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Archive 2023 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf

  
 
RoamingScott
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p.39 #1 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


bernardl wrote:
And by the way (for Scott) it is not correct to write that other Nikons never show a "wrong" ISO value. They do every time you use auto ISO if you push on the ISO button.


They do not show that value unless you're in Auto ISO and start holding the ISO button. That exists to "preview" what ISO you'll be shifting to if you toggle back to manual ISO. I'm sure you know you can even change that ISO value while in Auto ISO as a means of preparing to switch back and forth.

You shouldn't be pressing ISO during Auto ISO unless you're moving back to manual, so yes, a Nikon, in normal use, will never show you an ISO value it's not set to, except for the preview described above.




Oct 19, 2023 at 11:00 AM
Max Power
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p.39 #2 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


shujert wrote:
What is it about the Zf that you're finding lacking when compared to the Df? I loved the Df, so color me curious.


I can't answer for him, but I transitioned from a Df to a Z6 and the handling was a little eye opening. I truly liked the Df, even coming from an 810, but when I got the Z6, the grip and the lighter weight allowed me to ditch the neck strap and go with a wrist strap, even for all day events. I didn't realize how much I would like that. Now I only use the Df for screwdriver lens use.



Oct 19, 2023 at 11:18 AM
Jepser
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p.39 #3 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


I First test with pixel-shift, on my lunch-break. Nothing artistic, only wanted to try the feature. Since the weather is lousy I went into a church. First reflection is that the ZFs cpu is realy fast, secondly pixel-shift eats batteries quick. I made no adjustment in merging or exporting, first there are three 100% crops then the orifinal photo resized. Result: a perfectly good 96mp photo Voigtländer Nokton 58/1.4.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/199106434@N08/albums/72177720312063534



Oct 19, 2023 at 11:40 AM
1bwana1
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p.39 #4 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


highdesertmesa wrote:
Coming from the digital Ms, first impressions of the Zf may be less enthusiastic than expected. But the more time I spend using the Zf, the more I find myself reaching for it over my M.


Like I made a point of saying, I believe that muscle memory and familiarity injects bias into our initial interactions with new equipment. This can be either a negative or positive way. So, it is important to keep these early comment in the context of that.

I am always happy to hear that someone has found something that they gel well with. Shoot what makes you happy and inspires you.

Steve




Oct 19, 2023 at 12:32 PM
sputnik
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p.39 #5 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf




shujert wrote:
What is it about the Zf that you're finding lacking when compared to the Df? I loved the Df, so color me curious.


Well, it’s still early days. BUT, it’s my first flippy screen and the only redeeming factor is you can hide. Then again so can the XPro 3.

It feels a little cluttered compared to my X-T3 but also a bit limited when it comes to dials and buttons. The build quality and heft feels good but at the same time I whish it was lighter. I guess the ergo is worse than I anticipated.

I’ll report back when I’ve spent some time with it and used it with a couple of different lenses.



Oct 19, 2023 at 12:32 PM
nhlducks35
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p.39 #6 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


One nitpick I have (coming from an XT5) is that you cannot assign the d-pad to any custom functions like you can on the Fuji. On the Fuji that gives me 4 extra controls that I can use for self-timer, film simulations, exposure metering, etc.

I understand that the Zf doesn't have the AF joystick like the Fuji but the touch screen AF works pretty well and you can easily customize how much or where the area to touch is.



Oct 19, 2023 at 02:40 PM
gheller
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p.39 #7 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


sputnik wrote:
Well, it’s still early days. BUT, it’s my first flippy screen and the only redeeming factor is you can hide. Then again so can the XPro 3.

It feels a little cluttered compared to my X-T3 but also a bit limited when it comes to dials and buttons. The build quality and heft feels good but at the same time I whish it was lighter. I guess the ergo is worse than I anticipated.

I’ll report back when I’ve spent some time with it and used it with a couple of different lenses.



This is *precisely* why I cancelled my 2 preorders from Nikon. Once you add the (mandatory IMO) grip and a modern lens, the form factor (retro style) goes out the window.

If they eventually introduce a retro grip to match the colors (I ordered brown and red) as well as a retro lens lineup, I may reconsider.



Oct 19, 2023 at 02:53 PM
kriskunisch
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p.39 #8 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


My ZF arrived today. I feel somewhat conflicted about the camera.

On one hand, the camera is right up my alley. I love film photography and own far too many 35mm cameras:
- Nikon F
- Nikon F3
- Leica M6
- Leica M4
and at face-value the ZF captures the manual/analog shooting experience.

