Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Leica & Alternative Gear | Join Upload & Sell

1       2              4       end
  

Panasonic Announces Ultra-Compact Full-Frame LUMIX S9

  
 
chiron
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Panasonic Announces Ultra-Compact Full-Frame LUMIX S9


It's an interesting experiment in making things smaller. Might be a good street camera.

There does seem to be a bit of a bifurcation going on between getting large and hyper-capable and getting small while hanging on to as many features as possible.

I think the GFX cameras are a part of this. If you can get a medium frame sensor for about the same size and weight and a similar price as a full-featured full-frame like the Z8, there are more reasons to go medium format.



May 23, 2024 at 07:33 AM
LBJ2
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Panasonic Announces Ultra-Compact Full-Frame LUMIX S9


chiron wrote:
It's an interesting experiment in making things smaller. Might be a good street camera.

There does seem to be a bit of a bifurcation going on between getting large and hyper-capable and getting small while hanging on to as many features as possible.

I think the GFX cameras are a part of this. If you can get a medium frame sensor for about the same size and weight and a similar price as a full-featured full-frame like the Z8, there are more reasons to go medium format.


"...a bit of a bifurcation going on" Interesting perspective and good point IMO.



May 23, 2024 at 08:02 AM
esanchez
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Panasonic Announces Ultra-Compact Full-Frame LUMIX S9


Nikon makes the 26mm 2.8 pancake about the same size. why couldn't the lens been a 26mm 2.8 instead of F8. Don't know what Panasonic is thinking.


May 23, 2024 at 08:14 AM
LBJ2
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Panasonic Announces Ultra-Compact Full-Frame LUMIX S9


esanchez wrote:
Nikon makes the 26mm 2.8 pancake about the same size. why couldn't the lens been a 26mm 2.8 instead of F8. Don't know what Panasonic is thinking.


"Don't know what Panasonic is thinking." Maybe, "F/8 and Be There" ? AKA, easy-peasy 😎



Edited on May 23, 2024 at 08:28 AM · View previous versions



May 23, 2024 at 08:26 AM
bjhurley
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Panasonic Announces Ultra-Compact Full-Frame LUMIX S9


esanchez wrote:
Nikon makes the 26mm 2.8 pancake about the same size. why couldn't the lens been a 26mm 2.8 instead of F8. Don't know what Panasonic is thinking.


They wanted an "f8 and be there" lens (they mentioned this in their presentation); something that would be faster than autofocus and reliable for capturing quick shots when traveling without worrying about settings.



May 23, 2024 at 08:27 AM
Jman13
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Panasonic Announces Ultra-Compact Full-Frame LUMIX S9


This is the most baffling camera release in quite some time. It honestly looks like it's hamstrung for, well, everything.

For stills:
It's a full frame camera that only does 12 bit RAW, so dynamic range is going to be very similar to competing APS-C cameras that do pretty much everything better for less money or the same price.

The lack of a mechanical shutter coupled with a slow readout sensor means that for stills shooting it is basically only useful for outdoor natural light shooting of stationary subjects. That's a heck of a limitation for a $1,500 full frame body. Indoor shots will show banding at faster shutter speeds (the examples showing this on PetaPixel's review are atrocious.) Action shots will show massive rolling shutter. And it can't use a flash. At all. It is the most limited full-frame body I think I've ever seen.

For video, which many are arguing is its target market (though Panasonic says it's equally video and stills):

It has a limited recording time of just 15 minutes. If you shoot 4K 60, there's a huge crop. There's no headphone jack to be able to check audio levels. And there's still that rolling shutter. Now, it's better for video than it is for stills, but it's still not even that great of a video camera.

Why not just get a Fujifilm X-S20? The X-S20 is cheaper, fairly similar in size and weight, with better ergonomics, a significantly better stills package (and should be essentially the same DR, or even better than the S9 since the S5II in 14 bit is only very slightly better than the X-S20), and better video features too, with a much longer record limit, 4K 60 with a much smaller crop for their lenses, a headphone jack, and also has 6K open gate recording.

I just don't get it.



May 23, 2024 at 08:54 AM
Lerradinho
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Panasonic Announces Ultra-Compact Full-Frame LUMIX S9


I wonder if this possibly/potentially is the best 'databack' so far for users who want to shoot their old analog lenses on a modern FF body with IBIS. Of course best is very subjective, but I'm still going strong on my NEX5R instead of fully committing to the A7III (or any other available FF option so far) mainly due to weight and the feel of the camera in your hands when doing street photography. The S9 size and weight package is exciting and seems alot closer to the nimble NEX5R than the chunky A7III:

NEX5R: 276 g
S9: 350g
A7III: 650g

The S9 missing out on a viewfinder is a loss, but not a huge dealbreaker as you still have to use the screen if you want to nail critical focussing with manual lenses. The quality of the screen could have been much better though, a 2000+ peak nits 2k OLED screen like in those bang-for-your-buck Chinese smartphones would have been nice, but no we still run around with ancient left behind LCD screens...

