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Archive 2023 · A7CR or A7RV

  
 
chiron
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p.2 #1 · A7CR or A7RV


Below is what I wrote in another thread about getting to know my A7Cr after having it for a few days. I have now had it for about six weeks, taken it to Japan for 3 weeks, and my initial impressions have held up. The greatest weakness of the camera, for me, is that it is not a stacked sensor and so is kludgy (same as A7RV) in handling the problem of banding with LED lights. But the only Sony cameras that have stacked sensors at the moment are the A1 and the A9xx.



"I now have had my A7Cr for a couple of days and I am still in the process of getting to know it. One reviewer has described it as "a slightly stripped-back A7RV in a body that is very similar to the A6700," another wrote that "it packs some of the best features of the a7RV into a smaller body that’s suitable for travel," and a third said that the A7Rc was "well suited to travel or documentary photographers who want the best possible quality while traveling light. But the A7R V has handling, controls and features more likely to tempt professional photographers." I think these reviewers have it just about exactly right.

"I don't think the camera is designed for professional photographers, who will want two card slots and a heavier body to hold large lenses and to sustain continuous shooting for hours at a time and who will soon spin out hundreds of thousands of exposures on a full mechanical shutter setting. If that is who you are, this is not your work camera. Nor is it the right camera for BIF people for whom the difference between 8 FPS and 30 FPS may be important and who want to mount huge lenses.

"It is however an ideal camera for travelers and documentary photographers and people who try to have a camera with them in everyday life, whether they are doing street shooting or photographing their family and friends and the ordinary environments of their lives. It also works very well for landscapes, architecture, and for still-lifes. I think it is a camera that is designed for the kind of photographer the Leica originally attracted many years ago.

"It is light, significantly lighter than the A7RV, and very easy to take along without feeling like a pack horse. It is about the same size as but smaller than the original Sony full-frame mirrorless cameras like the A7R and the A7II, and is thus a return to what originally made Sony special and appealing for many DSLR users. It is less likely than other cameras to make your subjects nervous about the big camera pointed at them.

"It is comfortable to hold and easy to pack. It is at its nifty best with more compact lenses, though it feels fine with my 24-70 GM II mounted. If you have high quality small lenses, then the working unit of the A7Cr + lens will be much smaller and lighter than other body + lens combinations. You can build a very high-quality system that is both light and compact. The image quality and the IBIS of the camera are excellent and the AF is surpassing (though I haven't had any problem with focusing or getting sharp shots since the A9's Real-Time Tracking came into being four or five years ago).

"The A7Cr does require some transitioning in terms of handling. The Sony interface is evolving. There is a new menu system (Sony's third I think) that one has to learn. The camera has more features to set than anything other than the A7RV, so there is some learning to be done about which different settings one wants to use. Accessing features that you may want to change while shooting will use some custom buttons but also the enhanced and accessible (by swiping) touchscreen, which to my taste works nicely but still takes getting used to. I will probably also access the Fn Menu a bit more than before. But more of the settings are designed to change directly rather than by taking you to a sub-menu of settings, so it feels fast to make changes even though some are made in a different way.

"The additional front wheel is a big deal for me since I shoot in manual and want two wheels to easily change both aperture and shutter speed. The new EVF and the LCD are both fine for me (when I use a manual lens, I have always used Magnify focus-assist, and it works perfectly well with this EVF and LCD).

"Overall, I have been very pleased with the A7Cr, and I am about to take it on a three-week trip to Japan. But I do have the sense of learning a new camera that is similar to the A7RV in capacities and in what needs to be set but still different in terms of handling. It is also different in both its handling and its features from the A7C. So it seems like a very new iteration of a Sony full-frame mirrorless camera. It calls for new muscle memory. It does feel like there is a learning curve, which no doubt will frustrate some users but which also no doubt will fade with experience."



