Checklist When Buying an Used M10
p.1 #1Checklist When Buying an Used M10
Meeting with someone to buy an used M10 tomorrow. The person is a well known professor at a major university, so background should be legit. He claims that it was bought from Leica Miami 2 years ago used, and recently CLAed. I will ask for receipt.
I was lucky to get a good M9 on Craigslist, and I want to make sure I get a good M10 also. I made a checklist on things I should look for while examining the camera.
1. Check for sensor dust physically and take a f22 picture with my 50mm Zeiss Planar against white background to look for dust.
2. Check for dead pixel.
3. Mount my 28mm and 50mm. M10 goes from 24mm to 90mm but the 28mm should be the last visible frame line right?
4. Check receipt.
5. No real way to check shutter count. He send me a JPEG he took today. The file number looks like it's in the 9000s, so I assume that's the shutter count.
6. We agreed to swap driver's license info.
7. Check ISO dial make sure it works. Early M10 ISO dials may fail.
Anything else current M10 owners can think of to make sure I don't get a lemon?
Edited on Aug 16, 2022 at 12:59 AM · View previous versions
I was lucky to get a good M9 on Craigslist, and I want to make sure I get a good M10 also. I made a checklist on things I should look for while examining the camera.
1. Check for sensor dust physically and take a f22 picture with my 50mm Zeiss Planar against white background to look for dust.
2. Check for dead pixel.
3. Mount my 28mm and 50mm. M10 goes from 24mm to 90mm but the 28mm should be the last visible frame line right?
4. Check receipt.
5. No real way to check shutter count. He send me a JPEG he took today. The file number looks like it's in the 9000s, so I assume that's the shutter count.
6. We agreed to swap driver's license info.
7. Check ISO dial make sure it works. Early M10 ISO dials may fail.
Anything else current M10 owners can think of to make sure I don't get a lemon?
Edited on Aug 16, 2022 at 12:59 AM · View previous versions
Aug 13, 2022 at 09:31 PM
p.1 #2Checklist When Buying an Used M10
My M10-P has a feature to check the sensor for dust. I am not sure whether all M10s have that or not but you may want to look into it.
On the last page of the main menu select Sensor Cleaning then select Dust Detection. Follow the instructions.
It is easy fast and works well.
On the last page of the main menu select Sensor Cleaning then select Dust Detection. Follow the instructions.
It is easy fast and works well.
Aug 13, 2022 at 11:50 PM
p.1 #3Checklist When Buying an Used M10
gordec wrote:
Meeting with someone to buy an used M10 tomorrow. The person is a well known professor at a major university, so background should be legit. He claims that it was bought from Leica Miami 2 years ago used, and recently CLAed. I will ask for receipt.
I was lucky to get a good M9 on Craigslist, and I want to make sure I get a good M10 also. I made a checklist on things I should look for while examining the camera.
1. Check for sensor dust physically and take a f22 picture with my 50mm Zeiss Planar against white background to...Show more →
Steve (1bwanna1) is right that you can use that feature to check for dust on the vanilla M10 as well, but I am not sure what testing for dust will get you. I certainly wouldn't reject a camera for dust on the sensor. It is easy enough to clean it either yourself or professionally. You might ask for a slight discount, but it does not indicate a problem with the camera in any way. I would be more concerned about the operation of the camera. Make sure the rangefinder works and is relatively well calibrated with your lenses (it would cost more to get it recalibrated than it would to clean the sensor). I wouldn't worry about dead pixels either. I think the most serious issue that is possible with Leica cameras is that there isn't difference between the two side of the sensor. Some Leica M cameras build the sensor by putting two halves of the sensor together and rarely you can see a line between the two sides. That would require a much more serious fix.
By the way you can use very wide lenses on a Leica M (Laowa even makes a 9mm not fisheye lens for Leica M), but 28mm is the widest frame lines you will be able to see in the viewfinder. Wider than that and you will have to use the LCD on the back or the optional EVF, or a optical viewfinder in the hot shoe.
Good luck with the purchase,
Meeting with someone to buy an used M10 tomorrow. The person is a well known professor at a major university, so background should be legit. He claims that it was bought from Leica Miami 2 years ago used, and recently CLAed. I will ask for receipt.
I was lucky to get a good M9 on Craigslist, and I want to make sure I get a good M10 also. I made a checklist on things I should look for while examining the camera.