If this comes down in price a bit, it would be a attractive option for a very niche group of analog lens stills shooters, but I wonder how big/often of an issue the electronic shutter can be?




May 23, 2024 at 08:57 AM
Jman13
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Panasonic Announces Ultra-Compact Full-Frame LUMIX S9


Itís 486g, not 350. And the only electronic shutter with this sensor can be a huge deal because it will have high rolling shutter for any moving subjects, canít use a flash at all, and will show banding indoors under artificial lighting.


May 23, 2024 at 09:20 AM
Desmolicious
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Panasonic Announces Ultra-Compact Full-Frame LUMIX S9


chiron wrote:
At f/8 and 26mm, it shouldn't be a problem.


Not an M lens. But sure I get what you are saying. Stick a wide angle lens on it, stop it down and you just need to be in the ball park. But usually when people adapt M lenses they are looking to use some of that wide open glory.



May 23, 2024 at 09:39 AM
chiron
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Panasonic Announces Ultra-Compact Full-Frame LUMIX S9


Desmolicious wrote:
Not an M lens. But sure I get what you are saying. Stick a wide angle lens on it, stop it down and you just need to be in the ball park. But usually when people adapt M lenses they are looking to use some of that wide open glory.


I don't think this is a camera designed for adapting M lenses.



May 23, 2024 at 09:44 AM
 


Search in Used Dept. 

bjhurley
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Panasonic Announces Ultra-Compact Full-Frame LUMIX S9


Jman13 wrote:
Why not just get a Fujifilm X-S20? The X-S20 is cheaper, fairly similar in size and weight, with better ergonomics, a significantly better stills package (and should be essentially the same DR, or even better than the S9 since the S5II in 14 bit is only very slightly better than the X-S20), and better video features too, with a much longer record limit, 4K 60 with a much smaller crop for their lenses, a headphone jack, and also has 6K open gate recording.

I just don't get it.


I'm not trying to defend this camera, but it's worth thinking about why Panasonic brought it out after (hopefully) a lot of market research and testing with the target users: this not a camera for photographers and videographers. It's for people who shoot with their phones but want something with better image quality, but that is just as simple as a phone and just as fast for sharing. No post-processing, just slap on a LUT. Take a photo or video and with the integrated app you can post it to social media a few minutes later, just like you can with your phone. If anyone buys this camera, it's mainly going to be those people.

When I go to concerts, I see everyone taking photos and videos with their phones and putting them on Instagram during the event. The "real" photographers' and videographers' images don't usually show up until the next day or even later. Same goes for travel: people shoot photos and videos with their phones and post them almost instantly. People like you and me who use real cameras have to wait to get back to the hotel or AirBnB, fire up the computer, post-process, and then post. The cell phone folks don't want to wait that long, but some of them would like their images/video to stand out a bit with better quality, but still with the same simplicity and speed as you get from a cellphone.

This is a social media camera, first and foremost, and a fashion accessory (it comes in almost as many colors as an iPhone 15). But I doubt many people will want to spend this much on a camera that does what their phone already does, only with somewhat better image quality. I dunno, cameras are cool, and everyone has a cellphone but not everyone has a camera, so maybe this has an identity appeal too. We'll have to see if it's a total flop but I can't imagine it'll be too popular.



May 23, 2024 at 09:57 AM
highdesertmesa
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Panasonic Announces Ultra-Compact Full-Frame LUMIX S9


Jman13 wrote:
This is the most baffling camera release in quite some time. It honestly looks like it's hamstrung for, well, everything.

For stills:
It's a full frame camera that only does 12 bit RAW, so dynamic range is going to be very similar to competing APS-C cameras that do pretty much everything better for less money or the same price.

The lack of a mechanical shutter coupled with a slow readout sensor means that for stills shooting it is basically only useful for outdoor natural light shooting of stationary subjects. That's a heck of a limitation for a $1,500 full frame
...Show more

If they've limited RAW to 12-bit, that means they've probably increased the sensor readout speed over the S5II.



