p.16 #1 · New M-Mount 28/1.4 and 35/1.4 from Thypoch
adamdewilde wrote:
Got the Simera-C set 21/28/35/50/75 - all pretty good, difference between my set and the thypochs is really just mine are housed for cine work. Oh and M guys don't have a 21/75 yet.
I would say that the 35/1.4 is the best of the bunch and the more vintage one of the bunch. I'd say I like it better than the 35lux-asph-pre-fle. The rest of the lenses are good but Leica M counterparts are better by a margin noticeable to me. 75c I REALLY wish had more of the 75Lux vibe, it does not. Extremely good value for money too considering I just picked up some Cooke lenses and man the price difference is staggering.
28 gets honourable mention for how good it actually is... 50 lacks the leica magic as does the 75. 21 is fine but the 21lux is leagues better.
Oh also I feel that the look and feel of the Cine version is much nicer than the non-cine version and I'd always only custom order them so they remove the focus lock if I were going M RFcoupled. ...Show more →
I'm also of the opinion that the 35/1.4 Simera is a bit misunderstood. Although it shares a similar optical design with the 35/1.4 Lux FLE, I think it renders more like the pre-FLE, with a bit more uncorrected spherical aberration and slightly less pronounced outlining.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the 75C. I also wish it were more in tune with something like the 75/1.4 Lux.
p.16 #3 · New M-Mount 28/1.4 and 35/1.4 from Thypoch
Steve Spencer wrote:
I would love to hear more about the 75 when you get a chance. I have seen almost no reporting on that lens. It doesn't surprise me that it isn't much like the 75 lux. That Lux only has 7 elements and is a double gauss and the Thypoch has 9 elements and probably not a double gauss with that many elements, so likely a very different sort of design. There is very little information on the 21 either, so any description of what that is like would be appreciated as well.
So with the 75, well with all 75s I usually like to shoot two things. Candids think half to full body street scenes, I feel the 75APO-M is best for this. The Simera seems far less wow, almost flat at both T1.5 and T2-beyond. And the second thing is tight portraits which again the simera feels flat compared to the 75APO-M. For wedding work I also occasionally used it for groups of 2-3 around chest and up framing. So no landscape data no infinity focus etc sorry.
And yeah I don't know why but I was hoping to get some of that creamy haze from the simera at T1.5 like you do with the 75Lux but really I couldn't draw any of that out. Which was primarily where I used the 75Lux literally at or close to 1m most of the time. I wouldn't call this lens a character lens, so for what it's worth there isn't anything objectionable about it. I just feel like it's more flat than anything else. I had to really pump up the contrast in LR to get any sort of pop in my portrait session just to draw some interest to the eye in focus. Please also keep in mind I bought a Sony to use these lenses and I'm no longer familiar with Sony sensors. I also ended up buying an adapter to use them with the Nikon Z8 which is also a new sensor to me bc I bought it for video not photos.
I'm re-buying the set in M mount. Should be here end of the month according to my contact at DZO but she said maybe early Jan worst case scenario. So it'll allow me to use them on the SL2-S where I'll have a better idea of things and will be able to do a real apples to apples comparison with M lenses. Also trying to rope a fellow FMer into bringing out his 75Lux for side by side testing since I sold mine long ago.
The only thing I can think of is that when they designed the Thypochs they did so for photography and when they designed the 75/21 they did so to fill a gap for their planned Cine conversion. So perhaps they were going for a more flat clean look?
Ok one more thing to add.. The bokeh isn't flat, the in focus and overall image has a flat appearance but the bokeh seems to fall off in a stepped way that to my eye (hard to explain) seems very calculated and inorganic. Whereas the 75APO and 75LUX although different fall off in a quicker yet gentler way somehow. Sorry I'm not use to talking about lenses anymore
p.16 #4 · New M-Mount 28/1.4 and 35/1.4 from Thypoch
nehemiahphoto wrote:
Thank you for sharing your experience. I returned my 50 Simera, as it just really wasn’t that special, especially at wide-open portrait distance, which is where I wanted it to sing. Which is exactly where the 50 Lux sings.
I don’t think we are getting new lenses that draw like the old pre-asph luxes from Thypoch. I was very unimpressed with the 34/1.4, but then again, I disliked the 35 Lux asph pre-fle.
If you want to post images, real world or testing, of the 75 or 21, that would be great!
