RoamingScott wrote:
I didn't even mention the absolute insanity of the inclusion of a UHS-I Micro-SD slot, but most people seem fine with it, which tells me all I need to know about the target market of this camera.
What's wrong with the Micro SD slot? You don't have to use it if you don't want to. Nikon said they weren't able to fit two SD card slots without significantly altering the shape of the camera.
Personally I love the Micro SD addition since I have a slot for these in my smartphone. That would make it very easy to transfer photos to my phone when I'm on the road. I actually prefer it over 2x SD slots.
Personally I would have preferred 1x CFxB slot instead of two of anything, it is a much more reliable media. Unfortunately Nikon got absolutely grilled for it in the first gen bodies. Some of it was deserved by working pros who need backup, most of it was from the loud crowd that wants backup of their cat photos.
I wish companies would just abandon SD in non-entry level cameras and move forward, I feel more comfortable with the 1x CFxB in my Z7 than the dual SD in my Z5.
CFExpress takes up a lot more space internally, and I’m sure there was not room without massively altering the design. As I use my second card for backup, I would have no issues with the MicroSD, and I think it’s a great solution to allow for a backup in a body this shape.
BPsmith511 wrote:
Personally I would have preferred 1x CFxB slot instead of two of anything, it is a much more reliable media. Unfortunately Nikon got absolutely grilled for it in the first gen bodies. Some of it was deserved by working pros who need backup, most of it was from the loud crowd that wants backup of their cat photos.
I wish companies would just abandon SD in non-entry level cameras and move forward, I feel more comfortable with the 1x CFxB in my Z7 than the dual SD in my Z5.
As much as I enjoy the ten seconds it takes to empty a days’ shooting on my CFE card, I’m fine with SD.
I’ll also plug an old MicroSD I have laying around into the camera, just in case I forget the SD. Maybe I’ll set it to also get JPEGs, maybe I’ll have it do nothing.
jaygould wrote:
What's wrong with the Micro SD slot? You don't have to use it if you don't want to. Nikon said they weren't able to fit two SD card slots without significantly altering the shape of the camera.
Personally I love the Micro SD addition since I have a slot for these in my smartphone. That would make it very easy to transfer photos to my phone when I'm on the road. I actually prefer it over 2x SD slots.
Fragile, easy to lose, slow bandwidth. Everything is wrong with MicroSD. The world has moved on.
Ok, you want to shoot in backup mode. Now you're rate limited to UHS-I write speeds once the buffer fills.
Whatever, you don't shoot backup. You'll shoot RAW on your SD, and JPEG on your Micro, but you want to get a batch of JPEGs off...now you're down to fiddling with Snapbridge, or digging out a janky micro to sd adapter, putting wear on your Micro contacts every time you do that. Or you're plugging the camera into USB, which I've read enough horror stories over the years to prefer not to do that.
Like I said...the world has moved on. I have a hard time squaring small cameras back to X-T2 days having dual SD and Nikon being unable to pull it off. They already made the body bigger than the Zfc. Bump it up the extra 2mm it would take to accommodate the dual SD and everyone wins. There's no reason this camera needs CFE, and equally there's no reason a camera with its capabilities should be hamstrung by an archaic SD standard.
Just another caveat that people will deny any common sense analysis on, because like I said, they are SO HUNGRY for a more-capable-than-Z6-but-not-as-big-or-expensive-as-a-Z8 body that common sense leaves the building.
One thing that might be possible depending on the software that they put on the Zf is copying the contents of the Micro to the SD from the menu, that way if you split your files between them, they could be consolidated onto the SD before pulling it and dumping it. That said, you're again hamstrung by UHS-1 read speeds, so this won't be a fast operation.
Desmolicious wrote:
So here is my Z7 w FTZ and what I think was Nikon's smallest lens - the lovely 45mm 2.8 AI-P. This is to get an idea as to what it would look like on the Zf.
As you can see the FTZ is bigger than the lens!
The 45 AI-P is a chipped lens, so it should work perfectly with the FTZ, as it has electronic contacts, right?
Wrong. Because, yet again, as Nikon refused to put an aperture follower on the FTZ, you cannot use the aperture ring on the lens. You have to set it to min aperture and use a control dial on the camera body to set the aperture.
So even with the very cool Zf, with it's knobs n' stuff, you still cannot fully utilize all what chipped F mount lenses are capable of. And that's what gets me about the FTZ - if Nikon added an aperture follower all it does would be to expand the functionality of older lenses. Newer G and E-lenses would still work perfectly so its not like it would limit anything.
