I haven't received any e-mail updates about my pre-order of BP version yet (since early March). In previous communication that version was expected to become available somewhat later than Black and Silver versions, so I guess it will still take some more time for that version. I've just sent an e-mail query to Kamii-san to ask about latest estimate for BP version.
p.29 #2 · MS-Optics lenses Image and Discussion Thread
I heard back with info that BP version of 35/1.4 is expected to arrive at MS-Optics sometime later this week (now Monday the 20th in Japan). I guess there's still some work they need to do after arrival but it should be getting ready soon as well. I'm looking forward to mine
p.29 #3 · MS-Optics lenses Image and Discussion Thread
MS-Optics now have a product picture of all 3 versions of 35/1.4 Apoqualia re-release on their new webshop, and Sonnetar 73/1.5 is also listed for pre-orders there (it appears that a new batch of Black and Silver versions will arrive sometime in August).
p.29 #4 · MS-Optics lenses Image and Discussion Thread
I received my Apoqualia 35/1.4 Black Paint #38 (re-release version) today. Just got the e-mail about it being ready and completed payment yesterday and Kamii-san already shipped on the same day (for delivery this morning). Domestic shipping in Japan is always very quick and smooth and it's just ~35km from MS-Optics to my home as well.
The weather is bad today and I have to work so not much shooting done yet but I took it out for a quick spin during my lunch break and I enjoyed taking some wide open bokeh shots on my A7CII until it started to rain. Will wait to get more samples in good weather before posting some. As per initial impressions, I'm very happy with the look and feel and the handling, and ability to focus to 0.4m is very nice. Colors and contrast are strong from wide open (different look from Apollon that prioritizes resolution but has lower contrast). I like my initial bokeh shots quite a bit.
I'll try to find some lens cap that could be used smoothly on top of the hood (as a hood-cap) as I'd like to keep the hood on the lens at all times. So far I found one Konica M-Hexanon cap from my collection that fits on top of the hood but it's not the most elegant solution and it doesn't fit very tight.
I'm looking forward to shooting much more with it in the coming days and months.
p.29 #5 · MS-Optics lenses Image and Discussion Thread
Juha Kannisto wrote:
I received my Apoqualia 35/1.4 Black Paint #38 (re-release version) today. Just got the e-mail about it being ready and completed payment yesterday and Kamii-san already shipped on the same day (for delivery this morning). Domestic shipping in Japan is always very quick and smooth and it's just ~35km from MS-Optics to my home as well.
The weather is bad today and I have to work so not much shooting done yet but I took it out for a quick spin during my lunch break and I enjoyed taking some wide open bokeh shots on my A7CII until it started to rain. Will wait to get more samples in good weather before posting some. As per initial impressions, I'm very happy with the look and feel and the handling, and ability to focus to 0.4m is very nice. Colors and contrast are strong from wide open (different look from Apollon that prioritizes resolution but has lower contrast). I like my initial bokeh shots quite a bit.
I'll try to find some lens cap that could be used smoothly on top of the hood (as a hood-cap) as I'd like to keep the hood on the lens at all times. So far I found one Konica M-Hexanon cap from my collection that fits on top of the hood but it's not the most elegant solution and it doesn't fit very tight.
I'm looking forward to shooting much more with it in the coming days and months....Show more →
I'd love if you could do a few side-by-side comparisons with the Apollon so we can really see the differences between them. I'm reluctant to get the Apoqualia while owning the Apollon, since they're mostly the same design just tweaked differently.
p.29 #6 · MS-Optics lenses Image and Discussion Thread
The photos that first made me take notice of the 35/1.4 Apoqualia were from this guy; I don't like "sexy female model" photos but there's no denying the beautiful rendering of this lens: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmpG2UNy
p.29 #7 · MS-Optics lenses Image and Discussion Thread
Fred Miranda wrote:
I'd love if you could do a few side-by-side comparisons with the Apollon so we can really see the differences between them. I'm reluctant to get the Apoqualia while owning the Apollon, since they're mostly the same design just tweaked differently.
I'll see if I can do some comparison shots on 2 different cameras (A7CII and A7C) with Apoqualia on one and Apollon on the other next weekend. Not enough time during the week as I have days off this week. I think they are quite different lenses in terms of rendering details even though not so different in terms of optical design.
p.29 #8 · MS-Optics lenses Image and Discussion Thread
bjhurley wrote:
The photos that first made me take notice of the 35/1.4 Apoqualia were from this guy; I don't like "sexy female model" photos but there's no denying the beautiful rendering of this lens: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmpG2UNy
p.29 #9 · MS-Optics lenses Image and Discussion Thread
Juha Kannisto wrote:
I'll see if I can do some comparison shots on 2 different cameras (A7CII and A7C) with Apoqualia on one and Apollon on the other next weekend. Not enough time during the week as I have days off this week. I think they are quite different lenses in terms of rendering details even though not so different in terms of optical design.
