p.21 #1 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
arbitrage wrote:
I was offered 5% off in Canada also.
May I know which store in CA?
May 19, 2023 at 12:47 PM
osv2 Offline • • • • [X]
p.21 #2 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
tzhang4284 wrote:
I’ve found stepper model lenses on Sony to be a step or two slower than linear AF lenses. Good examples are the Sony 200-600mm and Sigma 100-400mm compared to the Sony 100-400mm - the latter lens seems to be a bit faster in my experiences with all three.
the fe200-600 does not have a stepper motor, sony doesn't use that crap, but yeah i'd agree that the fe100-400 that has one linear voice coil af motor probably racks focus quicker.
even sigma got the message that linear voice coil af motors are better, they put one in their flagship 60-600, and you can't get that lens on z-mount nor rf-mount.
e-mount has three 600mm supertelephoto zooms to choose from, and how many are in z-mount/rf-mount? none, zero
so it's false to claim that canikon has better choices at long focal lengths, when they actually don't have any!
here is the new sigma linear voice coil af motor, it's also being used in other sigma lenses:
May 19, 2023 at 01:26 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.21 #3 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
tzhang4284 wrote:
The Sony 200-600mm is a much better value proposition for most wildlife shooters who “don’t have the budget” for a 400mm 2.8 or 600mm f4. If i can afford both a 400mm f4.5 and a 800mm f6.3 (almost $10k for both and carrying both is much larger in volume than a 200-600mm), I might as well as just stretch and buy a 400mm f2.8 + TCs or 600mm f4 + TCs.
Main value proposition of the 400mm f4.5 is that it’s smaller but it’s not necessarily better than the 200-600mm. Nikon has no answer for that yet beyond a slide in a presentation. The idea of Nikon being better in wildlife is true for a certain midrange of photographers that’s probably over presented on this forum but at the lower end, there isn’t an answer for the 200-600mm yet and maybe Nikon’s premium super telephotos are marginally better than Sony’s for having a built in TC but you’re paying for it too....Show more →
I have the Sony 200-600 f/5.6-6.3 G. It is a nice lens and a decent price. It is really big, however. If Sony doesn't announce a similar lens to the Nikon 400 f/4.5S, then I will likely switch just for that lens. For me I am quite confident it will be better. Importantly where I shoot at dusk and dawn I can often get closer to wildlife and that is when the stop faster aperture at 400mm will really come in handy. YMMV, of course but a 200-600 for me is not a replacement for a prime that is a stop faster in the middle of range and has very similar reach at the same aperture at the long end.
So, yes Nikon has not released it long zoom yet (rumors on the Nikon board is that it will be a 180-600 f/5.6-6.3 and it will be announced in July), but that matters zero to me as that sort of lens is not what I want. The 400 f/4.5S is and Nikon has a lens like that and Sony does not.
I can also put together the rest of my kit well and at a favorable price with Nikon. I am not saying Nikon is better than Sony, but they way it looks right now and into the future I am saying that Nikon is better for me than Sony. (To be fair, Sony is better for my wife than Nikon.) As I said above I think suggesting one company is just better than another overall just doesn't make sense anymore. The real question is what is best for each individual person.
That more or less matches my experience with the Nikon 400mm f4.5. It's nice, but too short for birds, and once you add a TC it doesn't seem quite as sharp as the Sony 200-600. The Sony actually does okay at 840mm with a 1.4x attached, but the Nikon really falls down if you use a 2x to get to 800mm. I think a lot of people just don't realize how good that Sony 200-600 really is.
May 19, 2023 at 02:23 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.21 #5 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
osv2 wrote:
the fe200-600 does not have a stepper motor, sony doesn't use that crap, but yeah i'd agree that the fe100-400 that has one linear voice coil af motor probably racks focus quicker.
even sigma got the message that linear voice coil af motors are better, they put one in their flagship 60-600, and you can't get that lens on z-mount nor rf-mount.
e-mount has three 600mm supertelephoto zooms to choose from, and how many are in z-mount/rf-mount? none, zero
so it's false to claim that canikon has better choices at long focal lengths, when they actually don't have any!
here is the new sigma linear voice coil af motor, it's also being used in other sigma lenses:
p.21 #10 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
There are no OEM native mirrorless mount T&S lenses for Z, RF & E AFAIK. If we include adapting, then we probably need to count all that could be adapted.
