unchecked wrote:
It's one of those things they needed to add if they intend to sell this camera. The swivel screen has been taking over tilt screens over the last few years.
In video-oriented models especially in the lower price classes, yes. But in my opinion the approach used by Fuji and Nikon which allows the screen to be tilted in multiple directions while staying on or near the optical axis, is probably less likely to break (since the screen is not to the side of the camera) and makes composing a bit easier (for both photo and video when the person operating the camera does not appear in the picture themselves, but obviously not for selfies, selfie videos, or for teleconferencing).
There are reports on this forum as well as elsewhere on the internet about broken swivel-type LCD screens, and I've personally also seen broken hinges on demo cameras' LCD screens of this type (which have likely not been in actual use, just something the customers can play with and the camera can be demonstrated).
Since different applications have different requirements and preferences for the back screen, it makes sense that there are multiple options available from most brands.
As for the Zf, I don't mind the screen either way. The pictures (if they are not fake or just one prototype among several that Nikon is considering) suggest that it'll be similar to the Z fc's screen.
ilkka_nissila wrote:
In video-oriented models especially in the lower price classes, yes. But in my opinion the approach used by Fuji and Nikon which allows the screen to be tilted in multiple directions while staying on or near the optical axis, is probably less likely to break (since the screen is not to the side of the camera) and makes composing a bit easier (for both photo and video when the person operating the camera does not appear in the picture themselves, but obviously not for selfies, selfie videos, or for teleconferencing).
There are reports on this forum as well as elsewhere on the internet about broken swivel-type LCD screens, and I've personally also seen broken hinges on demo cameras' LCD screens of this type (which have likely not been in actual use, just something the customers can play with and the camera can be demonstrated).
Since different applications have different requirements and preferences for the back screen, it makes sense that there are multiple options available from most brands.
As for the Zf, I don't mind the screen either way. The pictures (if they are not fake or just one prototype among several that Nikon is considering) suggest that it'll be similar to the Z fc's screen....Show more →
All valid points. But this phenomenon is indeed happening and it's not just the lower, video class. It's the very top end cameras that stuck with tilt screens. Namely Sony's a1 & a9ii and Nikon's Z9 & Z8. Our middle to lower class cameras have gone swivel. Fujifilm's top end cameras went swivel, so did Canon's R3.
We're not trying to explain why should camera makers make more tilt screens, we're trying to find the reason why despite how more sturdy tilt screens are, camera makers are increasingly choosing to replace existing tilt screens with swivel screens.
Tilt screens found only with (and also not all of) the top end cameras is representative of the state of photography today. We really are not the majority anymore and have not been for quite some time.
unchecked wrote:
All valid points. But this phenomenon is indeed happening and it's not just the lower, video class. It's the very top end cameras that stuck with tilt screens. Namely Sony's a1 & a9ii and Nikon's Z9 & Z8. Our middle to lower class cameras have gone swivel. Fujifilm's top end cameras went swivel, so did Canon's R3.
We're not trying to explain why should camera makers make more tilt screens, we're trying to find the reason why despite how more sturdy tilt screens are, camera makers are increasingly choosing to replace existing tilt screens with swivel screens.
Tilt screens found only with (and also not all of) the top end cameras is representative of the state of photography today. We really are not the majority anymore and have not been for quite some time. ...Show more →
First digital camera I had, a Panasonic G1 had the swivel screen. Nothing new. Its more versatile even for stills than the tilt ones. I dont mind either way
unchecked wrote:
All valid points. But this phenomenon is indeed happening and it's not just the lower, video class. It's the very top end cameras that stuck with tilt screens. Namely Sony's a1 & a9ii and Nikon's Z9 & Z8. Our middle to lower class cameras have gone swivel. Fujifilm's top end cameras went swivel, so did Canon's R3.
We're not trying to explain why should camera makers make more tilt screens, we're trying to find the reason why despite how more sturdy tilt screens are, camera makers are increasingly choosing to replace existing tilt screens with swivel screens.
Tilt screens found only with (and also not all of) the top end cameras is representative of the state of photography today. We really are not the majority anymore and have not been for quite some time. ...Show more →
I think the reason or at least one of the biggest reasons there are more swivel screens is the growth in video popularity causing more cameras to come with swivel screens. Lower end consumer oriented cameras are trying to please a big audience with a wide range of uses. In that case it makes sense that they would choose the swivel screen more than the tilt screen. I'd guess that a majority of buyers of lower end consumer oriented cameras aren't going to consider a swivel screen a deal breaker while a larger percentage might consider a tilt screen a deal breaker (especially those that prioritize video).
That isn't the case for higher end cameras where you could see more resistance to both tilt and swivel screens so manufacturers have to really consiider what the primary use will be. A high end, high res camera aimed at landscape photographers with a swivel screen is likely to be a non-starter for a pretty decent percentage of prospective buyers. In any case it's always a trade off so it's a bit of choose your poison for the manufacturers until they develop a way to provide a reliable screen that serves both needs.
molson wrote:
I don't follow the YouTube lemmings.
