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Archive 2023Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
p.13 #1Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
^ OT but IIRC Jim Kasson's blog mentioned something about the GFX 50MP cameras (or at least one of them) being sharper at the pixel level...
M240 and M9 series have vignetting correction baked into the DNG if a lens profile is assigned at time of capture, either manually set or via the 6-bit reader. Not sure about M10 series.
M240 and M9 series have vignetting correction baked into the DNG if a lens profile is assigned at time of capture, either manually set or via the 6-bit reader. Not sure about M10 series.
Jan 22, 2024 at 03:33 PM
p.13 #2Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
highdesertmesa wrote:
I missed that ... got a source / link, thanks.Source is: I tried all those cameras (M10r as well) and compared the results.
The M11 has the same exact vignetting and color cast characteristics as a Sony camera with BSI sensor and thin filter stack.
Read: only slightly greenish corners with acute angles but way more vignetting than an M10.
Regarding the application of the micro lenses and how that leads to that italian flag vignetting I did find an article on that, need to see if I can find it again.When I got my M11 right after it came out, I tested it against the M10-R using all my Summilux lenses. The result was what you mentioned – the M11 had more vignetting, even though Leica said its sensor would handle vignetting better. I'm not sure if they later fixed this with a firmware update to make the vignetting characteristics more similar. My tests were with internal vignetting correction set to 'off'.I wonder if Leica used baked-into-RAW vignetting reduction on previous digital Ms, which they removed on the M11 due to its ability to handle vignetting better at the sensor level.
The M11 did seems to give better corner sharpness at infinity for me over the M10-R, particularly with the 28 and 50 Lux – but that's just anecdotal, not a conclusion made from side-by-side testing. I think that has more to do with the cover glass thinness and microlens design than it does the BSI sensor technology. I say that because when I was using the GFX system and moved from...Show more →
It's quite likely they did just that! I shared the samples on the official M11 thread because I was among the first to receive the M11. I conducted tests on the 35/1.4 lux and 50/1.4 lux to check for vignetting compared to the M10-R (with camera profiles off), and the M11 showed more vignetting. We were all puzzled because the marketing was claiming otherwise.
Fred Miranda wrote
BastianK wrote
RustyBug wrote
BastianK wrote
Since the M11 Leica there is no difference regarding micro lenses anymore.The M11 has the same exact vignetting and color cast characteristics as a Sony camera with BSI sensor and thin filter stack.
Read: only slightly greenish corners with acute angles but way more vignetting than an M10.
Regarding the application of the micro lenses and how that leads to that italian flag vignetting I did find an article on that, need to see if I can find it again.
The M11 did seems to give better corner sharpness at infinity for me over the M10-R, particularly with the 28 and 50 Lux – but that's just anecdotal, not a conclusion made from side-by-side testing. I think that has more to do with the cover glass thinness and microlens design than it does the BSI sensor technology. I say that because when I was using the GFX system and moved from...Show more →
It's quite likely they did just that! I shared the samples on the official M11 thread because I was among the first to receive the M11. I conducted tests on the 35/1.4 lux and 50/1.4 lux to check for vignetting compared to the M10-R (with camera profiles off), and the M11 showed more vignetting. We were all puzzled because the marketing was claiming otherwise.
Jan 22, 2024 at 05:15 PM
p.13 #3Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
itai195 wrote:
Decided to bite on this one. Can't have enough 28mm lenses, I suppose. The only CV 28 I still don't have is the color skopar, and I've certainly considered it.
You should totally consider the CV 28mm 3.5 color skopar
Decided to bite on this one. Can't have enough 28mm lenses, I suppose. The only CV 28 I still don't have is the color skopar, and I've certainly considered it.
You should totally consider the CV 28mm 3.5 color skopar
Jan 22, 2024 at 05:32 PM
p.13 #4Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
rscheffler wrote:
^ OT but IIRC Jim Kasson's blog mentioned something about the GFX 50MP cameras (or at least one of them) being sharper at the pixel level...
M240 and M9 series have vignetting correction baked into the DNG if a lens profile is assigned at time of capture, either manually set or via the 6-bit reader. Not sure about M10 series.
I was throwing out the idea that maybe they did a mild baked-in vignette correction with the M10 cameras in addition to any correction baked in from selecting a profile.
