retrofocus wrote:
Wonder if the Leica M11 monochrome experiences something similar - or if this newer Leica M camera received a silent hardware update to avoid the freezing issue. Bit concerning that both the M11 and the revamped M6 have issues with some batches it seems. Leica Camera might have cut too many quality control and manufacturing positions and lost some of the formerly famous reliability in product quality.
There is no quality control at Leica - neither in manufacturing nor in service. I had one of those infamous scratching new M6s that of course was shipped with those signed quality inspection cards. I sent it in for repair to Leica NJ - they sent it back saying they repaired it but it had the exact same problem of scratching the film. Not only did they not repair it, but they did not check to see if their 'repair' had fixed anything.
And this is for something incredibly simple and basic.
So for something complicated like an M11? Hard pass.
Desmolicious wrote:
There is no quality control at Leica - neither in manufacturing nor in service. I had one of those infamous scratching new M6s that of course was shipped with those signed quality inspection cards. I sent it in for repair to Leica NJ - they sent it back saying they repaired it but it had the exact same problem of scratching the film. Not only did they not repair it, but they did not check to see if their 'repair' had fixed anything.
And this is for something incredibly simple and basic.
So for something complicated like an M11? Hard pass.
From what I can gather, it sounds like it’s always been like this.
Just know that even the gold standard, Canon Service, still does that “we can’t find anything wrong” BS from time to time. But at least they tell you days later not months later.
Seems like it's hit or miss with a reliable M11. The copy I had gave me no issues, but clearly a lot of people are experiencing them. On the other hand, all three M10/P/R variants I've had were 100% reliable over the years I had them.
johnvanr wrote:
He will find problems. That his mission in life...
Well, there are known problems we always know to check with every new Monochrom from Leica: sensor bifurcation and hot pixels (white) at high ISO or during long exposures. Previously, Leica solved the latter issue by adding manual pixel mapping to the menu for both the Q2M and the M10M. Why they left pixel mapping off the M11M is beyond me.
He also will praise things when they actually are good. He's going on and on right now about the CV 28 Ultron and CV 21 1.4 Nokton when used on the M11M.
highdesertmesa wrote:
Well, there are known problems we always know to check with every new Monochrom from Leica: sensor bifurcation and hot pixels (white) at high ISO or during long exposures. Previously, Leica solved the latter issue by adding manual pixel mapping to the menu for both the Q2M and the M10M. Why they left pixel mapping off the M11M is beyond me.
He also will praise things when they actually are good. He's going on and on right now about the CV 28 Ultron and CV 21 1.4 Nokton when used on the M11M.
I didn't read what he wrote about the Voigtlander 28/2 II and 21/1.4 but if he praised them, I would have to agree!
highdesertmesa wrote:
Well, there are known problems we always know to check with every new Monochrom from Leica: sensor bifurcation and hot pixels (white) at high ISO or during long exposures. Previously, Leica solved the latter issue by adding manual pixel mapping to the menu for both the Q2M and the M10M. Why they left pixel mapping off the M11M is beyond me.
He also will praise things when they actually are good. He's going on and on right now about the CV 28 Ultron and CV 21 1.4 Nokton when used on the M11M.
I actually don’t follow him. It’s just that whatever I see about him is when he finds stuff no one else found or cared about.
And then there’s the Zeiss employee who told me that he and Ming Thein visited Zeiss HQ and asked all these technical questions that were extremely detailed, but in reality have little impact on whether an image is strong or not.
He just seems to be an another wavelength than I am, which is fine.
1bwana1 wrote:
You guys are giving me nightmares with this QC stuff and my M11. That is why I still have my M10-P.
What’s to say something won’t pop up about that camera?
I’m trying to sell my M10 and just have to trust my M11, like I do with all the gear I have. So far, my only failure has been with the Canon 5D with its infamous mirror problem, which of course happened during the few times I did shoot for others and didn’t carry a backup.
I just think in general, there are issues with modern tech where the manufacturers act if everything is okay and we all know that’s not necessarily true. That’s what scares me more about AI and self-driving cars than about my cameras. My GPS is regularly wrong and they want me to believe my car can drive itself? No way…
johnvanr wrote:
I actually don’t follow him. It’s just that whatever I see about him is when he finds stuff no one else found or cared about.
And then there’s the Zeiss employee who told me that he and Ming Thein visited Zeiss HQ and asked all these technical questions that were extremely detailed, but in reality have little impact on whether an image is strong or not.
He just seems to be an another wavelength than I am, which is fine.
Only thing I can see Lloyd giving Zeiss a hard time about would be focus shift, but who knows. Maybe Zeiss stopped caring about that once everyone moved to mirrorless.
highdesertmesa wrote:
Only thing I can see Lloyd giving Zeiss a hard time about would be focus shift, but who knows. Maybe Zeiss stopped caring about that once everyone moved to mirrorless.
She didn’t tell me they were giving Zeiss a hard time, just that their questions were on such a detailed technical level.