May 23, 2024 at 11:28 AM
LBJ2
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Panasonic Announces Ultra-Compact Full-Frame LUMIX S9


bjhurley wrote:
I'm not trying to defend this camera, but it's worth thinking about why Panasonic brought it out after (hopefully) a lot of market research and testing with the target users: this not a camera for photographers and videographers. It's for people who shoot with their phones but want something with better image quality, but that is just as simple as a phone and just as fast for sharing. No post-processing, just slap on a LUT. Take a photo or video and with the integrated app you can post it to social media a few minutes later, just like you can
...Show more

Exactly, there's another world out there for some years now utilizing video/photography to have fun their own way mainly immediate sharing or even to produce professional grade deliverables up to IG or TikTok etc on the spot--long before I get back to a computer to cull, edit and then share ha ha.

I shoot seasonal events every year and I always meet up with several traditional photographers as usual but there are many talented vloggers and live streamers alongside doing their thing too. BTW, none of the latter looking through EVFs to capture the same action/ scenes I do with an EVF.

If Panasonic can penetrate this ever growing segment to any degree with something like the S9, I'm sure to see it in the coming months.



May 23, 2024 at 12:03 PM
bjhurley
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Panasonic Announces Ultra-Compact Full-Frame LUMIX S9


LBJ2 wrote:
Exactly, there's another world out there for some years now utilizing video/photography to have fun their own way mainly immediate sharing or even to produce professional grade deliverables up to IG or TikTok etc on the spot--long before I get back to a computer to cull, edit and then share ha ha.


If you watch the S9 launch event by Panasonic, that was pretty much all they focused on in terms of the features and purpose of this camera: fast sharing to social media with more flexibility/creativity and better image quality than a phone. I'm not sure about the "more creativity," as there are tons of creative looks that you can apply to a phone image right on the phone itself (e.g., Hipstamatic, which I use a lot), but there's no denying the better image quality and flexibility to use more lenses.



May 23, 2024 at 12:07 PM
LBJ2
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Panasonic Announces Ultra-Compact Full-Frame LUMIX S9


bjhurley wrote:
If you watch the S9 launch event by Panasonic, that was pretty much all they focused on in terms of the features and purpose of this camera: fast sharing to social media with more flexibility/creativity and better image quality than a phone. I'm not sure about the "more creativity," as there are tons of creative looks that you can apply to a phone image right on the phone itself (e.g., Hipstamatic, which I use a lot), but there's no denying the better image quality and flexibility to use more lenses.


Yes and IMO S9's "MP4 Lite" is a big hint of the target audience that IMO sailed right over many of our traditional photographer heads

"The LUMIX S9 also introduces a new recording format: MP4 Lite. Shooting Open Gate in 4:2:0 10 bit in 30p/25p, creators can capture high quality videos in the optimum format for smartphone, and easily resize aspect ratios to suit social media with the LUMIX Lab app."



May 23, 2024 at 12:14 PM
Jman13
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Panasonic Announces Ultra-Compact Full-Frame LUMIX S9


highdesertmesa wrote:
If they've limited RAW to 12-bit, that means they've probably increased the sensor readout speed over the S5II.


Eh, if you look at this sample shot from PetaPixel, you can see at least 5 full cycles of light flicker during the exposure. They were in Kyoto, which is 60Hz, so that means the sensor was reading out at around 1/25s, which is pretty awful.



May 23, 2024 at 12:18 PM
nehemiahphoto
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Panasonic Announces Ultra-Compact Full-Frame LUMIX S9


freaklikeme wrote:
It feels about as desperate as the ZV-E1. "Please, content creators, put aside your phones and buy our cameras and lenses! Trust us. They're better. Look at all that beautiful bokeh!"

I'll be surprised if the LUT button and customization options are the big selling points Panasonic's marketing wants them to be. I haven't touched one, so I'm trying not to judge too harshly, but this feels more like a curiosity that will find a weirdly dedicated fanbase who will complain loudly when Panasonic gives up on it.


Yes. And to be honest, I think, with some of the AI auto framing features, AF and longer recording limits and the wider lens selection of both Sony and 3rd party (specifically Tamron) the ZV-E1 does better at the same job. Not that either will be successful. Itís hard for me to understand how attractive LUTís areósome shooters, especially these types, lean on presets/LUTs and a certain ďcoolĒ and ďvintageĒ vibe. As far as mobility and quasi-automating the workflow, this is just another missed (I think) attempt from manufactures trying to penetrate a market it doesnít seem like they understand.

This is coming out it from the video side, whereas the ZX1 was coming out of it from the photo side.

What surprises me about all these cameras, is no internal hard drive/memory card yet, and while the workflows are getting more streamlined for content that needs to be turned out immediately, I just cannot believe somebody does not super size an iPhone. Literally.