1. Check for sensor dust physically and take a f22 picture with my 50mm Zeiss Planar against white background to...Show more →
Steve (1bwanna1) is right that you can use that feature to check for dust on the vanilla M10 as well, but I am not sure what testing for dust will get you. I certainly wouldn't reject a camera for dust on the sensor. It is easy enough to clean it either yourself or professionally. You might ask for a slight discount, but it does not indicate a problem with the camera in any way. I would be more concerned about the operation of the camera. Make sure the rangefinder works and is relatively well calibrated with your lenses (it would cost more to get it recalibrated than it would to clean the sensor). I wouldn't worry about dead pixels either. I think the most serious issue that is possible with Leica cameras is that there isn't difference between the two side of the sensor. Some Leica M cameras build the sensor by putting two halves of the sensor together and rarely you can see a line between the two sides. That would require a much more serious fix.
By the way you can use very wide lenses on a Leica M (Laowa even makes a 9mm not fisheye lens for Leica M), but 28mm is the widest frame lines you will be able to see in the viewfinder. Wider than that and you will have to use the LCD on the back or the optional EVF, or a optical viewfinder in the hot shoe.
Good luck with the purchase,
Aug 14, 2022 at 04:59 AM
p.1 #4Checklist When Buying an Used M10
Check bifurcation level if the camera is M10R/M10m
I bought mine at a famous shop in Uk and over three cameras, the problem was exponential. The one I did buy was the less afflicted, the worst had a serious issue just after the editing of the contrast curve in LR.
I bought mine at a famous shop in Uk and over three cameras, the problem was exponential. The one I did buy was the less afflicted, the worst had a serious issue just after the editing of the contrast curve in LR.
Aug 14, 2022 at 05:40 AM
p.1 #5Checklist When Buying an Used M10
I just did some more research. There seems to be no reliable way getting shutter count on M10s. Many new M10 have file number starting in 9000s. Also exif data isn't accurate either. M9 service manual is also gone.
Aug 14, 2022 at 08:48 AM
p.1 #6Checklist When Buying an Used M10
Ulysseita wrote:
Check bifurcation level if the camera is M10R/M10m
I bought mine at a famous shop in Uk and over three cameras, the problem was exponential. The one I did buy was the less afflicted, the worst had a serious issue just after the editing of the contrast curve in LR.
Crazy. I have been research M10R for a while. This is the first I have heard of it.
Check bifurcation level if the camera is M10R/M10m
I bought mine at a famous shop in Uk and over three cameras, the problem was exponential. The one I did buy was the less afflicted, the worst had a serious issue just after the editing of the contrast curve in LR.
Crazy. I have been research M10R for a while. This is the first I have heard of it.
Aug 14, 2022 at 10:32 AM
p.1 #7Checklist When Buying an Used M10
It's rare. But to be safe check for it.
Sounds like you are going fo the M 10. For that M 10 it is not an issue.
Yes you can check sensor dust the M 10.
Sounds like you are going fo the M 10. For that M 10 it is not an issue.
Yes you can check sensor dust the M 10.
Aug 14, 2022 at 10:42 AM
p.1 #8Checklist When Buying an Used M10
gordec wrote:
I just did some more research. There seems to be no reliable way getting shutter count on M10s. Many new M10 have file number starting in 9000s. Also exif data isn't accurate either. M9 service manual is also gone.
Leica Sync is a free app that provides the number of actuations for M10 bodies:
https://transienteye.com/software
It's also a great way to transfer and browse your camera files wirelessly.
I just did some more research. There seems to be no reliable way getting shutter count on M10s. Many new M10 have file number starting in 9000s. Also exif data isn't accurate either. M9 service manual is also gone.
Leica Sync is a free app that provides the number of actuations for M10 bodies:
https://transienteye.com/software
It's also a great way to transfer and browse your camera files wirelessly.
Aug 14, 2022 at 10:48 AM
p.1 #9Checklist When Buying an Used M10
For my usage, most important things to check:
1) Check if the rangefinder is well calibrated by testing it with a lens known to be calibrated. Test the vertical and horizontal alignment.
2) Check if the camera is fully functional but taking some pictures with it.
3) Test the hot-shoe electronics. See if it works with the Visoflex.
4) Turn off the camera and see if it fully turns off. (instead of just going in standby). I've seen cameras that do not shutdown completely.
5) Check for sensor bifurcation.
6) Check sensor for scratches. Dust is fine.
1) Check if the rangefinder is well calibrated by testing it with a lens known to be calibrated. Test the vertical and horizontal alignment.