I think he actually likes Zeiss: Zeiss offered me to write for their blog. I said no, because that meant I couldn’t write independently for my own blog when it came to Zeiss lenses. They also offered Lloyd Chambers and his stuff did appear on their blog. I like Zeiss lenses as well, but I like my journalistic independence more (which, of course, is one reason why I couldn’t make my blog work financially, among other reasons).
Desmolicious wrote:
There is no quality control at Leica - neither in manufacturing nor in service. I had one of those infamous scratching new M6s that of course was shipped with those signed quality inspection cards. I sent it in for repair to Leica NJ - they sent it back saying they repaired it but it had the exact same problem of scratching the film. Not only did they not repair it, but they did not check to see if their 'repair' had fixed anything.
And this is for something incredibly simple and basic.
So for something complicated like an M11? Hard pass.
Not excusing the problems like has with some new M6 batches, but their service is simply no longer used to service 35 mm film-based cameras as in the old days. Of course they do the mechanical parts as in the M-A and M-P series, but nobody would actually put a film in, take exposures and then look at the results - certainly not with in-house development which is not available but also not just by looking at the film strip itself to see scratches etc. This all is likely not included in their step-to-step list how to service these kind of cameras.
retrofocus wrote:
Not excusing the problems like has with some new M6 batches, but their service is simply no longer used to service 35 mm film-based cameras as in the old days. Of course they do the mechanical parts as in the M-A and M-P series, but nobody would actually put a film in, take exposures and then look at the results - certainly not with in-house development which is not available but also not just by looking at the film strip itself to see scratches etc. This all is likely not included in their step-to-step list how to service these kind of cameras.
The ISO dial on my M6 was defective. All you had to do was look at it and see that - it could not be set to marked values. I mentioned this as a repair item and they ignored it. Two items on my repair invoice - scratches film, defective ISO dial. They were 0 for 2, twice.
I am serious when I say there is no check list and those QC cards are just theater. How else could those 35 FLE II lenses be shipped with broken aperture blades?
Fred Miranda wrote:
I didn't read what he wrote about the Voigtlander 28/2 II and 21/1.4 but if he praised them, I would have to agree!
Me, too! Quotes:
Impressive lens!... The 28/2 can make very appealing images at f/2 with a 3D look to them.
Recommended—grab the Voigtlander M 28/2 Ultron at the ridiculously low price of $899. Ditto for the 21/1.4 28/2, 35/2, 50/2. Superior haptics, superior sharpness, ridiculously high value.
The Voigtlander M 21mm f/1.4 Aspherical is a fantastic lens outperforming Leica 21mm offerings.
Impressive lens!... The 28/2 can make very appealing images at f/2 with a 3D look to them.
Recommended—grab the Voigtlander M 28/2 Ultron at the ridiculously low price of $899. Ditto for the 21/1.4 28/2, 35/2, 50/2. Superior haptics, superior sharpness, ridiculously high value.
The Voigtlander M 21mm f/1.4 Aspherical is a fantastic lens outperforming Leica 21mm offerings.
The Voigtlander 21/1.4 excels as a character lens wide open and as a landscape lens at f/4 and smaller. It surpasses the Leica 21/3.4 SEM at the corners, even at f/5.6 and f/8, although the Leica comes very close.
I am super impressed with the Voigtlander 21mm/f1.4 as well. Incredible images and I have used it mostly for landscapes at f4-5.6 but like it even wide open. Great value
Fred Miranda wrote:
The Voigtlander 21/1.4 excels as a character lens wide open and as a landscape lens at f/4 and smaller. It surpasses the Leica 21/3.4 SEM at the corners, even at f/5.6 and f/8, although the Leica comes very close.
I’ve had the m11 for 2 months now. Popped on the new update since day one. Had 2 freezes since then. Both times had something to do with playback. Only solution was to pop the battery out. When I had the M10 it froze very often for me.
I’ve seen someone mentioned about file size for the m11. It’s actually very small on 60MP(60ish mb) compared to Q2(80mb) and Sony’s 90ish mb files.
If you want it again get it! when I had a m10 and I grabbed a Q2 or A74 I never had the feeling I should grab my m10. Now when I grab my A74 because I need it for the day, I take a look at my m11 and wish it was my companion for the day. I can truly say it’s my favorite camera!
retrofocus wrote:
There is no quality control at Leica - neither in manufacturing nor in service. I had one of those infamous scratching new M6s that of course was shipped with those signed quality inspection cards. I sent it in for repair to Leica NJ - they sent it back saying they repaired it but it had the exact same problem of scratching the film. Not only did they not repair it, but they did not check to see if their 'repair' had fixed anything.
And this is for something incredibly simple and basic.
FWIW I had an original M6 bought new that didn't properly advance the film counter. Fortunately Leica USA offered a five year no-questions-asked warranty at the time, and that WAS fixed. The only other guy I knew then that bought a new M6 found out that it was delivered with a rangefinder that not only was off, but would not calibrate. They did handle it under warranty.
