Archive 2021 · Sony A1 and Zeiss Loxia Malfunctions
p.8 #1Sony A1 and Zeiss Loxia Malfunctions
I've used the 21, 35, 50 on my A1. The 35 and 50 have zero issues, the 21 showed the annoying magnification error. That lens was also a decentered lemon though.
May 29, 2023 at 03:10 AM
p.8 #2Sony A1 and Zeiss Loxia Malfunctions
I have a new Loxia 25 and it has the problem with my a7R V on version 2.0 camera firmware. So it's not looking good at this point for either Sony or Zeiss fixing this.
tsdevine wrote:
Probably going to jinx myself here, but I put my CV 15 and Loxia 21 through the paces a little after upgrading to the a7R V version 2.0 firmware that was released this week. So far I have not seen the problem....I'll report back if it happens again.
tsdevine wrote
I've seen the issue with the CV 15 and Loxia 21, but not to the extent I saw it on a used Loxia 25 (which I returned). I use my CV 35 and 50 a lot, and I've never had it happen. I use my CV 65 and 110 much less, but haven't seen it.My newest CVs are the 35 & 50 for what it's worth.
Funy thing is when I first got the a7R V, I quickly tried all these lenses and didn't notice it. It wasn't until I picked up the Loxia 25 that I really really tested the lenses again. (Although I use the CV 35 & 50 a lot....so in essence I was constantly testing them.)
Wouldn't even consider going back to my a7R III to resolve this. My Sigma 14-24 has replaced the CV 15 and Loxia 21 almost exclusively. My 35 and 50 don't seem to exhibit the issue at this point. And I use the CV 65 and 110 sparingly.
Definitely would be nice for Sony, Zeiss and Cosina to work together to resolve this. Or just Sony if they can resolve it solely on the camera side.
smpetty wrote
Gunzorro wrote
Note to self: Pass on the a7R5. No real resolution or dynamic range improvements over a7R4 for my needs.
Sony will need to issue a fix -- it is obviously a bug introduced in this new a7R5 model. No issues with Loxia or CV E lenses previously on earlier models.
Very happy to have regained what seems to be dependable full function with my Loxias. The A7RV is a gem...
Jun 16, 2023 at 02:40 PM
p.8 #3Sony A1 and Zeiss Loxia Malfunctions
tsdevine wrote:
I have a new Loxia 25 and it has the problem with my a7R V on version 2.0 camera firmware. So it's not looking good at this point for either Sony or Zeiss fixing this.
My Loxia 25 also has the issue (on the A1), but my Loxia 35 and 50 are fine.
Zeiss won't ever fix this, I corresponded with them on this issue 1,5 yrs ago, and it was a useless effort.
I have a new Loxia 25 and it has the problem with my a7R V on version 2.0 camera firmware. So it's not looking good at this point for either Sony or Zeiss fixing this.
My Loxia 25 also has the issue (on the A1), but my Loxia 35 and 50 are fine.
Zeiss won't ever fix this, I corresponded with them on this issue 1,5 yrs ago, and it was a useless effort.
Jun 16, 2023 at 04:09 PM
p.8 #4Sony A1 and Zeiss Loxia Malfunctions
tsdevine wrote:
I have a new Loxia 25 and it has the problem with my a7R V on version 2.0 camera firmware. So it's not looking good at this point for either Sony or Zeiss fixing this.
I have not done extensive testing on my new A7RV (FW 2.00) but my copies of Loxia 21 and 35 seem to work fine.
I have a new Loxia 25 and it has the problem with my a7R V on version 2.0 camera firmware. So it's not looking good at this point for either Sony or Zeiss fixing this.
I have not done extensive testing on my new A7RV (FW 2.00) but my copies of Loxia 21 and 35 seem to work fine.
