p.10 #2 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
I always thought the rumor was that releasing the D700 as a "mini D3" murdered the D3 and Nikon decided it was a terrible idea, thus not repeating that with the D5 and D6 generations (and thus the D750 going downmarket and actually being a misnamed D650. As well as, though some people don't like when I say this, even the D8x0 arguably being a smidge downmarket as far as size and robustness).
They waited a fair bit longer this time though so maybe the financial calculations are different. Thom Hogan also indirectly implied that they may have intended the Z8 to be a different camera but pivoted when a new sensor wasn't ready. So, anyway, there's my random spillage of thoughts for the night, hope you enjoyed it.
p.10 #3 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
you did choose the right term, "rumor", if you had the D3 with the buffer enhancement. the D700 did complement the D3 and it did an excellent job of doing just that. the D300 also complemented the D3 too.
p.10 #6 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
CanadaMark wrote:
You generally won't see that in flagship camera bodies (especially the larger ones with built in grip) because camera performance and other features are crippled by such a slow slot like a SD UHSII. That also prevents you from using the second slot as a backup assuming you also want to get the full potential out of the camera and/or access all of it's features.
p.10 #8 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
NikonClio64 wrote:
No surprise that Thom Hogan had a Z8 prior to release. He's reporting his findings, in a series of posts: including real-world battery life
p.10 #9 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
New video from Matt Granger. On tap is overheating and battery life
Notes:
Z9 officially rated by Nikon for 2:05:00 of continuous internal video recording in all non-raw formats. For Z8 there are only two official ratings so far; 2:05:00 for 4K 60P w/oversampling off but only 1:30:00 for 8K 30P H.265 8-bit.
ProRes 4K 60p 10-bit, the Z8 got a hot-card warning at 10:30, hot-camera warning at 10:40, high-heat camera warning at 19:45 and a thermal shutdown at 30:26. In comparison, the Z9 had no warnings or shutdowns for same test.
N-Raw 8.3K 60p. Z8 thermal shutdown at 26:30, vs no shutdown on Z9.
8K 30p 10-bit H.265, thermal shutdown at 59:00 vs no shutdown on Z9.
4K 120p 10-bit H.265, hot-card and hot-camera warning "quickly", high-heat warning at 12:00, thermal shutdown at 35:00. No warnings or shutdown on Z9. This was with 20 minutes of cooling vs previous test, run in cool room.
ProRes Raw 4.1K 60p. Hot-card warning at 1:00, hot-camera at 7:30, then ran out of card space.
4K 60p 8-bit H.265. hot warning at 1:39:00, battery died at 1:45:00.
8K 30p 8-bit H.265, hot-card warning at 17:00, hot-camera warning at 28:00, battery died at 1:16:00.
All above tests were done indoors in "cool conditions".
p.10 #10 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
RobCD wrote:
Yep, I'll continue to believe that CIPA is nonsense if you care about anything other than internet camera wars.
To be fair, any battery-life measurement will not be a good representation for all the various shooting scenarios. CIPA is useful for comparing the relative battery life between cameras for a well-defined specific scenario, from which users can extrapolate useful information by scaling to how many shots they typically take per unit of time.
p.10 #11 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
RobCD wrote:
Yep, I'll continue to believe that CIPA is nonsense if you care about anything other than internet camera wars.
No, not nonsense if you keep it in context. You need to be aware of the CIPA protocol for testing. In that sense it serves as a decent (not perfect ) comparator of battery life. Since it is highly unlikely that your shooting style matches the testing protocol you need to understand that you will get a very different shot count in different use cases.
p.10 #12 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
snapsy wrote:
New video from Matt Granger. On tap is overheating and battery life
Notes:
Z9 officially rated by Nikon for 2:05:00 of continuous internal video recording in all non-raw formats. For Z8 there are only two official ratings so far; 2:05:00 for 4K 60P w/oversampling off but only 1:30:00 for 8K 30P H.265 8-bit.
ProRes 4K 60p 10-bit, the Z8 got a hot-card warning at 10:30, hot-camera warning at 10:40, high-heat camera warning at 19:45 and a thermal shutdown at 30:26. In comparison, the Z9 had no warnings or shutdowns for same test.
N-Raw 8.3K 60p. Z8 thermal shutdown at 26:30, vs no shutdown on Z9.
8K 30p 10-bit H.265, thermal shutdown at 59:00 vs no shutdown on Z9.
4K 120p 10-bit H.265, hot-card and hot-camera warning "quickly", high-heat warning at 12:00, thermal shutdown at 35:00. No warnings or shutdown on Z9. This was with 20 minutes of cooling vs previous test, run in cool room.
ProRes Raw 4.1K 60p. Hot-card warning at 1:00, hot-camera at 7:30, then ran out of card space.
4K 60p 8-bit H.265. hot warning at 1:39:00, battery died at 1:45:00.