Insert sad trombone sound effect here ----->
Good point...all that to mount your cool old lens, and the aperture control is still locked to a command wheel. Not an issue so much when using a Z7/Z8/Z9, but totally defeats the purpose of the Zf knobgasm.
So which comes first...the FTZ with rabbit ears, or the FTZ with the screwdrive motors
Nikon should really implement an optional background backup/mirror feature on cameras that have asymmetric-speed card interfaces, to overcome the buffer implications of using both cards. It would shoot all new images to the faster card, then copy those images in the background to the slower card. It would consume just one or two frame buffers, so could be done when the camera is both idle and active. It would continue until done, even after powered off.
RoamingScott wrote:
Fragile, easy to lose, slow bandwidth. Everything is wrong with MicroSD. The world has moved on.
Ok, you want to shoot in backup mode. Now you're rate limited to UHS-I write speeds once the buffer fills.
Whatever, you don't shoot backup. You'll shoot RAW on your SD, and JPEG on your Micro, but you want to get a batch of JPEGs off...now you're down to fiddling with Snapbridge, or digging out a janky micro to sd adapter, putting wear on your Micro contacts every time you do that. Or you're plugging the camera into USB, which I've read enough horror stories over the years to prefer not to do that.
Like I said...the world has moved on. I have a hard time squaring small cameras back to X-T2 days having dual SD and Nikon being unable to pull it off. They already made the body bigger than the Zfc. Bump it up the extra 2mm it would take to accommodate the dual SD and everyone wins. There's no reason this camera needs CFE, and equally there's no reason a camera with its capabilities should be hamstrung by an archaic SD standard.
Just another caveat that people will deny any common sense analysis on, because like I said, they are SO HUNGRY for a more-capable-than-Z6-but-not-as-big-or-expensive-as-a-Z8 body that common sense leaves the building.
One thing that might be possible depending on the software that they put on the Zf is copying the contents of the Micro to the SD from the menu, that way if you split your files between them, they could be consolidated onto the SD before pulling it and dumping it. That said, you're again hamstrung by UHS-1 read speeds, so this won't be a fast operation....Show more →
Oh boy. We, Z6 shooters must come across so desperate for anything. I am not a fan of micro sd either,unless it is just left in slot for that one time you forgot to put the card in, but not as a jpg folder to slow down everything else. The memory slot in battery compartment is a bit worrisome for tripod use, L-plate or what not. Anyhow, as I write now, no plan for ZF on my end. I wonder it still has AA filter. I have no reason to think Nikon removed it…
snapsy wrote:
Nikon should really implement an optional background backup/mirror feature on cameras that have asymmetric-speed card interfaces, to overcome the buffer implications of using both cards. It would shoot all new images to the faster card, then copy those images in the background to the slower card. It would consume just one or two frame buffers, so could be done when the camera is both idle and active. It would continue until done, even after powered off.
It's not like Nikon actually cares about this... the micro SD card slot is just the cynical engineers ticking off the "must have dual card slots" box imposed on them by the marketing department.
Ripolini wrote:
Voigtlander lenses work that way: you have to use the aperture ring on the lens, which is chipped and therefore transfer the information (focal length, maximum aperture & set aperture) to the Z camera. The aperture can be "mechanically" set in 1/3 stop intervals.
I own Zeiss ZF.2 lenses too that I use with the FTZ. Zeiss lenses aperture can be set in half-stop increments. I much prefer to set the lens to min aperture and use the control dial on the camera body to set the aperture. This way I can set the aperture in 1/3 stop intervals and store its value in EXIF data....Show more →
I've been using a Voigtlander SLII 40MM F2 on an Xt3 with a Fringer adapter. That uses the chip so that the camera knows the aperture in use and max. It also allows max aperture focussing and a stop down to set working aperture with a half press of the shutter release. Does the FTZ do that with SLII and Zf2 Zeiss lenses?
Fringer does that with most (but not all) AF Nikon mount lenses too. Does FTZ? Or do the lenses stay at working aperture set on lens all the time?
I have quite a few chipped old (MF) Nikkor lenses and with the FTZ I have to put the lens on it’s lowest aperture (highest nummer) and then use the frontwheel to dial in the aperture. All EXIF information will be recorded. If I don’t set the lens on its lowest aperture, I’ll get an error (ERR).
gyoung143 wrote:
I've been using a Voigtlander SLII 40MM F2 on an Xt3 with a Fringer adapter. That uses the chip so that the camera knows the aperture in use and max. It also allows max aperture focussing and a stop down to set working aperture with a half press of the shutter release. Does the FTZ do that with SLII and Zf2 Zeiss lenses?