Regarding the GFX 50mp cameras, yes the undersized microlenses tended to give hyper-sharp results at the pixel level. But there was also something about their design that better handled the angle of light rays hitting the corners of the frame – or something lacking with the 100S sensor with regard to the same thing. The anecdotal things I was seeing were differences within the frame when comparing corners to center *separately* for 50S/R and 100S. For example, the falloff in sharpness from center to corner on the 50S/R was nowhere near as dramatic as it was with the 100S. And that goes for all the lenses I used on both cameras, from the native GF lenses to adapted 35mm lenses: the difference in falloff in sharpness from center to corners on the 100S seemed to be higher than it was with the 50S/R. Of course all of that could be due to other factors such as IBIS, which I always used on the 100S and which the 50S/R didn't have.
^ OT but IIRC Jim Kasson's blog mentioned something about the GFX 50MP cameras (or at least one of them) being sharper at the pixel level...
M240 and M9 series have vignetting correction baked into the DNG if a lens profile is assigned at time of capture, either manually set or via the 6-bit reader. Not sure about M10 series.
I was throwing out the idea that maybe they did a mild baked-in vignette correction with the M10 cameras in addition to any correction baked in from selecting a profile.
Regarding the GFX 50mp cameras, yes the undersized microlenses tended to give hyper-sharp results at the pixel level. But there was also something about their design that better handled the angle of light rays hitting the corners of the frame – or something lacking with the 100S sensor with regard to the same thing. The anecdotal things I was seeing were differences within the frame when comparing corners to center *separately* for 50S/R and 100S. For example, the falloff in sharpness from center to corner on the 50S/R was nowhere near as dramatic as it was with the 100S. And that goes for all the lenses I used on both cameras, from the native GF lenses to adapted 35mm lenses: the difference in falloff in sharpness from center to corners on the 100S seemed to be higher than it was with the 50S/R. Of course all of that could be due to other factors such as IBIS, which I always used on the 100S and which the 50S/R didn't have.
Jan 22, 2024 at 05:38 PM
p.13 #5Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
Fred Miranda wrote:
I missed that ... got a source / link, thanks.Source is: I tried all those cameras (M10r as well) and compared the results.
The M11 has the same exact vignetting and color cast characteristics as a Sony camera with BSI sensor and thin filter stack.
Read: only slightly greenish corners with acute angles but way more vignetting than an M10.
Regarding the application of the micro lenses and how that leads to that italian flag vignetting I did find an article on that, need to see if I can find it again.When I got my M11 right after it came out, I tested it against the M10-R using all my Summilux lenses. The result was what you mentioned – the M11 had more vignetting, even though Leica said its sensor would handle vignetting better. I'm not sure if they later fixed this with a firmware update to make the vignetting characteristics more similar. My tests were with internal vignetting correction set to 'off'.I wonder if Leica used baked-into-RAW vignetting reduction on previous digital Ms, which they removed on the M11 due to its ability to handle vignetting better at the sensor level.
The M11 did seems to give better corner sharpness at infinity for me over the M10-R, particularly with the 28 and 50 Lux – but that's just anecdotal, not a conclusion made from side-by-side testing. I think that has more to do with the cover glass thinness and microlens design than it does the BSI sensor technology. I say that because when I was using the GFX system and moved from the FSI 50S/R to the BSI 100S, I noticed most of my lenses were a bit softer in the corners than they were before (when viewed at the same resolution). If I recall correctly, there were some improvements made with regard to corner sharpness for the GFX 100 II – perhaps a tweak to the microlenses.It's quite likely they did just that! I shared the samples on the official M11 thread because I was among the first to receive the M11. I conducted tests on the 35/1.4 lux and 50/1.4 lux to check for vignetting compared to the M10-R (with camera profiles off), and the M11 showed more vignetting. We were all puzzled because the marketing was claiming otherwise.
There was also an early firmware bug related to extreme vignetting on JPEGs from the M11 with wide aperture lenses when shot wide open. Leica corrected this in a firmware update, but it could be that the RAW files were also affected, albeit less dramatically. It would be interesting to revisit your findings at some point under current firmware.
highdesertmesa wrote
Fred Miranda wrote
BastianK wrote
RustyBug wrote
BastianK wrote
Since the M11 Leica there is no difference regarding micro lenses anymore.The M11 has the same exact vignetting and color cast characteristics as a Sony camera with BSI sensor and thin filter stack.