And for non OEM.....what are we going to complain about, sub par AF?
p.21 #11 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
I know the 400/4.5 is a well received lens, but man I wish they'd have ported the 500 PF to Z instead.
400 is too short for a lot of things you'd want to use it for, wildlife wise, where 500 suddenly becomes much more usable. 400 is often WAY too long for things like landscape details. I just can't quite wrap my head around where such a lens would warrant the investment Nikon is asking for at that price.
Adding a TC to the 500 does almost nothing to the IQ and you get a much more interesting focal length than 560mm.
I think the 400 would shine where you can perfectly frame your subject and not much more, but that's just my impression from seeing images and reading impressions. Looking through the flickr group for it (which, amusingly, @lukemeup created), you can see quite a number of images are simply way too overcropped.
p.21 #12 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
RoamingScott wrote:
I know the 400/4.5 is a well received lens, but man I wish they'd have ported the 500 PF to Z instead.
400 is too short for a lot of things you'd want to use it for, wildlife wise, where 500 suddenly becomes much more usable. 400 is often WAY too long for things like landscape details. I just can't quite wrap my head around where such a lens would warrant the investment Nikon is asking for at that price.
Adding a TC to the 500 does almost nothing to the IQ and you get a much more interesting focal length than 560mm.
I think the 400 would shine where you can perfectly frame your subject and not much more, but that's just my impression from seeing images and reading impressions. Looking through the flickr group for it (which, amusingly, @lukemeup@ created), you can see quite a number of images are simply way too overcropped....Show more →
This is what they need to switch over to Z-mount IMO....
p.21 #13 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
tzhang4284 wrote:
The Sony 200-600mm is a much better value proposition for most wildlife shooters who “don’t have the budget” for a 400mm 2.8 or 600mm f4. If i can afford both a 400mm f4.5 and a 800mm f6.3 (almost $10k for both and carrying both is much larger in volume than a 200-600mm), I might as well as just stretch and buy a 400mm f2.8 + TCs or 600mm f4 + TCs.
Main value proposition of the 400mm f4.5 is that it’s smaller but it’s not necessarily better than the 200-600mm. Nikon has no answer for that yet beyond a slide in a presentation. The idea of Nikon being better in wildlife is true for a certain midrange of photographers that’s probably over presented on this forum but at the lower end, there isn’t an answer for the 200-600mm yet and maybe Nikon’s premium super telephotos are marginally better than Sony’s for having a built in TC but you’re paying for it too....Show more →
Edit: I was looking at wrong lens.
p.21 #14 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
molson wrote:
That more or less matches my experience with the Nikon 400mm f4.5. It's nice, but too short for birds, and once you add a TC it doesn't seem quite as sharp as the Sony 200-600.
400/4.5 is a solution looking for a problem that doesn't exist these days, it just doesn't fit in, but back in the day it was in demand... sigma 400/5.6 apo, canon 400/5.6L, etc.
molson wrote:
I think a lot of people just don't realize how good that Sony 200-600 really is.
they don't know how good it is and they can't admit that e-mount totally owns the 600mm supertelephoto lens category, with three lenses.
canikon never made a 600mm supertelephoto with af, it's pathetic and sony took advantage of their forced marketing tactics by filling the gap with the xlnt fe200-600.
p.21 #15 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
RoamingScott wrote:
I know the 400/4.5 is a well received lens, but man I wish they'd have ported the 500 PF to Z instead.
400 is too short for a lot of things you'd want to use it for, wildlife wise, where 500 suddenly becomes much more usable. 400 is often WAY too long for things like landscape details. I just can't quite wrap my head around where such a lens would warrant the investment Nikon is asking for at that price.