Fringer does that with most (but not all) AF Nikon mount lenses too. Does FTZ? Or do the lenses stay at working aperture set on lens all the time?
Cynical would have been making the camera larger, going single-slot, or using the smaller battery.
Doing MicroSD was more work, and we benefit with a better camera.
molson wrote:
It's not like Nikon actually cares about this... the micro SD card slot is just the cynical engineers ticking off the "must have dual card slots" box imposed on them by the marketing department.
Ripolini wrote:
Voigtlander lenses work that way: you have to use the aperture ring on the lens, which is chipped and therefore transfer the information (focal length, maximum aperture & set aperture) to the Z camera. The aperture can be "mechanically" set in 1/3 stop intervals.
I own Zeiss ZF.2 lenses too that I use with the FTZ. Zeiss lenses aperture can be set in half-stop increments. I much prefer to set the lens to min aperture and use the control dial on the camera body to set the aperture. This way I can set the aperture in 1/3 stop intervals and store its value in EXIF data....Show more →
Are you saying you can actively use the aperture rings on your chipped lenses with the FTZ? On my Z7, I need to set the aperture to minimum otherwise I get an error message. Is there a setting in the menu I am missing?
Desmolicious wrote:
Are you saying you can actively use the aperture rings on your chipped lenses with the FTZ? On my Z7, I need to set the aperture to minimum otherwise I get an error message. Is there a setting in the menu I am missing?
I've never found a way to use my chipped Ultron on the FTZ in any other way than you, Huss. I have to set to F22 or I get an error.
You could, of course, simply use a dumb adapter, and then the camera doesn't know about the chip...and then your EXIF is ruined. The camera will still meter appropriately though, and you get to use your aperture ring (what I do for my Helios). One advantage of this is the dumb adapter is appropriately styled to look "retro" and it just lives on my Helios 100% of the time
RoamingScott wrote:
I've never found a way to use my chipped Ultron on the FTZ in any other way than you, Huss. I have to set to F22 or I get an error.
You could, of course, simply use a dumb adapter, and then the camera doesn't know about the chip...and then your EXIF is ruined. The camera will still meter appropriately though, and you get to use your aperture ring (what I do for my Helios). One advantage of this is the dumb adapter is appropriately styled to look "retro" and it just lives on my Helios 100% of the time
It makes me wonder how the chipped native Z mount Voigtlander lenses work. Do those also have to be set to min aperture if in Aperture priority mode?
Desmolicious wrote:
Are you saying you can actively use the aperture rings on your chipped lenses with the FTZ? On my Z7, I need to set the aperture to minimum otherwise I get an error message. Is there a setting in the menu I am missing?
I have the Zeiss ZF (unchipped) 100/2 Makro Planar (a wonderful lens).
I must use the aperture ring with the FTZ. Like with my 40+ y.o. AI 50/1.4. With these lenses though I can't set manually 1/3 stop.
That's why I prefer chipped lenses and using the command dial.
Desmolicious wrote:
It makes me wonder how the chipped native Z mount Voigtlander lenses work. Do those also have to be set to min aperture if in Aperture priority mode?
Ripolini wrote:
I have the Zeiss ZF (unchipped) 100/2 Makro Planar (a wonderful lens).
I must use the aperture ring with the FTZ. Like with my 40+ y.o. AI 50/1.4. With these lenses though I can't set manually 1/3 stop.
That's why I prefer chipped lenses and using the command dial.
Ahhh, ok. So the FTZ acts like a dumb adapter with your unchipped ZF lens. Ok, your experience is the same as the rest of ours! In your original post I read it that you can use the aperture ring on your chipped lenses to set aperture. But this is not thhe case, it needs to be at minimum, then use a control dial.
Of course all Nikon had to to was to add an aperture feeler tab on the FTZ. It would make the Zf so much more enjoyable to use with manual chipped F mount lenses. Le sigh.
. I am not a fan of micro sd either,unless it is just left in slot for that one time you forgot to put the card in, but not as a jpg folder to slow down everything else. The memory slot in battery compartment is a bit worrisome for tripod use, L-plate or what not. Anyhow, as I write now, no plan for ZF on my end. I wonder it still has AA filter. I have no reason to think Nikon removed it…