Read: only slightly greenish corners with acute angles but way more vignetting than an M10.
Regarding the application of the micro lenses and how that leads to that italian flag vignetting I did find an article on that, need to see if I can find it again.
The M11 did seems to give better corner sharpness at infinity for me over the M10-R, particularly with the 28 and 50 Lux – but that's just anecdotal, not a conclusion made from side-by-side testing. I think that has more to do with the cover glass thinness and microlens design than it does the BSI sensor technology. I say that because when I was using the GFX system and moved from the FSI 50S/R to the BSI 100S, I noticed most of my lenses were a bit softer in the corners than they were before (when viewed at the same resolution). If I recall correctly, there were some improvements made with regard to corner sharpness for the GFX 100 II – perhaps a tweak to the microlenses.
There was also an early firmware bug related to extreme vignetting on JPEGs from the M11 with wide aperture lenses when shot wide open. Leica corrected this in a firmware update, but it could be that the RAW files were also affected, albeit less dramatically. It would be interesting to revisit your findings at some point under current firmware.
Jan 22, 2024 at 05:57 PM
p.13 #6Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
I did a quick comparison shot between the Nokton and 28mm Summilux to see the bokeh ball rendering. Holiday lights shot at 2.5(ish) feet, wide open, focused at infinity.
They are almost indistinguishable.
They are almost indistinguishable.
Jan 22, 2024 at 07:59 PM
p.13 #7Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
@fredmiranda Will you be starting your review soon Fred?
Jan 22, 2024 at 10:57 PM
p.13 #8Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
nehemiahphoto wrote:
@fredmiranda@ Will you be starting your review soon Fred?
I was told that my production copy will be sent out on Tuesday. I should receive it by Wednesday, and then I might need one day to start the review. 👍
@fredmiranda@ Will you be starting your review soon Fred?
I was told that my production copy will be sent out on Tuesday. I should receive it by Wednesday, and then I might need one day to start the review. 👍
Jan 23, 2024 at 12:02 AM
p.13 #9Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
mdg137 wrote:
I did a quick comparison shot between the Nokton and 28mm Summilux to see the bokeh ball rendering. Holiday lights shot at 2.5(ish) feet, wide open, focused at infinity.
They are almost indistinguishable.
That would be just for foreground bokeh, right?
I did a quick comparison shot between the Nokton and 28mm Summilux to see the bokeh ball rendering. Holiday lights shot at 2.5(ish) feet, wide open, focused at infinity.
They are almost indistinguishable.
That would be just for foreground bokeh, right?
Jan 23, 2024 at 12:20 AM
p.13 #10Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
highdesertmesa wrote:
mdg137 wrote
I did a quick comparison shot between the Nokton and 28mm Summilux to see the bokeh ball rendering. Holiday lights shot at 2.5(ish) feet, wide open, focused at infinity.They are almost indistinguishable.
Correct, I will get out into the field later in the week- weather was not permitting, but I wanted to compare SOMETHING…!
Jan 23, 2024 at 05:08 AM
p.13 #11Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
Well I could resist temptation no longer. All of the hints, allegations, and things left unsaid, along with the few reviews, suggest that this lens is fantastic. Ordered and awaiting shipment notification from CameraQuest.
If anyone is looking for a 28 Ultron ii at a great price, PM me hehe, I’ll be getting a post up on classifieds soon
If anyone is looking for a 28 Ultron ii at a great price, PM me hehe, I’ll be getting a post up on classifieds soon
Jan 23, 2024 at 11:10 AM
p.13 #12Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
ashwinrao1 wrote:
Well I could resist temptation no longer. All of the hints, allegations, and things left unsaid, along with the few reviews, suggest that this lens is fantastic. Ordered and awaiting shipment notification from CameraQuest.
If anyone is looking for a 28 Ultron ii at a great price, PM me hehe, I’ll be getting a post up on classifieds soon
Mine is sitting on my desk at home- Will test it out when I get home this weekend.
Well I could resist temptation no longer. All of the hints, allegations, and things left unsaid, along with the few reviews, suggest that this lens is fantastic. Ordered and awaiting shipment notification from CameraQuest.