Adding a TC to the 500 does almost nothing to the IQ and you get a much more interesting focal length than 560mm.
I think the 400 would shine where you can perfectly frame your subject and not much more, but that's just my impression from seeing images and reading impressions. Looking through the flickr group for it (which, amusingly, @lukemeup@ created), you can see quite a number of images are simply way too overcropped....Show more →
The 500pf is probably still selling pretty well as it’s quite unique. They can get Z users to buy the 400 4.5 now then a few years later release a Z 500PF (once F mount version fades out) to generate more sales from that group.
May 19, 2023 at 06:00 PM
osv2 Offline • • • • [X]
p.21 #16 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
Dultimate wrote:
If we are going by the forum anecdotes, then it would seem that some will make the switch specifically for Nikons long glass. They did themselves a service by making something that Sony seems to be lacking/ignoring.
if we go by forum anecdotes, there have been far more sales of 200-600 lenses than nikon pf lenses, it's something that nikon acknowledged that they needed when they put it in their roadmap over three years ago, but then failed to deliver it... of course those long nikon pf lenses have been on backorder since day 1, nikon couldn't deliver that either, so claiming that people are switching for lenses that they can't buy isn't a true statement.
the 200-600 has a huge advantage in that it's a semi-parfocal zoom, which makes it useable for video... shot framing can't be controlled with a prime, so those nikon pf lenses are a poor choice for video.
even nikon knows that video is important these days, but they fail at it in part because they don't have a video-oriented lens lineup... no ff motorized zooms for instance, while sony has at least five ff pz powered zooms.
if you are a hybrid event shooter, nikon is possibly the worst brand choice you could make.
p.21 #17 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
osv2 wrote:
if we go by forum anecdotes, there have been far more sales of 200-600 lenses than nikon pf lenses, it's something that nikon acknowledged that they needed when they put it in their roadmap over three years ago, but then failed to deliver it... of course those long nikon pf lenses have been on backorder since day 1, nikon couldn't deliver that either, so claiming that people are switching for lenses that they can't buy isn't a true statement.
the 200-600 has a huge advantage in that it's a semi-parfocal zoom, which makes it useable for video... shot framing can't be controlled with a prime, so those nikon pf lenses are a poor choice for video.
even nikon knows that video is important these days, but they fail at it in part because they don't have a video-oriented lens lineup... no ff motorized zooms for instance, while sony has at least five ff pz powered zooms.
if you are a hybrid event shooter, nikon is possibly the worst brand choice you could make.
...Show more →
I see that you're incapable of being objective when it comes to Sony or Nikon.
I'm sure there's a ton of people running out to purchase the Sony 200-600 lens because of its HUGE advantage for Video. Tons!
May 19, 2023 at 06:23 PM
osv2 Offline • • • • [X]
p.21 #18 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
Dultimate wrote:
I see that you're incapable of being objective when it comes to Sony or Nikon.
I'm sure there's a ton of people running out to purchase the Sony 200-600 lens because of its HUGE advantage for Video. Tons!
oh great, another luddite who hates video
you should be asking yourself why sony has won all of those contracts with the biggest newsgathering agencies... hint: it ain't just for stills...
p.21 #19 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
osv2 wrote:
oh great, another luddite who hates video
you should be asking yourself why sony has won all of those contracts with the biggest newsgathering agencies... hint: it ain't just for stills...
I'm pretty sure it's not for their A7 series and its video functions, which trail the competition in feature set, sometimes by a fair margin. It's certainly not for using a 200-600 lens for video.
Not saying there's not a use case for that but it's certainly minimal. They didn't even have subject tracking in video until the RV so it's not as if using a long focal length lens in video was a great experience.
p.21 #20 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
chez wrote:
Glass is much more important than cameras these days. Sony has by far the best overall selection of glass.
By far! Except not if you want to select a 300 f/2.8. The A9 was released approximately 6 years ago as a sports/action oriented camera and Sony is still missing a very popular sports lens. I know they finally announced its coming. Someday.