8K 30p 8-bit H.265, hot-card warning at 17:00, hot-camera warning at 28:00, battery died at 1:16:00.
Most of those are pretty respectable times for a smaller body. ProRes 4K60p probably the most disappointing/concerning as it's one that many would want to use. I'd wonder how it would fare with a dummy battery/no battery and on external power.
I use 4K 120p 10-bit H.265 most of the time, but usually the bursts are under a minute each. Will be interesting to see how that holds up in the Texas heat of the summer.
This really goes to show what an absolute MONSTER the Z9 is for video. One of the best out there.
p.10 #13 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
now, that well defined specific scenario (which would probably need to vary by each camera type) is that one that would be usage on a daily basis or is it one to try to stress the camera system as much as possible?
p.10 #14 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
1bwana1 wrote:
No, not nonsense if you keep it in context. You need to be aware of the CIPA protocol for testing. In that sense it serves as a decent (not perfect ) comparator of battery life. Since it is highly unlikely that your shooting style matches the testing protocol you need to understand that you will get a very different shot count in different use cases.
In that context it is a very useful metric.
i'm afraid as a metric it is out of band and out of date as cameras become more complex. the test has to become more tailored. there is more involved than battery draw it needs to be the draw at different states of setup. there is no one deciding metric
p.10 #15 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
sjms wrote:
i'm afraid as a metric it is out of band and out of date as cameras become more complex. the test have to become more tailored. there is more involved than battery draw it needs to be the draw at different states of setup. there is no one deciding metric
All fine and good until you realize that the way every brand draws power could be radically different depending on use cases.
I.E. I suspect the Nikon Z8/Z9 EVF in dual stream 120hz mode draws more power than the higher res A1 EVF. Shooting to CFE draws more power than shooting to SD. Things like this would vary the CIPA number radically between brands, and isn't at all indicative of how the camera will actually work in YOUR hands the way YOU shoot.
CIPA is ONLY helpful when comparing cameras as similar as the Z8/Z9, since they share tech and battery draw rates.
Anyways, it's very obvious at this point that the Z8 CIPA rating is not at all indicative of actual performance, so hopefully this stupid conversation dies off soon.
p.10 #17 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
snapsy wrote:
To be fair, any battery-life measurement will not be a good representation for all the various shooting scenarios. CIPA is useful for comparing the relative battery life between cameras for a well-defined specific scenario, from users users can extrapolate useful information by scaling to how many shots they typically take per unit of time.
Yes, agree and unless CIPA gives us rating for multiple shooting scenarios, I don't see how the CIPA ratings can be very useful. For any two cameras where the CIPA rating is relatively close, I bet that you could run tests for multiple well-defined scenarios and depending on each scenario you could show either camera as having better battery life (or a greatly reduced gap between them).
I know that it's probably not financially realistic for CIPA to test multiple shooting scenarios but that's why I feel that CIPA is more useful for internet cameras wars than it is for evaluating two cameras. Sure, it tells you if two cameras kinda, sorta have similar battery life or not but that's about it.
p.10 #18 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
RobCD wrote:
Yes, agree and unless CIPA gives us rating for multiple shooting scenarios, I don't see how the CIPA ratings can be very useful. For any two cameras where the CIPA rating is relatively close, I bet that you could run tests for multiple well-defined scenarios and depending on each scenario you could show either camera as having better battery life (or a greatly reduced gap between them).
I know that it's probably not financially realistic for CIPA to test multiple shooting scenarios but that's why I feel that CIPA is more useful for internet cameras wars than it is for evaluating two cameras. Sure, it tells you if two cameras kinda, sorta have similar battery life or not but that's about it....Show more →
I just noticed that Nikon quotes a burst rating separate from the usual CIPA rating.
Z9: CIPA w/EVF + energy saving photo mode on: 740 shots
Z9: CIPA w/LCD + energy saving photo mode on: 770 shots
Z9: "Photo Mode (Burst Photography)": 5,310 shots
Z8: CIPA w/EVF + energy saving photo mode on: 340 shots
Z8: CIPA w/LCD + energy saving photo mode on: 370 shots
Z8: "Photo Mode (Burst Photography)": 2,280 shots
p.10 #20 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
sjms wrote:
yes it does and notice the slight difference in the numbers. what is missing though is a definition of "Photo Mode (Burst Photography)"
From the Z9 manual, the burst battery rating figure is described in footnote 4:
"In-house measurements. Image quality set to JPEG normal, image size to “Large”, shutter speed to 1/250 s, shutter-release button pressed halfway for 3 s and focus cycled from infinity to minimum range three times before a burst of six shots, after which the viewfinder is turned on for 5 s and then turned off and the standby timer allowed to expire. This process is then repeated. Measured with a NIKKOR Z 70–200mm f/2.8 VR S lens. [Viewfinder only] was selected for monitor mode."