If anyone is looking for a 28 Ultron ii at a great price, PM me hehe, I’ll be getting a post up on classifieds soon
Mine is sitting on my desk at home- Will test it out when I get home this weekend.
Jan 23, 2024 at 12:13 PM
p.13 #13Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
I tested the new Voigtlander 28/1.5 Nokton against the Leica 28/1.4 Lux to check their resolution, contrast, and overall rendering. The results surprised me, and I'll share some samples in the review once the production copy arrives later this week. It's frustrating to have the prototype and not be able to immediately share my findings with the community.
Jan 23, 2024 at 01:17 PM
p.13 #14Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
Fred Miranda wrote:
I tested the new Voigtlander 28/1.5 Nokton against the Leica 28/1.4 Lux to check their resolution, contrast, and overall rendering. The results surprised me, and I'll share some samples in the review once the production copy arrives later this week. It's frustrating to have the prototype and not be able to immediately share my findings with the community.
I am Sooooo curious. My sense, from your mentions, is that you are favorably impressed the performance of the prototype, when compared lenses ranging from the 28 mm f/2.8 and f/2 ultron (at least subjectively) and the 28 Summilux, which to me would be the real coup, given the 28 Lux was my favorite modern Leica lens ever (had to sell it to be able to move into medium format a few years back). IF the 28 Nokton is even close, that's an amazing deal and opportunity
I tested the new Voigtlander 28/1.5 Nokton against the Leica 28/1.4 Lux to check their resolution, contrast, and overall rendering. The results surprised me, and I'll share some samples in the review once the production copy arrives later this week. It's frustrating to have the prototype and not be able to immediately share my findings with the community.
I am Sooooo curious. My sense, from your mentions, is that you are favorably impressed the performance of the prototype, when compared lenses ranging from the 28 mm f/2.8 and f/2 ultron (at least subjectively) and the 28 Summilux, which to me would be the real coup, given the 28 Lux was my favorite modern Leica lens ever (had to sell it to be able to move into medium format a few years back). IF the 28 Nokton is even close, that's an amazing deal and opportunity
Jan 23, 2024 at 01:37 PM
p.13 #15Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
Mine just arrived today. I opted for the type I in matte black over the type II because I didn't want the added weight and the black paint wouldn't have looked as good on a M11M with it's matte finish.
The stock images don't do the lens justice. While I thought the type I looked a little ugly compared to the type II from the images I saw online, I'm very please with it in person. Focus ring is perfectly smooth through the entire range and aperture ring clicks are very satisfying. The build feels much better than my 28mm Ultron V2 which is in black paint. The weight of this lens with the reduced weight of the M11M as compared to my M10-P make the combo a real joy to hold. I'm looking forward to testing the lens out.
The stock images don't do the lens justice. While I thought the type I looked a little ugly compared to the type II from the images I saw online, I'm very please with it in person. Focus ring is perfectly smooth through the entire range and aperture ring clicks are very satisfying. The build feels much better than my 28mm Ultron V2 which is in black paint. The weight of this lens with the reduced weight of the M11M as compared to my M10-P make the combo a real joy to hold. I'm looking forward to testing the lens out.
Jan 23, 2024 at 03:59 PM
p.13 #16Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
Fred Miranda wrote:
I tested the new Voigtlander 28/1.5 Nokton against the Leica 28/1.4 Lux to check their resolution, contrast, and overall rendering. The results surprised me, and I'll share some samples in the review once the production copy arrives later this week. It's frustrating to have the prototype and not be able to immediately share my findings with the community.
I'm also in for this one and preordered the type II version. CV makes me feel safer than Thypoch and 28mm is my absolute favorite focal length (besides 50mm). This Nokton will be a perfect partner of my Elmarit. Can't wait to read your review, Fred.
I tested the new Voigtlander 28/1.5 Nokton against the Leica 28/1.4 Lux to check their resolution, contrast, and overall rendering. The results surprised me, and I'll share some samples in the review once the production copy arrives later this week. It's frustrating to have the prototype and not be able to immediately share my findings with the community.
I'm also in for this one and preordered the type II version. CV makes me feel safer than Thypoch and 28mm is my absolute favorite focal length (besides 50mm). This Nokton will be a perfect partner of my Elmarit. Can't wait to read your review, Fred.