Edited on Nov 25, 2023 at 12:08 PM · View previous versions



Nov 25, 2023 at 11:45 AM
SpecFoto
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p.2 #2 · A7CR or A7RV


GMPhotography wrote:
For flash you have to use a mechanical shutter the 6700 has one. Electronic shutter won’t flash

The A7Rc will use a limited mechanical shutter for flash but sync speed is reduced. For me it’s LED use of anti flicker with flash. Have not looked much at the A7Rc but I know it’s not full boat features.



Thanks Guy. So the A7CR will fire a flash with the limited mechanical shutter, but most likely at 1/160ss instead of 1/250ss flash sync like the A7RV. I think that seals it for me and will be looking for a good deal on the A7RV, as I have the A6700 and really like it so it will be my travel camera and my small Godox flash works with it at 1/200ss flash sync if needed.



Nov 25, 2023 at 11:46 AM
chez
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p.2 #3 · A7CR or A7RV


chiron wrote:
Below is what I wrote in another thread about getting to know my A7Cr after having it for a few days. I have now had it for about six weeks, taken it Japan for 3 weeks, and my initial impressions have held up. The greatest weakness of the camera, for me, is that it is not a stacked sensor and so is kludgy (same as A7RV) in handling the problem of banding with LED lights. But the only Sony cameras that have stacked sensors at the moment are the A1 and the A9xx.

"I now have had my A7Cr for a
...Show more →


Yes, travel and documentary photography is where the A7cr camera shines. I think most people here are not so naive to think this camera was targeted at the professional market. It’s sweet spot are for those that value light and compact systems which is an area that is growing as can be seen by so many talking about all the smaller compact lenses being released. With the addition of the extender, the camera probably feels pretty good with the larger lenses in a pinch.

I applaud Sony to not ignore the value of compact cameras and not just focus on the race to bring out the best spec’d cameras ignoring their size.



Nov 25, 2023 at 11:58 AM
GMPhotography
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p.2 #4 · A7CR or A7RV


SpecFoto wrote:
Thanks Guy. So the A7CR will fire a flash with the limited mechanical shutter, but most likely at 1/160ss instead of 1/250ss flash sync like the A7RV. I think that seals it for me and will be looking for a good deal on the A7RV, as I have the A6700 and really like it so it will be my travel camera and my small Godox flash works with it at 1/200ss flash sync if needed.


For your needs it sounds like a good idea to go A7RV as your talking flash you want the higher sync. Hell I want the global shutter to go even higher but 24 mpx is tough



Nov 25, 2023 at 12:18 PM
GMPhotography
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p.2 #5 · A7CR or A7RV


I still have my 6700 and to me it’s like brother and sister with the A7rv


Nov 25, 2023 at 12:22 PM
SpecFoto
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p.2 #6 · A7CR or A7RV


GMPhotography wrote:
For your needs it sounds like a good idea to go A7RV as your talking flash you want the higher sync. Hell I want the global shutter to go even higher but 24 mpx is tough


For your IMTS events and end of runway shots, I would think the A7RV in the crop mode at 26MP with a Sony 70-200GM II would be perfect setup. Most of the clients buying your event photos are used to cell phone photos anyway, and even at 26MP ( or 24MP with G9II and 1.4 TC ) I feel they will be highly impressed with your results.



Nov 25, 2023 at 12:40 PM
GMPhotography
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p.2 #7 · A7CR or A7RV


Exactly what I’m shooting the A7RV with 70-200 in crop mode. Images are stunning from that combo

I thought about getting the TC 1.4 and still may but I do have to watch for led banding. Seriously the A9 III with the TC would be killer setup. Maybe the July show as it’s to early for release in January



Nov 25, 2023 at 12:56 PM
darrellc
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p.2 #8 · A7CR or A7RV


I much prefer smaller, lighter equipment. Having bought and sold the A7C a few times and owned every iteration of the Fuji X100, some multiple times, I've learned the following is true for me. I'd much rather use my A7Rxx (or any of the full size bodies) with, say, a 40/2.5G instead of the A7C type bodies. The volume difference is meaningful for certain small bags (like my Peak design sling), but once on my shoulder, I don't really notice the weight or volume difference between those two kits. I find the user experience on the full size bodies vastly more enjoyable, outweighing marginal gains on size/weight. When I own the A7C, I just find myself not using them much and picking up the A7R/pancake combo instead.