2) Check if the camera is fully functional but taking some pictures with it.
3) Test the hot-shoe electronics. See if it works with the Visoflex.
4) Turn off the camera and see if it fully turns off. (instead of just going in standby). I've seen cameras that do not shutdown completely.
5) Check for sensor bifurcation.
6) Check sensor for scratches. Dust is fine.
Aug 14, 2022 at 10:54 AM
p.1 #10Checklist When Buying an Used M10
Fred Miranda wrote:
Leica Sync is a free app that provides the number of actuations for M10 bodies:
https://transienteye.com/software
It's also a great way to transfer and browse your camera files wirelessly.
I don’t have Mac OS. It’s good to know.
gordec wrote
I just did some more research. There seems to be no reliable way getting shutter count on M10s. Many new M10 have file number starting in 9000s. Also exif data isn't accurate either. M9 service manual is also gone.https://transienteye.com/software
It's also a great way to transfer and browse your camera files wirelessly.
I don’t have Mac OS. It’s good to know.
Aug 14, 2022 at 10:55 AM
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p.1 #11Checklist When Buying an Used M10
Fred Miranda wrote:
Leica Sync is a free app that provides the number of actuations for M10 bodies:
https://transienteye.com/software
It's also a great way to transfer and browse your camera files wirelessly.
wow, nice tips Fred!
I've just found my 2nd hand M10r is younger than expected!
gordec wrote
I just did some more research. There seems to be no reliable way getting shutter count on M10s. Many new M10 have file number starting in 9000s. Also exif data isn't accurate either. M9 service manual is also gone.https://transienteye.com/software
It's also a great way to transfer and browse your camera files wirelessly.
wow, nice tips Fred!
I've just found my 2nd hand M10r is younger than expected!
Aug 14, 2022 at 11:16 AM
p.1 #12Checklist When Buying an Used M10
Fred Miranda wrote:
For my usage, most important things to check:
1) Check if the rangefinder is well calibrated by testing it with a lens known to be calibrated. Test the vertical and horizontal alignment.
2) Check if the camera is fully functional but taking some pictures with it.
3) Test the hot-shoe electronics. See if it works with the Visoflex.
4) Turn off the camera and see if it fully turns off. (instead of just going in standby). I've seen cameras that do not shutdown completely.
5) Check for sensor bifurcation.
6) Check sensor for scratches. Dust is fine.
How do you check bifurcation? It's only a problem with M10R and M10M right?
For my usage, most important things to check:
1) Check if the rangefinder is well calibrated by testing it with a lens known to be calibrated. Test the vertical and horizontal alignment.
2) Check if the camera is fully functional but taking some pictures with it.
3) Test the hot-shoe electronics. See if it works with the Visoflex.
4) Turn off the camera and see if it fully turns off. (instead of just going in standby). I've seen cameras that do not shutdown completely.
5) Check for sensor bifurcation.
6) Check sensor for scratches. Dust is fine.
How do you check bifurcation? It's only a problem with M10R and M10M right?
Aug 14, 2022 at 11:35 AM
p.1 #14Checklist When Buying an Used M10
I am meeting with the seller right now. I don't have a Mac os. I can post a link here to the dng file if anybody has time to check the shutter count for me.
DNG
DNG
Aug 14, 2022 at 12:28 PM
p.1 #15Checklist When Buying an Used M10
gordec wrote:
How do you check bifurcation?
Place a featureless object (blue sky) at the image center and expose. Then, in your favorite editing program, adjust contrast/curves and look for a difference in brightness between the left half and the right half of the image. If the sensor has a bifurcation problem, you will see a vertical line at the image center. In my limited experience it is most obvious at the top of the image.
Even if you see a faint difference between left/right image brightness, ask yourself if the amount of editing required to make it visible is normal for your typical workflow. In the three M10M I considered buying, all of them showed the bifurcation, but it was very faint and required unusual processing to make it apparent. It is most obvious in darker images, think featureless blue sky shot with a red filter at base ISO.
How do you check bifurcation?
Place a featureless object (blue sky) at the image center and expose. Then, in your favorite editing program, adjust contrast/curves and look for a difference in brightness between the left half and the right half of the image. If the sensor has a bifurcation problem, you will see a vertical line at the image center. In my limited experience it is most obvious at the top of the image.