For what it's worth, I owned them both and like the Apoqualia much better. It's more corrected than the 35 Lux Pre-ASPH I thought, while the Apollon is less. WO, the Apollon crosses over to what I consider a too much/a bit gimmicky WO for my tastes. Knowing your tastes, I think you'd enjoy the Apoqualia more.
p.29 #10 · MS-Optics lenses Image and Discussion Thread
nehemiahphoto wrote:
For what it's worth, I owned them both and like the Apoqualia much better. It's more corrected than the 35 Lux Pre-ASPH I thought, while the Apollon is less. WO, the Apollon crosses over to what I consider a too much/a bit gimmicky WO for my tastes. Knowing your tastes, I think you'd enjoy the Apoqualia more.
Could it just come down to a tweak in the optical design? MS Optics lists the 35/1.4 Apoqualia as actually a 36mm f/1.48, while the Apollon is a 36mm f/1.38. That would explain why the Apollon shows more spherical aberration wide open, so maybe stopping the Apollon down just a touch brings it in line with the Apoqualia.
Worth noting: the SA difference between f/1.48 and f/1.38 might be bigger than it looks. SA blur scales roughly with the cube of the aperture, so that small gap could mean ~23% more blur at f/1.38, even with identical designs. Plus, stopping down even slightly cuts the outer rays first, and those are the biggest SA offenders wide open. So a tiny stop-down could close most of the gap between the Apollon and the Apoqualia.
p.29 #11 · MS-Optics lenses Image and Discussion Thread
Juha Kannisto wrote:
I'll see if I can do some comparison shots on 2 different cameras (A7CII and A7C) with Apoqualia on one and Apollon on the other next weekend. Not enough time during the week as I have days off this week. I think they are quite different lenses in terms of rendering details even though not so different in terms of optical design.
Thanks for doing this. I'll hold off ordering mine until I see your test. If you could also stop the Apollon down just a touch and compare, that would be awesome.
If you want to test my theory that both lenses offer similar SA and contrast at f/1.5, you can shoot the Apoqualia wide open (which is really f/1.5) and set the Apollon's aperture between the first two dots. The first dot next to f/1.3 is actually f/1.4, and the second is f/1.6, so right in between them should land at f/1.5, matching the Apoqualia's true aperture and focal length.
p.29 #12 · MS-Optics lenses Image and Discussion Thread
Fred Miranda wrote:
Could it just come down to a tweak in the optical design? MS Optics lists the 35/1.4 Apoqualia as actually a 36mm f/1.48, while the Apollon is a 36mm f/1.38. That would explain why the Apollon shows more spherical aberration wide open, so maybe stopping the Apollon down just a touch brings it in line with the Apoqualia.
Worth noting: the SA difference between f/1.48 and f/1.38 might be bigger than it looks. SA blur scales roughly with the cube of the aperture, so that small gap could mean ~23% more blur at f/1.38, even with identical designs. Plus, stopping down even slightly cuts the outer rays first, and those are the biggest SA offenders wide open. So a tiny stop-down could close most of the gap between the Apollon and the Apoqualia....Show more →
It very well may. Honestly, I know they’re both double gausse designs, but I did not even look at the element count or spacing or that kind of thing. To be honest, I can observe those things on paper but I don’t have a functional understanding of how they impact actual images. I did find the Apollon to be noticeably lower contrast and having more bokeh than the Apoqualia. The explanation of the f-stop numerical difference be more significant than you would think makes sense in this situation.
And yes, the Apollon has noticeably more SA than the 35 Apoqualia on my opinion. It increases more at the super short and awesome MFD too in my experience. But to see them both at the same aperture and distance would be quite interesting. I’d like to see the FC characteristic compared on both as well. The Apollon as outward FC (corners coming into focus) which I dislike.
p.29 #13 · MS-Optics lenses Image and Discussion Thread
MS-Optics originally advertised that Apoqualia 35/1.4 and 35/1.3 II Slim have higher contrast but lower resolution wide open whereas Apollon was advertised as having the opposite approach with lower contrast but higher resolution wide open. I think with Apollon (at f1.3) resolution is higher at the closest focusing distances and gets lower with longer distances.
Also, Apollon was advertised as a lens for "beginners" when it was introduced, with an indication that Apoqualia (esp. 35/1.3 Slim II) were much harder to use and therefore for "advanced users". I think it mainly referred to ease of focusing as esp. 35/1.3 Slim II got a lot of customer feedback about focusing difficulties since with that lens the best contrast and sharpness don't peak in the same focal plane at wider apertures (than f4).