I might try an A7CR with the addition of the dial and better EVF, that might shift the balance. And looks like A7RV put on more weight, so the balance might have shifted there as well. I'm sure I'll try them soon.

I feel the same way about the Fuji X100 series, though I love them dearly. There really isn't much difference between the X100V and an A7RIV with a 35/2.8 or 40/2.5. You have to get to something like the Ricoh GR or the RX100 series to get full benefits of smaller size (pocketability, ability to slip into any bag w/o considering size or weight).



Nov 25, 2023 at 02:09 PM
dakel
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p.2 #9 · A7CR or A7RV


brettgoulder wrote:
I value traveling light and fast, with a camera as an everyday carry. Mostly family/travel photography. Also do a lot of hiking/landscape photography.
..............
Thoughts?


My 2c - Since the A7Cr only has a single card slot, how much is an (admittedly very rare) card failure going to hurt? In other words, how important are your photos to you? If you are travelling and have a card go bad, are you just going to shrug and say "Oh well" or are you going to get upset and want to revisit another time and reshoot? Same for if you go hiking and the same thing happens. Also, my hunch is that the A7RV is a more robust body, better able to withstand drops and adverse weather. Just a hunch though.

Finally, the A7RV is a better camera on paper in every respect except size and weight. If I could only own one I would get the A7RV.

Good luck!



Nov 25, 2023 at 03:03 PM
wind30
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p.2 #10 · A7CR or A7RV


dakel wrote:
My 2c - Since the A7Cr only has a single card slot, how much is an (admittedly very rare) card failure going to hurt? In other words, how important are your photos to you? If you are travelling and have a card go bad, are you just going to shrug and say "Oh well" or are you going to get upset and want to revisit another time and reshoot? Same for if you go hiking and the same thing happens. Also, my hunch is that the A7RV is a more robust body, better able to withstand drops and adverse weather.
...Show more →

I have been shooting vacation travels for over 15 years. I shoot one card even on camera with two card slots. Honestly, the chance of a card dying is so low… and for vacation travel, losing one day worth of shot once in maybe 30 years is ok.



Nov 25, 2023 at 04:50 PM
chez
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p.2 #11 · A7CR or A7RV


wind30 wrote:
I have been shooting vacation travels for over 15 years. I shoot one card even on camera with two card slots. Honestly, the chance of a card dying is so low… and for vacation travel, losing one day worth of shot once in maybe 30 years is ok.


Yeh, people soon forget ( or most likely never experienced ) shooting film where during travels you had to have a suitcase full of film for your trip and then pray the X-ray machines at airports would not fog the film and hand off those 40 rolls to some geeky kid at the processing lab with the hopes they don't mess things up.

Today's actual disaster caused by a memory card going bad is infinitesimal compared to what people had to deal with during the film days.



Nov 25, 2023 at 05:25 PM
GMPhotography
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p.2 #12 · A7CR or A7RV


Well it happened a lot when I was teaching workshops but that was some time ago and cards have gotten better for sure. I would not put a sticker on them saying low actually I’ve seen readers go bad. From my seat it’s a risk I’d rather not take .Although losing day of vacation images would not kill me. It’s the client stuff so that whole trust thing is dependent on you as the shooter. I trust very little but I have been lucky


Nov 25, 2023 at 05:55 PM
Craig Gillette
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p.2 #13 · A7CR or A7RV


I still shudder thinking about putting Kodachrome in mailers. From home, then, I'm sure the local shop was on messenger with Hollywood and not sure how they handled the Palo alto - Page Springs? lab.


Nov 25, 2023 at 06:29 PM
Craig Gillette
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p.2 #14 · A7CR or A7RV


My recent vacation I decided to make my wife happy and not concentrate on photography as much as looking and enjoying. Which was almost OK. so lower volume of shooting but more relaxing on trains with poor window access, tints and reflections, and somewhat rushed day tours off the boat.