Just make a tablet/phone, completely touchscreen, put on a moderate prime lens (28/2.8 should be small but good enough), make it high enough MP, give it slow-mo and macro-ish (just like an iphone has). And most importantly, give it the iphone (or android, but I donít know/use androids) connectivity. if I take six 30 second to four minute videos, I should be able to airdrop text or upload them instantly from the device that I shot them with.

You could even go APS-C. Iíve been shooting a big music festival for the last 10 years. Each year you see more and more videos being turned out with iPhones. Even though they were a whole video crews.

Like I said before this thing was even announced and earlier in this thread, I donít even know FMíers here are upset (other than the industry is moving away from stills photos and has been for a long time). Sonyís new a9iii shoots 120fps. What is that? Itís essentially screen grabs and the AF is ridiculously good. Even Fujiís GFX is getting more video centric.

We arenít getting a compact FF mixed lens camera (or ILC) that is small with a good EVF, feature set and ergo for under 3.5k (if we even get one). Iíd love one though. Maybe the next gen of a7cís, but even those are gimped (low res EVF, lesser IBIS, few buttons).

I think what the S9 does has nothing to do with FMíers. Will be interesting to see if it has anything to do with anybody



May 23, 2024 at 03:10 PM
LBJ2
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Panasonic Announces Ultra-Compact Full-Frame LUMIX S9


S9 "Specifically designed for younger content creators who usually rely on their phones to do everything"


Long video, but you can fast forward through the labeled chapters to quickly get to the S9 info you might find interesting :






May 23, 2024 at 03:35 PM
MAubrey
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · Panasonic Announces Ultra-Compact Full-Frame LUMIX S9


bjhurley wrote:
Oh believe me, I would too. But most casual users would not, because the fp doesn't have mechanical IBIS, no articulating screen, and requires mounting an external SSD for the highest-quality video recording. And the S9 seems clearly aimed at casual users for easy shooting of photos and videos with no need for post processing, straight from camera to phone to social media.

I also agree that it'll likely be a flop, but mainly because using a phone for this stuff is even easier, everyone in this target market already knows how to shoot photos and video with their phone, and
...Show more

The Sigma FP community is pretty quirky and has developed solutions on their own to many of the problems (except IBIS, of course) Here's mine. Homemade walnut grip, Dark Power Labs flip screen conversion and SSD mountóthe 2TB SSD records for ~2hrs of 4K 24p RAW.







I really just want PDAF and RAW in this kind of compact size.



May 24, 2024 at 09:40 AM
freaklikeme
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · Panasonic Announces Ultra-Compact Full-Frame LUMIX S9


nehemiahphoto wrote:
Yes. And to be honest, I think, with some of the AI auto framing features, AF and longer recording limits and the wider lens selection of both Sony and 3rd party (specifically Tamron) the ZV-E1 does better at the same job. Not that either will be successful. Itís hard for me to understand how attractive LUTís areósome shooters, especially these types, lean on presets/LUTs and a certain ďcoolĒ and ďvintageĒ vibe. As far as mobility and quasi-automating the workflow, this is just another missed (I think) attempt from manufactures trying to penetrate a market it doesnít seem like they understand.

This
...Show more

There's only so far traditional camera companies are going to get trying to compete with phones. Phones are the center of most content creators' universes. It's a tough sell to get them to buy into dedicated cameras, regardless of connectivity options, when production quality beyond what you can get out of the latest phones isn't going to get them more views/likes/shares. They get a better return putting their money into better lights and sound gear. Traditional CCs are fighting against both a losing business proposition and a generational lifestyle choice there.

I don't know that any company's going to make a "no compromise" compact for the stills market. Sony, ever the withholding bastards, skimped quite a bit with the c updates to give them pricing room between them and the 7IV and rV, but people seem to find ways to be happy with them. Leica may make a mini SL3, but I think it's more likely it'll have the SL2-S sensor and tech (just a guess, but I don't see them creating a camera that could draw sales away from both the SL3 and M11), and I'm sure people will find a way to love it. Compact FF interchangeables in the stills market are going to be hot for a while because, for stills shooters who were disappointed by the constant upsizing of mirrorless cameras, it was a return to what they saw as the promise of mirrorless from the beginning. They'll accept the compromises because they're the best thing on offer right now.

I don't know that Panasonic could've made inroads on that market with a different take on the camera, but I don't see it selling like mad among even the faithful who've relied on Panasonic video for years in whatever form. To me, it looks like a FF version of the GM1. If the 9's lucky, it'll get a second revision with a hot shoe and either an accessory EVF or built in, and then it'll go the way of the GM5, a weirdly beloved little camera that's more prized on the used market than it ever was when available new.



May 24, 2024 at 06:30 PM
1       2              4       end






FM Forums | Leica & Alternative Gear | Join Upload & Sell

1       2              4       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.