Jun 16, 2023 at 04:22 PM
p.8 #5Sony A1 and Zeiss Loxia Malfunctions
My Loxia 21 seems mostly okay (happens infrequently), but I bought it right when it was released. The Loxia 25 is new, which granted could have still been made a while back. I also have the issue with my Loxia 85.
lensfan wrote:
I have not done extensive testing on my new A7RV (FW 2.00) but my copies of Loxia 21 and 35 seem to work fine.
lensfan wrote:
tsdevine wrote
I have a new Loxia 25 and it has the problem with my a7R V on version 2.0 camera firmware. So it's not looking good at this point for either Sony or Zeiss fixing this.Jun 16, 2023 at 04:37 PM
p.8 #6Sony A1 and Zeiss Loxia Malfunctions
So I messaged Zeiss on Facebook. They said that Zeiss was aware of the issue, and if in Europe, to use the repair form and send in the lens. I let them know I'm in the US and am waiting for their response.
Jul 18, 2023 at 05:12 AM
p.8 #7Sony A1 and Zeiss Loxia Malfunctions
So Zeiss on Facebook was very helpful with saying that they are aware of the problem, and the lens can be sent back to Zeiss to have it addressed, if I am in Europe. They asked me to let them know if I wasn't in Europe, which I did. After I let them know that, they seem to have gone dark. I've pinged them 3 or 4 times over the past month and they won't respond. They were very responsive until I said I wasn't in Europe.
Aug 22, 2023 at 02:41 PM
p.8 #8Sony A1 and Zeiss Loxia Malfunctions
I've tried my CV65 yesterday and it again showed the issue at f4, but I noticed if I twitch the aperture ring a bit I can get it in a position that seems to work reliably...
Aug 23, 2023 at 03:45 AM
p.8 #9Sony A1 and Zeiss Loxia Malfunctions
tsdevine wrote:
So Zeiss on Facebook was very helpful with saying that they are aware of the problem, and the lens can be sent back to Zeiss to have it addressed, if I am in Europe. They asked me to let them know if I wasn't in Europe, which I did. After I let them know that, they seem to have gone dark. I've pinged them 3 or 4 times over the past month and they won't respond. They were very responsive until I said I wasn't in Europe.
I used this Zeiss USA Consumer Products service back in 2020 to replace a faulty Zeiss lens:
ZEISS Consumer Products
COP Repair Service
1050 Worldwide Blvd
Hebron, KY 41048
USA
Phone: (800) 441-3005
xxxxx
Web: www.zeiss.com/us
Online Repair Form :
https://kyuri.my.salesforce-sites.com/CZPRepair?page=1®ion=Americas&area=consumer&lang=EN
So Zeiss on Facebook was very helpful with saying that they are aware of the problem, and the lens can be sent back to Zeiss to have it addressed, if I am in Europe. They asked me to let them know if I wasn't in Europe, which I did. After I let them know that, they seem to have gone dark. I've pinged them 3 or 4 times over the past month and they won't respond. They were very responsive until I said I wasn't in Europe.
I used this Zeiss USA Consumer Products service back in 2020 to replace a faulty Zeiss lens:
ZEISS Consumer Products
COP Repair Service
1050 Worldwide Blvd
Hebron, KY 41048
USA
Phone: (800) 441-3005
xxxxx
Web: www.zeiss.com/us
Online Repair Form :
https://kyuri.my.salesforce-sites.com/CZPRepair?page=1®ion=Americas&area=consumer&lang=EN
Aug 23, 2023 at 04:30 AM
p.8 #10Sony A1 and Zeiss Loxia Malfunctions
I guess that's the next step, but I'd like to talk to someone before doing anything. The concern I have is that ALL my Loxia lenses exhibit this. And Multiple copies of the Loxia 25 I have tried have exhibited this. I have excellent copies of the Loxia 21 (outside of warranty), 25 and 85. They are not faulty per se, I think pretty much all Loxia lenses are affected.
So I will have to try to call and see if there is a fix, and what is involved with the fix.
