RoamingScott wrote:
Those rumored specs would be a nice middle ground for people who don't want the Z8 but want great non-stacked performance. Sounds like it would find a place nicely between the ZF ($2000) and Z8 ($3000) somewhere around $2500.
To me that basically nukes the idea of a Z7iii because good luck convincing anyone to pay more than 3K for a camera that is worse in every way except megapixels to the Z8.
I don't think it matters if the Z6iii and Z8 work out to roughly the same price, because many potential Z6iii buyers would never buy the Z8 no matter what because 1) they don't want the form factor and 2) see 1 again....Show more →
Yupp, that is me. I don't want the size + weight of the Z8, and I want a flip screen (preferably a four-way). Now my problem is that I want stacked sensor and more than 24 MP :-) So Canon R5 Mk II seems to fit the bill, but I don't want Canon RF lens line up. Sony a7R5 is perhaps the closest with excellent lens options, but I don't really need a super slow readout 61 MP sensor, less than stellar ergs + UI, and an EVF that drops res to nearly unviewable when you tracking with AF-C.
patotts wrote:
Well, it is not random for them to strictly observe Jewish holidays.
I'm speaking as a practicing consumer, not a practicing Jew The point is a 3 day weekend is small potatoes for B&H when their checkout is routinely closed for a week at a time.
This makes no sense to me where he writes "Price: around 3,000 in Europe (less in the US)"
Since the Euro stands at 1.08 USD, that makes it around $3269 USD which is "less" than the Z8 but that's now Z7 II money when it was announced. I think this is a HUGE miss, because in this category, no one is going to pay $3200 for a Z6 even if it had a stacked sensor. There is no way.
ArizonaImage wrote:
This makes no sense to me where he writes "Price: around 3,000 in Europe (less in the US)"
Since the Euro stands at 1.08 USD, that makes it around $3269 USD which is "less" than the Z8 but that's now Z7 II money when it was announced. I think this is a HUGE miss, because in this category, no one is going to pay $3200 for a Z6 even if it had a stacked sensor. There is no way.
Europe has a bunch of VAT fees that make their retail prices a lot higher than the US. There is no straight USD to Euro conversion.
If VAT is deducted, the prices are generally in similar ranges.
VAT is usually in the range of 19-20%, depending on the EU country.
3000 RRP would therefore roughly amount to a US RRP of $2500-2600.
Basically, it's almost always the same, the US price is roughly the same as the EU price minus VAT.
At least directly at the time of release, the currency difference is usually ignored, i.e. often 1:1 EU price - VAT = US price.
Over time, however, the tendency tends to be for EU prices to be somewhat cheaper.
For example, I can get a Nikon Z 400/4.5 or a Nikon Z 135 Plena in the EU including 19% VAT for the US price without VAT.
Z8 RRP in the EU/Germany is currently 4,479.00, current price on the official Nikon site due to the current discount campaign is 3,979.00.
The price already includes 19% VAT.
Nikon USA Z8 RRP is $3,999.95, current promotional price at Nikon USA, $3,499.95.
RoamingScott wrote:
Europe has a bunch of VAT fees that make their retail prices a lot higher than the US. There is no straight USD to Euro conversion.
Vento wrote:
If VAT is deducted, the prices are generally in similar ranges.
VAT is usually in the range of 19-20%, depending on the EU country.
3000 RRP would therefore roughly amount to a US RRP of $2500-2600.
Basically, it's almost always the same, the US price is roughly the same as the EU price minus VAT.
At least directly at the time of release, the currency difference is usually ignored, i.e. often 1:1 EU price - VAT = US price.
Over time, however, the tendency tends to be for EU prices to be somewhat cheaper.
For example, I can get a Nikon Z 400/4.5 or a Nikon Z 135 Plena in the EU including 19% VAT for the US price without VAT.
Z8 RRP in the EU/Germany is currently 4,479.00, current price on the official Nikon site due to the current discount campaign is 3,979.00.
The price already includes 19% VAT.
Nikon USA Z8 RRP is $3,999.95, current promotional price at Nikon USA, $3,499.95.
The moral of the story - go to Europe and claim a VAT refund at the airport . Works for luxury goods, not sure if it works for electronis. How do I know? Wait, let me take a look inside my wife's closet
GroovyGeek wrote:
The moral of the story - go to Europe and claim a VAT refund at the airport . Works for luxury goods, not sure if it works for electronis. How do I know? Wait, let me take a look inside my wife's closet
Yes it works with camera equipment. I bought some stuff at Leica Store Florence, Italy when the Italian tax authority was giving bonuses toward the end of Covid. I got a very nice refund on the way out of Italy. Along with a Dollar at near par at the time it made things less expensive for me there than here.
RoamingScott wrote:
Europe has a bunch of VAT fees that make their retail prices a lot higher than the US.
Yes, so if you, or a man from Mali, come to Italy and someone shoots you, or you have a heart attack, you will be treated for free (sine 1978). No credit card, no insurance required. Our 22% VAT is the price of civilization we're proud of.