It's definitely a more capable camera than my old Z6 , but I don't quite care for the ZF in hand.

1. Although it is larger than my F3 (a brass brick), my hand feels somewhat cramped with my thumb navigating the array of buttons.

2. Even with the kit 40mm lens, the camera feels slightly off balance. This is likely due to the lack of purchase that I think that I have when holding the camera.

3. It's not a film camera (stick with me, read the next sentence). The F3 and F are bricks, with the former having a very similar grip (reference/index point), however the romance of film (and the fact it's not littered with buttons) makes it easy to overlook whatever ergonomic flaws it may have.

Perhaps with the ZF being a 'new' camera, I expect for other modern/comfortable accommodations despite its attempts to look 'classic'.

4. The D5 dilemma. Yea...until the arrival of the ZF, this was my only digital body. It replaced the Z6 and the D850. Whenever I take it out, it's an event...but apart from the weight, it is a camera that just stays out of my way and the files are so easy to work with.

5. In order for it to work, I have to add other things which changes everything about why I was drawn to the camera in the first place.







Oct 19, 2023 at 06:19 PM
OffTrail
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p.39 #9 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


kriskunisch wrote:
My ZF arrived today. I feel somewhat conflicted about the camera.

On one hand, the camera is right up my alley. I love film photography and own far too many 35mm cameras:
- Nikon F
- Nikon F3
- Leica M6
- Leica M4
and at face-value the ZF captures the manual/analog shooting experience.

It's definitely a more capable camera than my old Z6 , but I don't quite care for the ZF in hand.

1. Although it is larger than my F3 (a brass brick), my hand feels somewhat cramped with my thumb navigating the array of buttons.

2. Even with the kit 40mm
...Show more

Man, I could have written this. Well, without the conflict.

The first thing I did was compare the Zf to my F, F3, and FE. Just today, in fact, I had it out with the Voigtlander 40 f/1.2 as well as my F with the 5cm f/2. There's really no comparison in terms of feel. The Zf feels fine from a build quality perspective and it's what you expect at the price point these days, but it's not a professional tool the way the F/F3 were. It was never going to be. And you're right that it's cramped compared to a film camera, where there's often just very little to interface with. But I'm not conflicted at all about the camera, as it's looking like a great buy for how I'll be using it. But your criticisms are all valid.

And the D5 dilemma... I get exactly what you're saying. Your "out of the way" description is exactly how I would describe the D5. It's all utility and the files are excellent. I tested both for astro last night and a couple of landscapes today, and then some other random shooting. I'm finding that I ultimately prefer the D5's files when using the same lenses. There's not a world of difference by any means, but I guess I'm used to the D5's files. I'm sure I can close that gap once I shoot the Zf more. And I will be shooting it a lot more, because there are things that the Zf can do that the D5 simply can't. IBIS is a big one, hosting that Voigtlander turned out to be a huge one, but mostly I just wanted a digital camera that can do what the D5 does if I need it to, just without being the size of the D5.

For my needs, it's still a win. The Zf has the autofocus that so far looks to be a step forward from the D5, it's got great image quality from base ISO to sky-high, it's a fantastic host for my manual F-mount glass, and IBIS opens up a lot of opportunities for shooting where I might otherwise would've brought a tripod. And it's more or less the same size as the F and F3 that I actually will take anywhere.



Oct 19, 2023 at 07:14 PM
shujert
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p.39 #10 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


Would one of you guys mind posting a photo of the Zf alongside a F3? I have a F3, and I'm curious what the size difference is.


Oct 19, 2023 at 07:32 PM
bernardl
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p.39 #11 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


I still own a D5 (also owned a D6 at some point)…. but hardly ever use it since I bought a Z9 nearly 2 years ago.

I have to say that I am surprised that some of you guys thought the Zf could be a possible replacement. They are totally different cameras in terms of UX. I would look at a second hand Z9 instead. More expensive but much closer to the D5.

On the other hand, having owned both the D5 and Sony a9II at the sane time, I found the D5 to still have a better AF in many ways. So the assessment that the Zf tops the D5 in terms of AF is super impressive to me. It confirms the other reports I’ve had that the Zf has one of the best AF on the market which completely changes the market positioning of Nikon IMHO. Their mid range camera is now very competitive AF wise.