Even if you see a faint difference between left/right image brightness, ask yourself if the amount of editing required to make it visible is normal for your typical workflow. In the three M10M I considered buying, all of them showed the bifurcation, but it was very faint and required unusual processing to make it apparent. It is most obvious in darker images, think featureless blue sky shot with a red filter at base ISO.
Aug 14, 2022 at 01:55 PM
p.1 #16Checklist When Buying an Used M10
Again not an issue wit hthe M 10 and I have no issues with my M 10 M.
Aug 14, 2022 at 02:01 PM
p.1 #17Checklist When Buying an Used M10
gordec wrote:
I am meeting with the seller right now. I don't have a Mac os. I can post a link here to the dng file if anybody has time to check the shutter count for me.
DNG
I checked that DNG. There is some dust on the sensor but I didn't detect any bifurcation issue. It seems to be a M10 body.
To be able to see the number of actuations, the camera needs to be connected to a mac running the Leica Sync app.
However, the number of the DNG file you provided is 9858. This does not give an accurate reading but perhaps a ballpark.
I am meeting with the seller right now. I don't have a Mac os. I can post a link here to the dng file if anybody has time to check the shutter count for me.
DNG
I checked that DNG. There is some dust on the sensor but I didn't detect any bifurcation issue. It seems to be a M10 body.
To be able to see the number of actuations, the camera needs to be connected to a mac running the Leica Sync app.
However, the number of the DNG file you provided is 9858. This does not give an accurate reading but perhaps a ballpark.
Aug 14, 2022 at 02:17 PM
p.1 #18Checklist When Buying an Used M10
Fred Miranda wrote:
DNGI checked that DNG. There is some dust on the sensor but I didn't detect any bifurcation issue. It seems to be a M10 body.
To be able to see the number of actuations, the camera needs to be connected to a mac running the Leica Sync app.
However, the number of the DNG file you provided is 9858. This does not give an accurate reading but perhaps a ballpark.
Yeah I took a few more with his 90mm. The sensor was clean. I think it was my lens. I ended up buying it. The chrome M10 is more gorgeous in person.
I think most M10s start at L1009001. https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/272773-leica-m10-image-number-start/ so this M10 probably has 800s. It was in mint condition looks like 800 shutter count body.
gordec wrote
I am meeting with the seller right now. I don't have a Mac os. I can post a link here to the dng file if anybody has time to check the shutter count for me.DNG
To be able to see the number of actuations, the camera needs to be connected to a mac running the Leica Sync app.
However, the number of the DNG file you provided is 9858. This does not give an accurate reading but perhaps a ballpark.
Yeah I took a few more with his 90mm. The sensor was clean. I think it was my lens. I ended up buying it. The chrome M10 is more gorgeous in person.
I think most M10s start at L1009001. https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/272773-leica-m10-image-number-start/ so this M10 probably has 800s. It was in mint condition looks like 800 shutter count body.
Aug 14, 2022 at 02:24 PM
p.1 #19Checklist When Buying an Used M10
gordec wrote:
DNGI checked that DNG. There is some dust on the sensor but I didn't detect any bifurcation issue. It seems to be a M10 body.
To be able to see the number of actuations, the camera needs to be connected to a mac running the Leica Sync app.
However, the number of the DNG file you provided is 9858. This does not give an accurate reading but perhaps a ballpark.Yeah I took a few more with his 90mm. The sensor was clean. I think it was my lens. I ended up buying it. The chrome M10 is more gorgeous in person.
I think most M10s start at L1009001. https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/272773-leica-m10-image-number-start/ so this M10 probably has 800s. It was in mint condition looks like 800 shutter count body.
Congrats on your new M10! I'm a fan of the silver as well.
Fred Miranda wrote
gordec wrote
I am meeting with the seller right now. I don't have a Mac os. I can post a link here to the dng file if anybody has time to check the shutter count for me.DNG
To be able to see the number of actuations, the camera needs to be connected to a mac running the Leica Sync app.
However, the number of the DNG file you provided is 9858. This does not give an accurate reading but perhaps a ballpark.
I think most M10s start at L1009001. https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/272773-leica-m10-image-number-start/ so this M10 probably has 800s. It was in mint condition looks like 800 shutter count body.
Congrats on your new M10! I'm a fan of the silver as well.
Aug 14, 2022 at 02:46 PM
p.1 #20Checklist When Buying an Used M10
Congratulations on the new camera. May it give you many years of good service and enjoyment.
Aug 14, 2022 at 03:10 PM