That's why I'm using a Nikon Z8 instead of a Canon R5 - it's one of the few remaining cameras for more serious photo and video work.
Ah yes, 'serious' work. Getting down to super serious business! Hang on a sec...what makes something 'serious'? Because as far as I can tell, there are many YouTube channels that get more views than traditional broadcast or streaming, and have revenue that supports the livelihoods of entire crews of people.
One popular channel I follow 'Sampson Boat Co' follows the absolutely jaw dropping woodworking, carpentry, and engineering that goes into rebuilding a 100 year old racing yacht. The last video was posted 3 hours ago from this writing, and it's been watched by 47,000 people in that time alone. The entire enterprise is supported by Youtube and people who have donated because they watch these vlogs.
Just like with Cable TV, there is a lot of crap on YouTube, but there are also creators doing interesting projects and documenting that at a high level. All of this is being done with traditional vlogging cameras from Sony, DJI, and other makes. So when it comes to YouTube, I suggest you stop being a snob. They're doing 'serious work'.
speedgraphic wrote:
Ah yes, 'serious' work. Getting down to super serious business! Hang on a sec...what makes something 'serious'? Because as far as I can tell, there are many YouTube channels that get more views than traditional broadcast or streaming, and have revenue that supports the livelihoods of entire crews of people.
One popular channel I follow 'Sampson Boat Co' follows the absolutely jaw dropping woodworking, carpentry, and engineering that goes into rebuilding a 100 year old racing yacht. The last video was posted 3 hours ago from this writing, and it's been watched by 47,000 people in that time alone. The entire enterprise is supported by Youtube and people who have donated because they watch these vlogs.
Just like with Cable TV, there is a lot of crap on YouTube, but there are also creators doing interesting projects and documenting that at a high level. All of this is being done with traditional vlogging cameras from Sony, DJI, and other makes. So when it comes to YouTube, I suggest you stop being a snob. They're doing 'serious work'.
molson wrote:
Just because they way someone uses their camera seems "serious" to you doesn't automatically make it serious, or even slightly interesting, to me.
I just have to laugh at this lack of self awareness and snobbery at this point. I've worked with commercial pros and artists for over 20 years now and nobody talks like this...nobody that went anywhere in this business anyway. Carry on though! I'm sure it's all VERY SERIOUS.
speedgraphic wrote:
I just have to laugh at this lack of self awareness and snobbery at this point. I've worked with commercial pros and artists for over 20 years now and nobody talks like this...nobody that went anywhere in this business anyway. Carry on though! I'm sure it's all VERY SERIOUS.
I don't care what keyboard warriors with nothing to back up their bragging claim they know...
- Expeed 7 processor
- LCD and EVF specs are the same as Z6II (same size and resolution)
- It can shoot 10-bit H.265 HEVC video (SDR/HLG/N-log)
- 4k 30p is full size 60p is cropped
- 1080 120p
- AF (273 focus points) comes with features from Z8/Z9 with 3D tracking
- New feature related to AF (new for Nikon cameras) – no idea what it is (yet)
- Magnesium Alloy body
- High Extended Shooting for RAW and HEIF
- Shutter selection options: Mechanical / Electronic Front-Curtain / Auto
- Size: 144mm x 101mm x 57mm
- IBIS
- Max. shutter: 1/8000s
- Black camera body only (for now)
- 24.4 MP BSI-CMOS sensor
- Weight: 700g (inc. battery, the Z5 is 590g, the Z6II is 615g )
- Dimensions: 144mm x 101mm
- Up to 30fps (JPG/HEIF)
- 4k 60 video
- USB C PD (fast-charging technology based on the USB-C standard)
- ISO 100-64,000 (for comparison the Z6II ISO range is 100-51,200)
- EN-EL15 battery
- The Z f logo is moved to the left (the Zfc has it on the right)
- Dual memory card slots (SD+MicroSD) – this is probably why the first reports came out with only -one memory card slot, the second slot could be hidden and be used just like the internal memory on some cameras
- Pixel Shift: new high-res mode will be implemented for the first time in a Nikon mirrorless camera
- August-September announcement, shipment before the end of 2023
- Improved autofocus compared to Z5/Z6II
- A few different lens kits/bundles will be available in the $2,000-$2,500 price range
- Price for body only: $1,999
- One of the bundles will be with the Nikkor Z 40mm f/2 (SE) lens (no new lens will be introduced with the Zf)
- Very similar (but improved) design/layout from the Nikon Zfc
- Small LCD screen on top for aperture display
- New 3rd function on the sub lever of the shutter speed dial (besides photo/video) for B&W mode (B&W/Photo/Movie)
- Has a little grip/bump like the Nikon Df (see the mockup pictures)
- Better build quality compared to the Nikon Zfc
- Fully articulating screen
Looks great and as rumoured being a slightly tweaked Zfc body.
Based on that first image, I expect that the top plate will have the exact same layout as the Zfc, with nothing new (other than the B&W setting on one of the dials and what looks to be a threaded shutter release).
The major difference for the body is the (much appreciated) larger EVF. And hopefully more robust build.
Adding in the FF sensor and IBIS is exactly what most had been asking for when the Zfc dropped. This should be a very popular camera.