Responded about the 75, I'll wait till I get the M mount version before posting pics. TBH I'm actually going to be putting the Cooke SP3s through all my various real world tests and that's gonna take up a good two to three weeks (6 lenses). Plus I JUST moved so everything is harder this week and for the next two or so weeks bc unpacking a bit every day is crazy. I don't live like a normal person I think. 5 moving trucks worth of stuff (for standardisation think 1x 40ft high wall shipping container + 1x 20ft high wall shipping container). But by end of month I'll have the M-mount Simera-C lenses in hand so will be easier for me to compare to my M lenses when I have a body/sensor I'm used to seeing/using.
p.16 #5 · New M-Mount 28/1.4 and 35/1.4 from Thypoch
adamdewilde wrote:
So with the 75, well with all 75s I usually like to shoot two things. Candids think half to full body street scenes, I feel the 75APO-M is best for this. The Simera seems far less wow, almost flat at both T1.5 and T2-beyond. And the second thing is tight portraits which again the simera feels flat compared to the 75APO-M. For wedding work I also occasionally used it for groups of 2-3 around chest and up framing. So no landscape data no infinity focus etc sorry.
And yeah I don't know why but I was hoping to get some of that creamy haze from the simera at T1.5 like you do with the 75Lux but really I couldn't draw any of that out. Which was primarily where I used the 75Lux literally at or close to 1m most of the time. I wouldn't call this lens a character lens, so for what it's worth there isn't anything objectionable about it. I just feel like it's more flat than anything else. I had to really pump up the contrast in LR to get any sort of pop in my portrait session just to draw some interest to the eye in focus. Please also keep in mind I bought a Sony to use these lenses and I'm no longer familiar with Sony sensors. I also ended up buying an adapter to use them with the Nikon Z8 which is also a new sensor to me bc I bought it for video not photos.
I'm re-buying the set in M mount. Should be here end of the month according to my contact at DZO but she said maybe early Jan worst case scenario. So it'll allow me to use them on the SL2-S where I'll have a better idea of things and will be able to do a real apples to apples comparison with M lenses. Also trying to rope a fellow FMer into bringing out his 75Lux for side by side testing since I sold mine long ago.
The only thing I can think of is that when they designed the Thypochs they did so for photography and when they designed the 75/21 they did so to fill a gap for their planned Cine conversion. So perhaps they were going for a more flat clean look?
Ok one more thing to add.. The bokeh isn't flat, the in focus and overall image has a flat appearance but the bokeh seems to fall off in a stepped way that to my eye (hard to explain) seems very calculated and inorganic. Whereas the 75APO and 75LUX although different fall off in a quicker yet gentler way somehow. Sorry I'm not use to talking about lenses anymore ...Show more →
No sure if this is the case but it's possible that contrast may be lower with their Cine lenses.
p.16 #6 · New M-Mount 28/1.4 and 35/1.4 from Thypoch
Fred Miranda wrote:
No sure if this is the case but it's possible that contrast may be lower with their Cine lenses.
That would be interesting. Why do you think that? Was it mentioned or something? I know the 35 and 28 are lower contrast for the stills version. I’d love to know if they adjusting contrast across the lines.
p.16 #9 · New M-Mount 28/1.4 and 35/1.4 from Thypoch
On first glance the bokeh seems smoother on the E mount (or simply sensor-lens combo). Very neutral colors too, nothing jumps out as color cast. Keep them coming!
philip_pj wrote:
From the E-mount version of the Simera 28/1.4, mounted on a Sony a7r (2013). Regular processing, the basics I do for all images.
p.16 #10 · New M-Mount 28/1.4 and 35/1.4 from Thypoch
Well, I have to thank your good self and Doug Ball for putting me onto these fine lenses. Some people just see things early. DZO-Thypoch are really thoughtful about their plans. No one else is trying to sell both upwards and downwards their RF-inspired lenses in cine and stills. And they are moving so fast they must have had a backlog of prototype stage products ready to go.
They are now offering the ancillaries so people can use the cine Simeras (same optics as ours) on things like the famous Arri PL cameras (see below). The cine lenses are now offered native in both E-mount and M-mount, with a minimum of frippery, just a lot of features. It's a big trend in the making - to get away from the massive investments in cine projects to much greater mobility with still wonderful (and smaller) lenses.
On these images, the 36mp sensor in the a7r (and D800) was a beauty so maybe it has something to do with the look. CA almost requires a search party to find in more than trace amounts in my 28/1.4E. CA is the bane of the class of fast 28s, from my reading so far. In the cine world, they all work very hard to eradicate it, along with distortion and onion rings.