The old Apoqualia 35/1.4 can focus to 0.6m (based on specs) and has 12 aperture blades, but the new version can focus to 0.4m and has 14 aperture blades. Apollon can focus to 0.3m on paper but it was recently discussed that it's quite copy specific and some of us have copies that can only focus to 0.4m+ in reality (my copy can focus to 41.5cm (wide open) based on my testing). I think the new Apoqualia can focus almost or equally as close as my Apollon but I haven't yet measured it.
When it comes to stopped down infinity shooting (f8) on my Sony, Apollon does better / with flatter field to the edges and corners vs. the new Apoqualia 35/1.4 and also 35/1.3 II Slim. I can get pretty fine corner-to-corner sharpness on Apollon at f8 but exterme corners remain mushy on both Apoqualia in similar type of shooting. Not sure how much Sony stack plays into this.
I think there are quite distinct differences between Apollon and Apoqualia 35/1.4 overall, and also 35/1.3 Slim II is a whole different thing (with more extreme quirks) although on paper it should be very similar to Apoqualia 35/1.4 (optically speaking).
Anyway, I'll try to take comparison shots between Apollon and new Apoqualia 35/1.4 over the weekend. I may post some samples taken with 35/1.4 before that as I'm now using the new lens on my camera every day and shooting some stuff on my lunch breaks.
I still keep all my 35/36mm MS-Optics lenses, so now I have 4 of them, Super Triplet Perar 35mm f/3.5 II, Apoqualia 35mm f/1.3 II Slim, Apollon 36/1.3, Apoqualia 35/1.4 (re-release). I feel all of them are quite unique in some ways.
Most shots at f1.4 or f8 (infinity type cityscapes), with just a couple at f2. The bokeh can be quite quirky wide open and it does seem to calm down quite a bit at f2. I think the lens is perhaps sharper than I expected at f1.4. I should try to shoot samples at f2 as well. I'm enjoying the lens quite a bit so far.
I measured that my copy of the new lens can focus as close as 37.3 cm wide open (actually around 4 cm closer than my Apollon). The focus throw is much shorter than on the Apollon overall though.
p.29 #15 · MS-Optics lenses Image and Discussion Thread
Juha Kannisto wrote:
Here are some lunch break and commuting samples I've shot with my new Apoqualia 35/1.4 on my A7CII so far (with my usual type of PP with C1 Pro):
Most shots at f1.4 or f8 (infinity type cityscapes), with just a couple at f2. The bokeh can be quite quirky wide open and it does seem to calm down quite a bit at f2. I think the lens is perhaps sharper than I expected at f1.4. I should try to shoot samples at f2 as well. I'm enjoying the lens quite a bit so far.
I measured that my copy of the new lens can focus as close as 37.3 cm wide open (actually around 4 cm closer than my Apollon). The focus throw is much shorter than on the Apollon overall though....Show more →
Those look good, and the close focus works well.
My original release Apoqualia does show more glow, and really ugly in front of focus bokeh,
The idea of a black paint one has been on my mind - though diminished, as I guess not brass construction.
p.29 #16 · MS-Optics lenses Image and Discussion Thread
Juha Kannisto wrote:
Here are some lunch break and commuting samples I've shot with my new Apoqualia 35/1.4 on my A7CII so far (with my usual type of PP with C1 Pro):
Most shots at f1.4 or f8 (infinity type cityscapes), with just a couple at f2. The bokeh can be quite quirky wide open and it does seem to calm down quite a bit at f2. I think the lens is perhaps sharper than I expected at f1.4. I should try to shoot samples at f2 as well. I'm enjoying the lens quite a bit so far.
I measured that my copy of the new lens can focus as close as 37.3 cm wide open (actually around 4 cm closer than my Apollon). The focus throw is much shorter than on the Apollon overall though....Show more →
Those look good, and the close focus works well.
My original release Apoqualia does show more glow, and really ugly in front of focus bokeh,
The idea of a black paint one has been on my mind - though diminished, as I guess not brass construction.
p.29 #17 · MS-Optics lenses Image and Discussion Thread
Juha Kannisto wrote:
Here are some lunch break and commuting samples I've shot with my new Apoqualia 35/1.4 on my A7CII so far (with my usual type of PP with C1 Pro):
Most shots at f1.4 or f8 (infinity type cityscapes), with just a couple at f2. The bokeh can be quite quirky wide open and it does seem to calm down quite a bit at f2. I think the lens is perhaps sharper than I expected at f1.4. I should try to shoot samples at f2 as well. I'm enjoying the lens quite a bit so far.