As to A7CR or A7Rv, I doubt I'll get around to going for either at this point. Good points for both. Since I already have the A6700 to center a lighter kit around, I'd probably go with the A7Rv.



Nov 25, 2023 at 06:39 PM
Jbantillo
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p.2 #15 · A7CR or A7RV


I don’t know who this “we” is but if the D8 is the same weight/size as the Z8 then it wouldn’t matter to me. If the Z8 had the same price as the A7R5 on sale and if Nikon had the same selection of lenses of Sony I’d definitely go with the Z8 as that’s one awesome camera.

Now the Canon R3 and Z9 are definitely beefy 😂

chez wrote:
Yet we all claim the Nikon D8 as an overweight pig, but it weighs only 175g more than the A7r5. I own both an A7r and A7r3 and I can definitely feel their weight difference when carrying them.




Nov 25, 2023 at 07:54 PM
macadphotos
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p.2 #16 · A7CR or A7RV


Here's my take on each of the spec differences.

a7rv vs a7cr
1. Mechanical shutter instead of ECFS - A7RV produces smoother bokeh when using fast lenses in bright daylight but probably not significant most of the time. I tested the 50mm 1.4 on the a7cr and the bokeh difference became apparent when I increased from 1/2000s to 1/4000s.
2. Higher res EVF and LCD, larger EVF - Personal preference. Just like how some people are happy with 720p TVs, and some want 4K HDR.
3. Best-in-class flip/articulating screen hybrid - Ah yes, the solution to end all debates between flip screens and articulating screens. Very very nice quality of life change, though I am happy with just the articulating screen (as a photographer)
4. 10fps with >500 raw buffer vs 8fps with <50 raw buffer - At >60mb per photo, I'm trying to limit the number of raw files I get, so I'm usually shooting at slower than 8fps anyway. This change will matter most to photographers trying to capture the perfect moment while utilizing the full 60mp for either cropping or large prints (sports, action, wedding, wildlife?)
5. IBIS 8 stop vs 7 stop - Useful especially for 60mp sensors that can pick up even the smallest of vibrations. But the marginal gain is becoming smaller and smaller. 4 to 5 stops is a 25% improvement, 7 to 8 stops is a 14% improvement.
6. 208g heavier - The most important difference! Negligible for some people, night-and-day difference for others. You can compound the weight savings on the a7cr with slower full frame lenses or using APS-C lenses in crop mode.
7. 2 card slots - Important for working professionals, and for people who absolutely need to prevent that 1/100000 (or lower, depending on the card) event from happening. An added benefit is if you ever forget to bring one of the sd cards, you always have a backup in the second slot.
8. Quieter mechanical shutter - Not often discussed, but I could tell the difference in the showroom. Useful for wedding and concert photographers probably. But then again, the A9III with global shutter in silent mode is even better
9. 1/250 vs 1/160 flash sync speed - Huge difference for photographers trying to overpower ambient light with strobes. Might not matter as much for the average hobbyist. Hello A9III
10. Slightly larger form factor - Personal preference. Note that if you intend to add handgrips or other heavy attachments to improve a7CR's handling anyway, maybe consider the a7rv.
11. Slightly worse battery life - a7CR edges out a little (5-10%?), probably due to the less demanding EVF and LCD. Not very impactful IMO. Always interesting to me that EVF consumes more power than LCD despite being smaller.
12. 1/8000 vs 1/4000 max shutter speed. Not a huge diff unless you need to shoot wide open in bright daylight, probably portrait and wedding photographers shooting outdoors at f1.2-2.
13. More custom buttons - Personal preference. More is obviously better, but if you are not using all of them anyway, then the benefit is moot.
14. Better video specs - I'm not a videographer, but from what I read, a7rv has slightly better specs in terms of resolution and shooting time thanks to the heat dissipation. Rolling shutter is a concern for both cameras, but it might not matter too much for most scenes.
15. More expensive - Spend between $400-$900 more to get the a7RV. YMMV.
16. Better build? - It 'feels' like the a7rv is built more robustly and should last longer, but I don't have any data to back that up.
(Updated)
17. Joystick - great to have, important quality-of-life feature, but not strictly necessary.
18. Ultrasonic dust removal mechanism - Nothing more annoying than seeing dust specks in photos, so if there is a better way to remove dust from the sensor, yes please!
19+. Others (courtesy of cameradecisions.com) flash sync port, HDMI port, focus bracketing, USB gen 2

