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Leica M11 reliability

highdesertmesa
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Leica M11 reliability

Fred Miranda wrote:
Appreciate the input. It appears that Leica has been progressively enhancing the reliability of their firmware with each update, and version 1.6.1 has had a significant impact. Nonetheless, some photographers are still encountering occasional lock-ups. At least we don't hear about as many incidents of cameras being DOA as we used to.

It is my hope that they have identified any potential hardware defects and that the M11M has already been modified to address these issues. I'm wondering what the upcoming M11-P will bring to the table.

I think there are the known things that Leica does with every P upgrade, then there are some other things we hope for.

Given: Leica script on top and no red dot
Likely: Higher capacity internal memory
Possible: Brass top added back to the black version
Hopeful (since there is a history of shutter improvements for the P version): EFCS and/or further dampening of the shutter sound – but part of me is worried about EFCS introducing more firmware issues.

Not expecting much more than that.

May 06, 2023 at 11:08 AM

Fred Miranda
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Leica M11 reliability

highdesertmesa wrote:
I think there are the known things that Leica does with every P upgrade, then there are some other things we hope for.

Given: Leica script on top and no red dot
Likely: Higher capacity internal memory
Possible: Brass top added back to the black version
Hopeful (since there is a history of shutter improvements for the P version): EFCS and/or further dampening of the shutter sound – but part of me is worried about EFCS introducing more firmware issues.

Not expecting much more than that.

I would welcome the addition of EFCS to an M body, which would be a first for such a camera. If the shutter sound is adjusted and the option to keep the shutter open when the camera is turned off or on standby is provided, it could prevent unnecessary shutter movements when not taking pictures. Additionally, enabling shooting without exposure reading from the sensor, similar to the M-A film body, could result in faster start-up and faster shooting.

May 06, 2023 at 11:14 AM

LBJ2
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Leica M11 reliability

highdesertmesa wrote:
I think there are the known things that Leica does with every P upgrade, then there are some other things we hope for.

Given: Leica script on top and no red dot
Likely: Higher capacity internal memory
Possible: Brass top added back to the black version
Hopeful (since there is a history of shutter improvements for the P version): EFCS and/or further dampening of the shutter sound – but part of me is worried about EFCS introducing more firmware issues.

Not expecting much more than that.

"Likely: Higher capacity internal memory" I certainly hope this is a new trend for Leica cameras. Wish Sony would pick up on this too. Regardless I'm loving 64GB internal, very happy to see the M11-M doubled the same.

I thought I read black and brass has some environmental problem; but apparently my silver didn't? ( strange)

*EFCS also has a potential Bokeh downside as is well known among long time Sony photographers. Not sure if this has been mitigated on newer Sony cameras since I tend to shoot electronic/silent mode almost all the time with my Sony camera.

May 06, 2023 at 11:20 AM

highdesertmesa
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Leica M11 reliability

LBJ2 wrote:
"Likely: Higher capacity internal memory" I certainly hope this is a new trend for Leica cameras. Wish Sony would pick up on this too. Regardless I'm loving 64GB internal, very happy to see the M11-M doubled the same.

I thought I read black and brass has some environmental problem; but apparently my silver didn't? ( strange)

*EFCS also has a potential Bokeh downside as is well known among long time Sony photographers. Not sure if this has been mitigated on newer Sony cameras since I tend to shoot electronic/silent mode almost all the time with my Sony camera.

Yes, EFCS could give all sorts of grief to those unfamiliar with the need to switch to mechanical at higher shutter speeds when shooting at large apertures. Hopefully if Leica adds EFCS, they will add an auto-switch-to-mechanical option to the Hybrid shutter. Fujifilm has had this type of EFCS for years now.

The brass wasn't the issue, it was the black chrome process. The black paint used on the M11 works just fine on brass – that's the finish on the new M6: anti-scratch black paint on brass. Even though the paint is unlikely to "brass", if it does, at least it won't be like previous black chrome Ms, which would wear to show the silver plating between the paint and the brass.

May 06, 2023 at 11:25 AM

mark1958
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Leica M11 reliability

I am not sure if this matters but I only use SanDisk Extreme/extreme pro SD cards..

May 06, 2023 at 12:20 PM

mark1958
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Leica M11 reliability

what about water sealing if a new release?

May 06, 2023 at 12:21 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Leica M11 reliability

Might it be possible for the M11-P to feature a tiltable LCD? Leica has been reducing the minimum focusing distance in their newer lenses to facilitate live view shooting, which suggests that they may consider incorporating a tiltable LCD in a future version. One the other hand, this may be incorporated in a future M12 as the "P" model typically only undergoes minor cosmetic changes.

May 06, 2023 at 02:59 PM

johnvanr
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Leica M11 reliability

prh5551 wrote:
Diglloyd is currently reviewing the M11 Monochrome. He has experienced white and black pixels. He is also comparing it to the Sony A7RV.