I measured that my copy of the new lens can focus as close as 37.3 cm wide open (actually around 4 cm closer than my Apollon). The focus throw is much shorter than on the Apollon overall though....Show more →
Lovely Yokohama, Juha.
The center looks very well corrected, with little spherical aberration (even at close distance). I never tested the original Apoqualia, but I'm seeing a noticeable drop in resolution and contrast from center to off-axis. (example)
p.29 #18 · MS-Optics lenses Image and Discussion Thread
Juha Kannisto wrote:
Here are some lunch break and commuting samples I've shot with my new Apoqualia 35/1.4 on my A7CII so far (with my usual type of PP with C1 Pro):
Most shots at f1.4 or f8 (infinity type cityscapes), with just a couple at f2. The bokeh can be quite quirky wide open and it does seem to calm down quite a bit at f2. I think the lens is perhaps sharper than I expected at f1.4. I should try to shoot samples at f2 as well. I'm enjoying the lens quite a bit so far.
I measured that my copy of the new lens can focus as close as 37.3 cm wide open (actually around 4 cm closer than my Apollon). The focus throw is much shorter than on the Apollon overall though....Show more →
Looking at the samples, it confirms what you said about the lens regarding its sibling, the Apollon. I find the rendering more contrasty indeed and quite different.
I’m glad I went for the Apollon when Kamii-san told me he could make a last one for me., well before it went back in production. I do prefer the rendering of the Apollon based on what I see here.
Not throwing shades on the 35 1.4, it’s just my preference, but it’s interesting and it’s exactly as you said when you guessed the difference between the two.
p.29 #19 · MS-Optics lenses Image and Discussion Thread
FrozenInTime wrote:
Those look good, and the close focus works well.
My original release Apoqualia does show more glow, and really ugly in front of focus bokeh,
The idea of a black paint one has been on my mind - though diminished, as I guess not brass construction.
Thanks! Yes, I don't think any of the new versions are brass and the advertised weight is same for all 3 new versions (95g). I haven't measured the weight of my BP version yet but it doesn't feel heavy like a brass lens would be expected to be.
p.29 #20 · MS-Optics lenses Image and Discussion Thread
More samples with the Apoqualia 35/1.4 re-release on my Sony A7CII from yesterday and Friday:
Mostly around Nakameguro, including Awaodori action in the evening: https://photos.app.goo.gl/meyN5JfW2YCucLcZA
I used various apertures, including f2, f1.4, f8, f2.8, f4 on these shots. The Awaodori action shots were all at f2 (at first) or f1.4 (later as it got darker). ISO went up as it got darker since I was shooting at 1/500s with Auto-ISO to try to freeze the action. I positioned myself next to a stack of event sponsor lanterns that shone a nice red light on the performers. There were some rainshowers during the Awaodori performances and some of the late shots include some "vignetting" from my umbrella.
I used a helicoid adapter so some plant shots were taken closer than the normal MFD.
Here are 80 comparison shots between Apoqualia 35/1.4 (re-release) on my A7CII and Apollon 36/1.3 (original launch batch) on my A7C. All are SOOC JPEGs straight out of camera with similar settings on both cameras. I tried to frame the shots as close to each other as I could but since I was switching between 2 cameras, there were some variations to my position and framing here and there.
As per Fred's suggestion, I stopped down Apollon to the midwaya position between the 2 dots (the one next to f1.3 and the one on the right from that) which should be very close to Apoqualia's wide open aperture for all of the wide aperture shots, while Apoqualia was kept wide open. There are also some stopped down infinity type shots where I set Apoqualia to f8. I noticed that my Apollon's f8 is about 1 stop darker than my Apoqualia's f8 and the aperture opening looks visually smaller on Apollon at that position, so I tried to set Apollon to f5.6+ to compensate for most of the stopped down shots, where exposure times also seemed to match pretty well.
The overall rendering and results look quite similar actually, I think Apollon shows somewhat lower contrast and Apoqualia shows more vignetting (possibly due to being wide open) and stuff at the edges gets a bit sharper on Apoqualia vs. on Apollon. The colors, esp. greens look a bit different too, but there could also be some impact from A7CII vs. A7C. In these shots they look closer to each other than I was expecting.
As for handling differences, my Apollon has fairly light focus and aperture movement (i.e. the rings move easier / with less force applied), while my Apoqualia has a bit heavier resistance (more torque required) for both rings. Both move smoothly, just require different levels of torque. I prefer the lighter movements of Apollon from handling perspective.
, well before it went back in production. I do prefer the rendering of the Apollon based on what I see here.