It also makes me consider very seriously the Zf since I sometimes now shoot video with Z8 and Z9 and end up either having to use my GFX100II for stills or have to switch lenses which results in wasted time. I am now thinking about adding a Zf…



Oct 19, 2023 at 08:39 PM
kriskunisch
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p.39 #12 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


bernardl wrote:
I have to say that I am surprised that some of you guys thought the Zf could be a possible replacement. They are totally different cameras in terms of UX. I would look at a second hand Z9 instead. More expensive but much closer to the D5.


Why not? I was open to considering a more compact alternative for different applications. My D5 started exclusively as a wildlife camera, but eventually became my digital camera of choice (replacing both the Z6 and D850).

The ZF is a much more compact system that has some notable advancements. There is no debating that. The D5 is over 8 years old and in that time a lot of technical advancements have been made since its release.

I suppose in this exercise, I found that despite the technical advancements that have been made by more recently released cameras, the ergonomics in hand and the output (and workflow ease) is what really resonates with me...less so about AF tracking, subject recognition, aesthetics, etc.

These processes are all certainly exhausting, but I am definitely glad to have tried the ZF. It's a sharp camera.


Edited on Oct 19, 2023 at 09:45 PM · View previous versions



Oct 19, 2023 at 09:08 PM
ggweci
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p.39 #13 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


shujert wrote:
Would one of you guys mind posting a photo of the Zf alongside a F3? I have a F3, and I'm curious what the size difference is.


Here’s a review that compares them:

https://richardhaw.com/2023/10/14/review-nikon-zf/

And a Reddit post showing them together:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Nikon/comments/16q4y7s/first_hands_on_with_the_new_zf_and_some_thoughts/?rdt=38956



Oct 19, 2023 at 09:12 PM
highdesertmesa
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p.39 #14 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


kriskunisch wrote:
My ZF arrived today. I feel somewhat conflicted about the camera.

On one hand, the camera is right up my alley. I love film photography and own far too many 35mm cameras:
- Nikon F
- Nikon F3
- Leica M6
- Leica M4
and at face-value the ZF captures the manual/analog shooting experience.

It's definitely a more capable camera than my old Z6 , but I don't quite care for the ZF in hand.

1. Although it is larger than my F3 (a brass brick), my hand feels somewhat cramped with my thumb navigating the array of buttons.

2. Even with the kit 40mm
...Show more

---------------------------------------------

OffTrail wrote:
Man, I could have written this. Well, without the conflict.

The first thing I did was compare the Zf to my F, F3, and FE. Just today, in fact, I had it out with the Voigtlander 40 f/1.2 as well as my F with the 5cm f/2. There's really no comparison in terms of feel. The Zf feels fine from a build quality perspective and it's what you expect at the price point these days, but it's not a professional tool the way the F/F3 were. It was never going to be. And you're right that it's cramped compared to a
...Show more

I think I figured out what it is that makes the camera awkward to hold even compared to my M11M. First, the left back of the camera is all LCD, so my left thumb can't be pressed against the back of the camera like it can on the M (the M screen is smaller and more in the middle of the back of the camera). Second, there is no thumb grip like I have installed on the M. Having a place for a very secure thumb press/grip on either side makes a world of difference.

I have found that leaving the LCD turned inward like the X-Pro 3 and leaving it that way allows my left thumb to press against and grip the left side of the camera. Wow, what a difference. Now if someone would just make a convoluted hotshoe thumb rest for the right side, I'd be set. I'm sure someone will.

I am a bit baffled they didn't make the grip on the front right of the camera like it was on the Df.



Oct 19, 2023 at 09:31 PM
RoamingScott
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p.39 #15 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


From the Reddit post: “more pro feeling than the Z9”



ggweci wrote:
Here’s a review that compares them:

https://richardhaw.com/2023/10/14/review-nikon-zf/

And a Reddit post showing them together:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Nikon/comments/16q4y7s/first_hands_on_with_the_new_zf_and_some_thoughts/?rdt=38956




Oct 19, 2023 at 09:40 PM
kriskunisch
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p.39 #16 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


OffTrail wrote:
And I will be shooting it a lot more, because there are things that the Zf can do that the D5 simply can't. IBIS is a big one, hosting that Voigtlander turned out to be a huge one, but mostly I just wanted a digital camera that can do what the D5 does if I need it to, just without being the size of the D5.


I think this was really what I was after when I decided to try out the ZF. I hope the ZF works out for you!



Oct 19, 2023 at 09:40 PM
OffTrail
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p.39 #17 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


bernardl wrote:
I still own a D5 (also owned a D6 at some point)…. but hardly ever use it since I bought a Z9 nearly 2 years ago.