ArizonaImage wrote:
This makes no sense to me where he writes "Price: around 3,000 in Europe (less in the US)"
Since the Euro stands at 1.08 USD, that makes it around $3269 USD which is "less" than the Z8 but that's now Z7 II money when it was announced. I think this is a HUGE miss, because in this category, no one is going to pay $3200 for a Z6 even if it had a stacked sensor. There is no way.
If it has a stacked sensor, it's basically competing with the Sony A9 series and Canon R3, so definitely people would be paying more for it.
However, it is unlikely that Nikon would make the Z6 III have such a high spec, as they need something in the 2k price class that is competitive.
Ripolini wrote:
Yes, so if you, or a man from Mali, come to Italy and someone shoots you, or you have a heart attack, you will be treated for free (sine 1978). No credit card, no insurance required. Our 22% VAT is the price of civilization we're proud of.
Hey, no need to put us down. We have our own slice of civilization - a near mandatory 22% tip practically everywhere these days. It ensures that no restauranteur goes home hungry, because they can underpay their staff severely and hide the true cost of doing business.
GroovyGeek wrote:
Hey, no need to put us down. We have our own slice of civilization - a near mandatory 22% tip practically everywhere these days. It ensures that no restauranteur goes home hungry, because they can underpay their staff severely and hide the true cost of doing business.
Same thing, right? Right?....
You also have to pay for health care, day care, and school which many EU citizens get for free or at relatively low cast (paid from the VAT and other taxes). It's just a different economic system that has its upsides and downsides.
ilkka_nissila wrote:
You also have to pay for health care, day care, and school which many EU citizens get for free or at relatively low cast (paid from the VAT and other taxes). It's just a different economic system that has its upsides and downsides.
I'd prefer to talk about different political systems, rather than different economic systems, since we don't have socialism in Europe.
The problem, in my opinion, is to understand how far the private capitalist production system can go to favor the wealthier classes and oppress the less wealthy, who are not always less wealthy by their own choice, but by choices made by politicians funded by the wealthier ones...
Of course that same man from Mali suffering that same medical emergency would also get treated in the U,S, for free.
Government School in the US is also free for everyone. There are also day care programs. Most of these kinds of services are indexed progressively to income.
Being a citizen of both Italy and the US I see both sides. My family and I are going for our traditional month in Europe next week.
Buying camera or lenses from Nikon, Canon or Sony in e.g. Europe or Asia doesn't work as well as you think. All these companies provide 1 or 2 years (limited) REGIONAL warranty. That European warrant is not valid in the US, so if you encounter issues, you will have to pay out of pocket to fix. In my view, that chance is not worth the dollars of potential savings.
Only Leica provides global warranty, to the best of my knowledge.
Regardless of MSRP with or without VAT - I am curious about the used camera prices. For many other goods, e.g. luxury watches, MSRPs might be different depending on VAT and currency values, but used prices harmonize. Is it the same for cameras? A minty used Nikon Z8 sells for $2,900-$3,100 here in the US - how much is the same in Europe?
patotts wrote:
Buying camera or lenses from Nikon, Canon or Sony in e.g. Europe or Asia doesn't work as well as you think. All these companies provide 1 or 2 years (limited) REGIONAL warranty. That European warrant is not valid in the US, so if you encounter issues, you will have to pay out of pocket to fix. In my view, that chance is not worth the dollars of potential savings.
Only Leica provides global warranty, to the best of my knowledge.
I've been burned by Nikon by purchasing a USA camera in the USA from an authorized Nikon dealer, and having warranty denied in Europe when I had a problem on vacation. I traveled to the main office of Nikon-Hungary in Budapest, who had no interest in helping me. They were every bit as dismissive as Nikon USA is when asked to service gray market equipment.
patotts wrote:
Buying camera or lenses from Nikon, Canon or Sony in e.g. Europe or Asia doesn't work as well as you think. All these companies provide 1 or 2 years (limited) REGIONAL warranty. That European warrant is not valid in the US, so if you encounter issues, you will have to pay out of pocket to fix. In my view, that chance is not worth the dollars of potential savings.
Only Leica provides global warranty, to the best of my knowledge.
Regardless of MSRP with or without VAT - I am curious about the used camera prices. For many other goods, e.g. luxury watches, MSRPs might be different depending on VAT and currency values, but used prices harmonize. Is it the same for cameras? A minty used Nikon Z8 sells for $2,900-$3,100 here in the US - how much is the same in Europe? ...Show more →
In Japan the price of second hand Z8 is only 300 US$ cheaper than new launch street price.
I dont remember ever seeing a 1+ year old camera selling for this high a price second hand.
The point is a 3 day weekend is small potatoes for B&H when their checkout is routinely closed for a week at a time.
. Works for luxury goods, not sure if it works for electronis. How do I know? Wait, let me take a look inside my wife's closet