Jan 23, 2024 at 04:44 PM
p.13 #17Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
fededuran wrote:
I'm also in for this one and preordered the type II version. CV makes me feel safer than Thypoch and 28mm is my absolute favorite focal length (besides 50mm). This Nokton will be a perfect partner of my Elmarit. Can't wait to read your review, Fred.
I have been very pleased with the quality of nearly all of the CV lenses I have tried over the past few yearly, only using reviews from Fred and a few others to walk away from some lenses. Over the years, I have gradually sold all of my modern M lenses (save the 90 APO summicron, which I still feel is without peer). I long felt that the 28 lux was also without peer, but it seems that maybe this new CV 28mm f/1.5 asph is up to the task of matching it or nearly matching it optically, which would be amazing at an 8x cost savings. Thypoch seems like a really neat option, but it is such a new company, and I am not a fan of some of their design choices (particularly the small, and rather recessed focusing ring and the infinity lock). Further, their build quality and tolerances (decentering, etc) remain to be known. The Thypoch lens has a rendering that, from a very limited perspective, seems more gentle and "rounded" (softer transitions through OOF, less dramatic fall off), which would maybe make it better for people/environmental portraitures as a story telling lens with some character, but I prefer to create some of that look in post processing if I want it, now that such things are doable in LR. The things I like about the Thypoch are the included hood, the RF detente to indicate falling out of RF coupling, the floating element design , the metal rear lens cap, and of course the price. But using lenses are all about IQ AND ergonomics/handling/haptics, and I think Voigtlander will own this space, provide a sharp, character lens with modern properties....and hopefully no focus shift when stopped down to mid apertures (2.8-5.6, pretty please hahah)
Fred Miranda wrote
I tested the new Voigtlander 28/1.5 Nokton against the Leica 28/1.4 Lux to check their resolution, contrast, and overall rendering. The results surprised me, and I'll share some samples in the review once the production copy arrives later this week. It's frustrating to have the prototype and not be able to immediately share my findings with the community.I have been very pleased with the quality of nearly all of the CV lenses I have tried over the past few yearly, only using reviews from Fred and a few others to walk away from some lenses. Over the years, I have gradually sold all of my modern M lenses (save the 90 APO summicron, which I still feel is without peer). I long felt that the 28 lux was also without peer, but it seems that maybe this new CV 28mm f/1.5 asph is up to the task of matching it or nearly matching it optically, which would be amazing at an 8x cost savings. Thypoch seems like a really neat option, but it is such a new company, and I am not a fan of some of their design choices (particularly the small, and rather recessed focusing ring and the infinity lock). Further, their build quality and tolerances (decentering, etc) remain to be known. The Thypoch lens has a rendering that, from a very limited perspective, seems more gentle and "rounded" (softer transitions through OOF, less dramatic fall off), which would maybe make it better for people/environmental portraitures as a story telling lens with some character, but I prefer to create some of that look in post processing if I want it, now that such things are doable in LR. The things I like about the Thypoch are the included hood, the RF detente to indicate falling out of RF coupling, the floating element design , the metal rear lens cap, and of course the price. But using lenses are all about IQ AND ergonomics/handling/haptics, and I think Voigtlander will own this space, provide a sharp, character lens with modern properties....and hopefully no focus shift when stopped down to mid apertures (2.8-5.6, pretty please hahah)
Jan 23, 2024 at 07:12 PM
p.13 #18Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
Does anyone know if CameraQuest has started shipping the CV 28 yet? I am curious about the type II in particular, as that's the one I ordered.
Jan 23, 2024 at 07:15 PM
p.13 #19Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
ashwinrao1 wrote:
Does anyone know if CameraQuest has started shipping the CV 28 yet? I am curious about the type II in particular, as that's the one I ordered.
I ordered mine from CameraQuest Saturday morning and received it today (Tuesday). I order the type 1.
Does anyone know if CameraQuest has started shipping the CV 28 yet? I am curious about the type II in particular, as that's the one I ordered.
I ordered mine from CameraQuest Saturday morning and received it today (Tuesday). I order the type 1.
Jan 23, 2024 at 08:28 PM
p.13 #20Cosina Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 28/1.5 VM lenses announced today
I keep waffling between added weight and no stick, but this lens renders beautifully to me.
Jan 23, 2024 at 10:51 PM