Pair it with the SE 28 and 40 lenses and you have a nice compact kit, that looks great and puts out excellent IQ.
AdaptedLenses wrote:
These specs don’t look like a $2k camera.
I'm going to look at it as if they took the Z6ii, took away the CFexpress slot, added the new chip and left out the expected inflation that comes along with it, treat it as no net loss or gain and kept it at $2k.
I think the dimensions are larger than the Z6II, so bigger than the Zfc.
ggweci wrote:
Looks great and as rumoured being a slightly tweaked Zfc body.
Based on that first image, I expect that the top plate will have the exact same layout as the Zfc, with nothing new (other than the B&W setting on one of the dials and what looks to be a threaded shutter release).
The major difference for the body is the (much appreciated) larger EVF. And hopefully more robust build.
Adding in the FF sensor and IBIS is exactly what most had been asking for when the Zfc dropped. This should be a very popular camera.
Pair it with the SE 28 and 40 lenses and you have a nice compact kit, that looks great and puts out excellent IQ....Show more →
There are some advantages over the Z6 II, specifically in video. 10-Bit internal video vs 8-bit in the Z6 II, plus Expeed7 which should improve the AF and overall speed. If this is a newly developed 24mp BSI sensor, it might have it beat in low light.
Yes, correct. Sorry, I meant same style as the Zfc, just tweaked in looks. Size does appear to be wider and tall (for larger EVF I assume) and thicker for the add little grip.
AdaptedLenses wrote:
I think the dimensions are larger than the Z6II, so bigger than the Zfc.
Ever since my first digital, a Nikon D200, I've appreciated that Nikon moved the shutter release button onto the grip, forward and down from the top deck of the camera. To make an old fashioned top deck shutter release camera after decades of evidence that the modern forward and down release is superior seems like a mistake.
nhmorgan wrote:
Things I need from this camera to buy and use it:
1) Acceptable AF. It needs to be at least close to the level of the z8/z9, which are still lagging behind sony, but still very good enough that it hits moving targets with reliability.
2) EN-EL15 battery. Without this, I'm out. I need to be able to throw this in the bag as a fun second camera and don't want the extra weight and space of a different battery especially if traveling.
3) Not a stacked sensor. I don't need a fast readout from this camera and don't want it. I would like the sensor to be on par with or out perform the z6/z6ii sensor. If it's on par with the z6 camera, great. Very few people will want or need 20fps from this camera, including me, who shoots sports for money. This is a fun walk-around/second camera for event photos that aren't action. I would rather have dynamic range than speed.
4) The retro dials don't get in the way of using the camera effectively and the design doesn't feel cheap or plasticy. I absolutely love shooting my Nikon FE bodies. They feel good in the hand and have a really tactile experience to them. Part of that is having the aperture on the lens though, and Nikon decided to completely remove that from their mirrorless lenses. At least the Sony lenses still have clickable aperture. The control ring on higher end nikon Z lenses is a waste of space. So, that part of the user experience isn't coming back. It looks like the exposure comp dial is large and on the right hand side of the camera (from the shooters perspective). I don't like this on sony cameras and wouldn't like it on the Zf. Exposure comp was well done on the Nikon film cameras and with the button on later film and Z cameras.
5) A mechanical shutter. I understand why the z8/z9 don't have this, but I do miss it on occasion. There are many times where I run into banding issues that can't be avoided with the z8 and z9.
Things I'm ambivalent about, but maybe leaning toward:
1) IBIS. Not a deal breaker for me, but if this is going to be a walkaround camera, it would be beneficial.
2) Flippy screen. i don't like these. For video Im sure they are great. They mess up your lines for photography. You can't tilt without moving it to the side and when youre trying to line up a shot and the screen is 4 inches off the lens axis, it messes things up. There is a reason that pro cameras avoid these. I feel like if it wasn't there we would only hear about how its missing from youtubers who like these, but photographers will (rightfully) complain about a flimsy flip screen if its there. I like being able to shoot low with the Z8 screen in portrait mode so I guess the flip screen helps that, but it detracts aesthetically for me and feels cheap and isn't ideal.
3) USB-PD is nice, but should be standard these days anyway.
4) I don't really care about video features as this doesn't really seem targeted to the video crowd. I don't think this needs to be an everything to everyone camera, but I guess the flippy screen suggests that nikon thinks otherwise.
Things I wish it had, but don't think it will:
1) a better screen or EVF. Pick one, but both are a bit lackluster in 2023 on the z6/z7 lines.
2) One CF express type B. I would take one more reliable card than two less reliable ones, especially since CF-B cards are what I'm going to already have spares of in my bag.
3) Black and Silver. Avoid the color models that will sit on shelves and take up manufacturing capacity. 3 people want a seafoam green Zf.
4) a vintage styled FTZ. I actually enjoy using my MF lenses on my Z8. The focus peaking makes using them quick and accurate. They will look stupid on a Zf with the current FTZ.
...Show more →
I’m guessing that Nikon will include the features desired by people who will make this their only camera rather than those few pros who will buy it for laughs and giggles.
