothing going on for horizontal edges, that will be difficult/impossible to tell apart visually from noise reduction. I suspect...or rather hope since I've confirmed my preorder for next week...that net net the reduced NR and the increased AA filtration leave the R5II output in the same place as the R5.




Aug 14, 2024 at 02:57 AM
Hathaway
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Dynamic Range R5ii vs R5


My conclusion from these results was I will stick with my R5 and hope for a future higher MP body or save a bit for another RF lens. I don’t need the stellar speed and focusing ability of the R5II typically so am good with what I have.

If I were an R1 prospective buyer or R3 owner I would seriously consider swapping out to the R5 II unless you work under the most extreme conditions and are shooting 300K plus images a year.



Aug 14, 2024 at 09:00 AM
fgphoto
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Dynamic Range R5ii vs R5


The one thing I wonder is if these studio shots were with pre-production firmware or not. There have been a number of times that pre-production firmware and actual shipping firmware differed in image quality.


Aug 14, 2024 at 11:14 AM
alundeb
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Dynamic Range R5ii vs R5




fgphoto wrote:
The one thing I wonder is if these studio shots were with pre-production firmware or not. There have been a number of times that pre-production firmware and actual shipping firmware differed in image quality.

This precaution is mentioned every time, but I have yet to see one single example of the image quality actually being different between pre-prod and prod cameras. What indeed does differ, is the raw converters used for the early tests, it is more the rule than the exception that visual test results from raw files are out before the camera profile is finalized in the raw converters.



Aug 15, 2024 at 12:31 AM
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