Tada, a complete list of 19 differences, mostly in favor of the a7rv. It really does feel like the a7cr has a lot of compromises, even if the compromises are really minor and unlikely to affect real-world shooting experiences for most people. I like the a7cr, so that's my take


Edited on Nov 26, 2023 at 02:48 AM · View previous versions



Nov 25, 2023 at 11:02 PM
SrMi
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p.2 #17 · A7CR or A7RV


My comments are based on my experience with a7cr and a7rv (I own both).

macadphotos wrote:
Here's my take on each of the spec differences.

a7rv vs a7cr
1. Mechanical shutter instead of ECFS - A7RV produces smoother bokeh when using fast lenses in bright daylight but probably not significant most of the time. I tested the 50mm 1.4 on the a7cr and the bokeh difference became apparent when I increased from 1/2000s to 1/4000s.


A fast lens is not the only requirement. You must be shooting wide-open as well. On the other hand, shooting with a mechanical shutter can cause shutter shock at lower shutter speed. So, you either have to switch to a mechanical or electronic shutter when shooting wide open at high shutter speed (unlikely in artificial light).


2. Higher res EVF and LCD, larger EVF - Personal preference. Just like how some people are happy with 720p TVs, and some want 4K HDR.


No, the difference is not as drastic as 720p vs 4K HDR.


3. Best-in-class flip/articulating screen hybrid - Ah yes, the solution to end all debates between flip screens and articulating screens. Very very nice quality of life change, though I am happy with just the articulating screen (as a photographer)
4. 10fps with >500 raw buffer vs 8fps with <50 raw buffer - At >60mb per photo, I'm trying to limit the number of raw files I get, so I'm usually shooting at slower than 8fps anyway. This change will matter most to photographers trying to capture the perfect moment while utilizing the full 60mp for either cropping or large prints (sports, action,
...Show more →

That is the theoretical CIPA measurement. I have not noticed much difference in practice, but I did not have much time with a7cr yet. So far, I am very happy with its IBIS.


6. 208g heavier - The most important difference! Negligible for some people, night-and-day difference for others. You can compound the weight savings on the a7cr with slower full frame lenses or using APS-C lenses in crop mode.


Yes, that is very subjective, but whenever I pick up a7rV or a7cr (with the same lightweight lens), the a7cr feels lighter and more compact.


7. 2 card slots - Important for working professionals, and for people who absolutely need to prevent that 1/100000 (or lower, depending on the card) event from happening. An added benefit is if you ever forget to bring one of the sd cards, you always have a backup in the second slot.


Like many, I never use the second slot (except to store the extra SD card when I forget to put the main car back). But if you need it, a7cr is not for you.


8. Quieter mechanical shutter - Not often discussed, but I could tell the difference in the showroom. Useful for wedding and concert photographers probably. But then again, the A9III with global shutter in silent mode is even better
9. 1/250 vs 1/160 flash sync speed - Huge difference for photographers trying to overpower ambient light with strobes. Might not matter as much for the average hobbyist. Hello A9III
10. Slightly larger form factor - Personal preference. Note that if you intend to add handgrips or other heavy attachments to improve a7CR's handling anyway, maybe consider the a7rv.


Using a grip with a7cr does not make sense to me, though even with the grip, the a7cr feels smaller.