I have to say that I am surprised that some of you guys thought the Zf could be a possible replacement. They are totally different cameras in terms of UX. I would look at a second hand Z9 instead. More expensive but much closer to the D5.

On the other hand, having owned both the D5 and Sony a9II at the sane time, I found the D5 to still have a better AF in many ways.
...Show more

I never thought it would be a replacement, but I wanted roughly equal capability in a smaller package, and that seemed like a real possibility knowing that the Z9 tech has trickled down. Handling compromises are what they are, but if the tech is there, use it!

And to be clear regarding AF, I mostly mean the eye-AF with people and animals in less dynamic instances is where I'm feeling an advancement the most. When I got the D5, the reliability of Auto-Area AF in finding faces was a game-changer. I no longer had to compose around a focus point, and instead I was letting the camera find the face and I had whatever composition I wanted. With the Zf, the eye-AF is taking that a step further.

But as far as action, I've only had one afternoon trying the Zf. Had the dogs chasing frisbees right towards me, and I was trying to see what Auto-Area chose to do. On several runs, the Zf grabbed an eye and seemed to stick with it. It stuck around the snout a few times on others. There were one or two instances where it grabbed the human in the frame at the start of the run and didn't pick up the dog at first. I probably should have used a limited area AF mode to keep it from focusing on the human. I also had a hard time with the EVF blackout, so I'm sure I let the dog exit the frame more than a few times.

So there's a lot to learn about mirrorless AF on my end, but I did have some flashes of success.



Oct 19, 2023 at 09:41 PM
PixiPhotography
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p.39 #18 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf



Looks like the Z6 III will be much of the same thing. Which in a sense is fine, I am happy with 24.5mp, but I am REALLY hoping for a video camera powerhouse with internal 12-Bit 4:2:2 4K ProRES RAW or NRAW. It's a big ask, I know but it's enough to keep it above the competition but not Z8/Z9 level. But I think the best we'll get on the Z6 III is 10-Bit 4:2:0 H.265



Oct 19, 2023 at 09:52 PM
ilkka_nissila
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p.39 #19 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


The ISO value that is shown when holding down the ISO button in Auto ISO mode is not just the ISO that the camera would switch to, if Auto ISO is turned OFF but it's the ISO value that the camera will use if it can achieve correct exposure without changing it (in Auto ISO mode). Auto ISO will increase or decrease ISO from this value depending on the needs of the situation to prevent over- or underexposure. The meaning of this number (shown when the ISO button is depressed) is the same as the numbers on the ISO dial of the Zf: it's the user requested ISO value. The ISO value that the camera actually uses is displayed in the LCD and EVF in both types of cameras.


Oct 20, 2023 at 08:07 AM
ilkka_nissila
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p.39 #20 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


ArizonaImage wrote:
Looks like the Z6 III will be much of the same thing. Which in a sense is fine, I am happy with 24.5mp, but I am REALLY hoping for a video camera powerhouse with internal 12-Bit 4:2:2 4K ProRES RAW or NRAW. It's a big ask, I know but it's enough to keep it above the competition but not Z8/Z9 level. But I think the best we'll get on the Z6 III is 10-Bit 4:2:0 H.265


Given the actual performance of the Zf, the Z6 III if it is based on the following
* same performance as the Zf, including autofocus features and new customizations, burst performance, sensor etc.
* Z6 family stuff: tilting screen, not fully articulating, MC-DC2/WR-R10 connector for remote flash and remote camera triggering, modern controls from the Z6 family
* improvements to custom function allocation
* video modes similar to Zf
* CFexpress type B / XQD 1st slot, SD UHS-II 2nd slot
* lower price by 300-400€ to account for the absence of the old-style brass dials, etc.

Such a Z6 III would do very well in the marketplace, I believe.

There is no chroma subsampling involved in RAW recording. I don't see how you'd get 4:2:2 RAW video; there is no such format.

The issue with the RAW video and Prores 422 HQ is that they require the storing of very large amounts of data quickly and continuously. This is incompatible with the practical limitations of small cameras. The camera would probably run too hot. The nice thing about what Nikon is offering is that they made the Z9 large enough to not overheat (period) and the smaller Z8 smaller but still large enough that it won't overheat in practice if you use the coolest-running memory cards. But as you go smaller and smaller with the camera size, overheating becomes a real issue.



Oct 20, 2023 at 08:20 AM
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