M-mount Simera lenses at the centre of Thypoch's cine products
p.16 #11 · New M-Mount 28/1.4 and 35/1.4 from Thypoch
Near MFD here, to see how easily the focal plane can be seen, and to show front-rear bokeh fall-off, and the contrast level and shape of the bokeh balls - a tough test IMO, at the MFD of 0.4m. I see some highlight glow in some images, but our summers have brutal light so it's hard to say if it persists. I like that in any case.
p.16 #12 · New M-Mount 28/1.4 and 35/1.4 from Thypoch
Looks like the tonality translate very well on Sony sensor even if it's an old one, which is what makes me gravitate towards it in the first place. I might as well just get a A7C and adapt the lens to shoot some videos when time comes!
philip_pj wrote:
Near MFD here, to see how easily the focal plane can be seen, and to show front-rear bokeh fall-off, and the contrast level and shape of the bokeh balls - a tough test IMO, at the MFD of 0.4m. I see some highlight glow in some images, but our summers have brutal light so it's hard to say if it persists. I like that in any case.
p.16 #14 · New M-Mount 28/1.4 and 35/1.4 from Thypoch
Not that I have seen, in either cine or stills form.
Looking at the opposition, the 21mm will be of some interest to many. I found out the Summilux 21/1.4 (of which I was ignorant) was the first 21mm of that max aperture, produced back in 2008. Leica will have to consider a rewrite of this blurb now: 'The Summilux-M 21 mm f/1.4 ASPH. is the first and only lens with this size and lens speed', because even the cine version of the Simera 21mm is that same size, and weighs less too, just 470 grams in M-mount.
It is considerably more complex, at 13/11 -vs- the Summ's 10/8. With FLE, internal focusing, regular filters and hopefully the same 'bump stop' at 0.7m - MFD is 0.23m. The short I saw shot with it was impressive, as wide angles really play into the cine philosophy of DZO more than the longer FLs.
The obvious modern comparator is the CV 21/1.4, also a 13/11 design. It has the same filter thread of 62mm and size, and much the same weight - but these specs relate to the cine Simera 21mm - we can expect Thypoch to reduce the scales somewhat for the stills lens. The lens cut will also reveal if the CV lens was the model for the Simera 21mm design (Thypoch has acknowledged their love of M-RF lenses). The Simera has two asph elements, and six APD elements.
Why is it interesting to stills, video and new age cinema shooters?
Spielberg, Scorsese and Burton all prefer 21mm for their productions, Kubrick used 18mm a lot; the Coens and Fincher, Cronenberg, Gilliam prefer ~27mm. Most of the most significant movies are shot on these focal lengths. We all grew up watching very wide angle cinematography. Longer FLs, like 75mm, are mostly used for 'inserts'.
The dominant use of 21mm also helps explain the effort put into creating image depth (often crassly called 3D or even derisively 'pop') for this class of lens.
Apart from very close focusing, you are always going to have background content in frame, so how well it is shown is vital to the quality of the imagery. Rates of focus fade are critical especially the relationship between distance and progressive residual shaping of motifs.
And high end cine lenses may have longer MFDs - Arri/Zeiss's Master Prime 21/T1.3 is 0.35m, this Simera 21/T1.5 is 0.23m. (the CV 21/1.4 is 0.5m, the Summilux 21/1.4 is 0.7m).
p.16 #16 · New M-Mount 28/1.4 and 35/1.4 from Thypoch
Fred Miranda wrote:
No sure if this is the case but it's possible that contrast may be lower with their Cine lenses.
I'm not sure, my gut feel is yes but I'm also not use to Sony/Nikon so it could be that. if I have the time I can probably test that (though I'm sure someone will beat me to it). I know two people that have the M versions so it's just a matter of getting them to meet up.
Maybe it's the mockup images but they don't look rangefinder coupled. It'd be silly if they weren't though.
Dec 22, 2024 at 03:26 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.16 #20 · New M-Mount 28/1.4 and 35/1.4 from Thypoch
pinewood wrote:
Maybe it's the mockup images but they don't look rangefinder coupled. It'd be silly if they weren't though.
I don't think they are rangefinder coupled. I believe Thypoch is offering them in M mount because it is easy to adapt M mount to any mirrorless system and also to Cine camera systems, sort of a universal mount for all systems with the right adapter. Since these are cine lenses designed for shooting video it makes little sense to shoot them on a Leica M camera most of which don't do video at all.