11. Slightly worse battery life - a7CR edges out a little (5-10%?), probably due to the less demanding EVF and LCD. Not very impactful IMO. Always interesting to me that EVF consumes more power than LCD despite being smaller.


I believe that power consumption depends on the display resolution.


12. 1/8000 vs 1/4000 max shutter speed. Not a huge diff unless you need to shoot wide open in bright daylight, probably portrait and wedding photographers shooting outdoors at f1.2-2.
13. More custom buttons - Personal preference. More is obviously better, but if you are not using all of them anyway, then the benefit is moot.
14. Better video specs - I'm not a videographer, but from what I read, a7rv has slightly better specs in terms of resolution and shooting time thanks to the heat dissipation. Rolling shutter is a concern for both cameras, but it might not matter too
...Show more →

I do not feel that a7cr's build is any worse than a7rV.


Tada, a complete list of 16 differences, mostly in favor of the a7rv. It really does feel like the a7cr has a lot of compromises, even if the compromises are really minor and unlikely to affect real-world shooting experiences for most people. I like the a7cr, so that's my take


In my book, a7rV was not a big advantage of the Sony system, but recent lenses (high quality, lightweight, and small) were a reason. With a7CR, Sony has launched a unique camera: very small and lightweight while providing the best IQ of FF cameras.



Nov 25, 2023 at 11:56 PM
macadphotos
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p.2 #18 · A7CR or A7RV


Always good to hear from someone who owns both camera!


No, the difference is not as drastic as 720p vs 4K HDR.


true that


In my book, a7rV was not a big advantage of the Sony system, but recent lenses (high quality, lightweight, and small) were a reason. With a7CR, Sony has launched a unique camera: very small and lightweight while providing the best IQ of FF cameras.


You make a very good point. When comparing the a7riv and a7rv, I felt the improvements weren't big enough to justify the pricey upgrade at launch. With the a7cr however, the form factor is different enough that it made sense for me to consider a switch / upgrade / downgrade.

Seeing how people are starting to compare the a7cr to the Leica Q3 as well, it means the value proposition and target market of the a7cr is fundamentally different from the a7 series and that's good. More choices for the consumer (me)



Nov 26, 2023 at 02:02 AM
Yosuke Yamamot
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p.2 #19 · A7CR or A7RV


I’m in the same boat. Tried both cameras at the store and found the ACR with the included grip to be the best option for my hands as far as comfort of holding goes. I also liked the rangefinder style of EVF placement on the left…my face felt more “airy” if that makes any sense. I didn’t find the depth of the grip that different when holding the camera with the grip. I’m on the A7iii right now and my pinky stabilizes the camera from the bottom, and that’s how I held the A7RV as well when I tried it. I was pretty surprised that I liked having a place for the pinky with the grip on the A7CR. Of course, I didn’t try shooting with the cameras for a prolonged period of time.

The other differences in spec don’t bother me that much. I just like that A7CR can be two cameras in one as far as size goes (No Grip + small lens vs With Grip + Larger Lenses). Now if I can get a GT vendor to give me some good prices…



Nov 26, 2023 at 12:03 PM
Blueshound
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p.2 #20 · A7CR or A7RV


Before I bought my A7CR, I did a fair amount of drilling down into reviews, Youtube videos, etc. I own an A7RIV, which I quite like. I've resisted the A7RV, in spite of that gorgeous new EVF. My resistance wasn't about cost, it was about the upward weight bloat. Have to draw the line somewhere, and I've chosen to do it at the body weight of the A7RIV. At the same time, I was balking at a smaller, lower resolution EVF on the 7CR, as I find this an important part of the use experience.

I came across the Youtube video by Hugh Brownstone on the new compact bodies. Hugh positions the A7CII and A7CR in context of the rest of the market, not only in relation to other Sony offerings. He very nicely discusses the entire paradigm around the new Sony offerings, and in a way that is not solely about the usual tech differences.



To me this is the best overview of why the two petite sisters are compelling. Well done Hugh.

Brian




Nov 26, 2023 at 02:40 PM
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