He will find problems. That his mission in life...

May 06, 2023 at 03:55 PM

1bwana1
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Leica M11 reliability

mark1958 wrote:
what about water sealing if a new release?

I am not sure they can ever do water sealing on an M camera. The mount and focusing mechanisms probably cannot operate at the close tolerances required with a rubber gasket/O Ring. There are decades of lenses with no weather sealing that mount on the M bodies. Weather sealing is only as good as the most leaking component.

May 06, 2023 at 04:24 PM

Steve Spencer
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Leica M11 reliability

Fred Miranda wrote:
Might it be possible for the M11-P to feature a tiltable LCD? Leica has been reducing the minimum focusing distance in their newer lenses to facilitate live view shooting, which suggests that they may consider incorporating a tiltable LCD in a future version. One the other hand, this may be incorporated in a future M12 as the "P" model typically only undergoes minor cosmetic changes.

I don't know. I could see Leica doing that. Keep in the the M10P got a touchscreen that the M10 did not have. I think a tillable screen is about at the same level in terms of change. Although it might be too much of a physical change, I still think it is in the realm of possibility.

May 06, 2023 at 05:33 PM

el.mediocre
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Leica M11 reliability

Fred Miranda wrote:
Might it be possible for the M11-P to feature a tiltable LCD? Leica has been reducing the minimum focusing distance in their newer lenses to facilitate live view shooting, which suggests that they may consider incorporating a tiltable LCD in a future version. One the other hand, this may be incorporated in a future M12 as the "P" model typically only undergoes minor cosmetic changes.

I could see them trying this out on the next Q body and seeing how well it is received on that platform first.

Then again, I could also see them being against it as it might "ruin" the whole spirit of photography thing... which I think is nonsense given that we now have live view shooting in the first place.

May 06, 2023 at 08:36 PM

1bwana1
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Leica M11 reliability

Fred Miranda wrote:
Might it be possible for the M11-P to feature a tiltable LCD? Leica has been reducing the minimum focusing distance in their newer lenses to facilitate live view shooting, which suggests that they may consider incorporating a tiltable LCD in a future version. One the other hand, this may be incorporated in a future M12 as the "P" model typically only undergoes minor cosmetic changes.

Anything is possible of course. But, realistically I think the M11-M is showing us the more likely rear screen that will be used in the M11-P. Historically it seems the M and P models have the same screen. Leica upgraded the rear screen to Sapphire glass on the M11-M and I am thinking that is what the M11-P will also have.

I don't expect any of the M11 family of cameras to have tilting screens.

May 06, 2023 at 09:50 PM

BastianK
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Leica M11 reliability

I randomly have those freezes with the M10, so I am not 100% sure the M11 is any worse here.

May 07, 2023 at 06:40 AM

rji2goleez
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Leica M11 reliability

Just to add my experience but I've not had any freezes with the latest firmware. The camera has been most reliable . . .

May 07, 2023 at 07:30 AM

SlowDriver
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Leica M11 reliability

LBJ2 wrote:
Regardless I'm loving 64GB internal, very happy to see the M11-M doubled the same.almost all the

The Hasselblad X2D has 1 TB of internal memory, and it is cheaper than the M11, surely Leica can do better...

May 07, 2023 at 11:50 AM

panos.v
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Leica M11 reliability

Desmolicious wrote:
Any reports of the M11 scratching film? Oh wait, wrong thread.

If you use the M11 to scan film it adds scratches.

May 07, 2023 at 02:05 PM

1bwana1
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Leica M11 reliability

panos.v wrote:
If you use the M11 to scan film it adds scratches.

Yes, but only if you enable the M6 emulation menu option.

May 07, 2023 at 03:52 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Leica M11 reliability

Despite having the latest firmware (1.6.1), many M11 owners are expressing their dissatisfaction in this discussion thread. https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/357248-m11-freeze-issues-merged/page/74/#comment-4767926

It is desirable for Leica to resolve the issue promptly to avoid customers resorting to a class action lawsuit. As for myself, I have chosen to keep using my M10-R and wait until the problem is completely resolved.

May 09, 2023 at 09:37 AM

retrofocus
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Leica M11 reliability

Wonder if the Leica M11 monochrome experiences something similar - or if this newer Leica M camera received a silent hardware update to avoid the freezing issue. Bit concerning that both the M11 and the revamped M6 have issues with some batches it seems. Leica Camera might have cut too many quality control and manufacturing positions and lost some of the formerly famous reliability in product quality.

May 09, 2023 at 10:09 AM

Dhu1
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Leica M11 reliability

It still happens, but definitely less than when the camera first launch. Updated firmware has helped but I think there is something inherently wrong with the hardware. Somebody I know had to send it in recently since it locked up and never came back. We’ll see if Leica addresses this later on like they did with M9 bodies.

May 12, 2023 at 10:01 AM

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