LBJ2 wrote:
tsdevine wrote
So Zeiss on Facebook was very helpful with saying that they are aware of the problem, and the lens can be sent back to Zeiss to have it addressed, if I am in Europe. They asked me to let them know if I wasn't in Europe, which I did. After I let them know that, they seem to have gone dark. I've pinged them 3 or 4 times over the past month and they won't respond. They were very responsive until I said I wasn't in Europe.ZEISS Consumer Products
COP Repair Service
1050 Worldwide Blvd
Hebron, KY 41048
USA
Phone: (800) 441-3005
xxxxx
Web: www.zeiss.com/us
Online Repair Form :
https://kyuri.my.salesforce-sites.com/CZPRepair?page=1®ion=Americas&area=consumer&lang=EN
Aug 23, 2023 at 04:40 AM
p.8 #11Sony A1 and Zeiss Loxia Malfunctions
tsdevine wrote:
I guess that's the next step, but I'd like to talk to someone before doing anything. The concern I have is that ALL my Loxia lenses exhibit this. And Multiple copies of the Loxia 25 I have tried have exhibited this. I have excellent copies of the Loxia 21 (outside of warranty), 25 and 85. They are not faulty per se, I think pretty much all Loxia lenses are affected.
So I will have to try to call and see if there is a fix, and what is involved with the fix.
I used this Zeiss USA Consumer Products service back in 2020 to replace a faulty Zeiss lens:
ZEISS Consumer Products
COP Repair Service
1050 Worldwide Blvd
Hebron, KY 41048
USA
Phone: (800) 441-3005
xxxxx
Web: www.zeiss.com/us
Online Repair Form :
https://kyuri.my.salesforce-sites.com/CZPRepair?page=1®ion=Americas&area=consumer&lang=EN
Good luck. I hope this helps. I received very friendly, responsive communications with this center through email. Not sure if I ever got through to a tech on the phone or not--been some time. Eitherway, you might include a copy of your Facebook communications with Zeiss Europe too.
I guess that's the next step, but I'd like to talk to someone before doing anything. The concern I have is that ALL my Loxia lenses exhibit this. And Multiple copies of the Loxia 25 I have tried have exhibited this. I have excellent copies of the Loxia 21 (outside of warranty), 25 and 85. They are not faulty per se, I think pretty much all Loxia lenses are affected.
So I will have to try to call and see if there is a fix, and what is involved with the fix.
LBJ2 wrote
tsdevine wrote
So Zeiss on Facebook was very helpful with saying that they are aware of the problem, and the lens can be sent back to Zeiss to have it addressed, if I am in Europe. They asked me to let them know if I wasn't in Europe, which I did. After I let them know that, they seem to have gone dark. I've pinged them 3 or 4 times over the past month and they won't respond. They were very responsive until I said I wasn't in Europe.ZEISS Consumer Products
COP Repair Service
1050 Worldwide Blvd
Hebron, KY 41048
USA
Phone: (800) 441-3005
xxxxx
Web: www.zeiss.com/us
Online Repair Form :
https://kyuri.my.salesforce-sites.com/CZPRepair?page=1®ion=Americas&area=consumer&lang=EN
Good luck. I hope this helps. I received very friendly, responsive communications with this center through email. Not sure if I ever got through to a tech on the phone or not--been some time. Eitherway, you might include a copy of your Facebook communications with Zeiss Europe too.
Aug 23, 2023 at 05:53 AM
p.8 #12Sony A1 and Zeiss Loxia Malfunctions
This certainly seems like a mess. Main responsibility seems to lie with Sony for changing something in the interface with these CV and Loxia lenses (any other "compatible" MF lenses that are failing with a7RV?).
I probably have already said that besides the a7R4, I also still use two a7R2's. All these bodies work flawlessly with these lenses, so I have a cushion until they break down at some point. My thought is to either get another used a7R4, or maybe even just an a7R3 for the better battery and a few other features more like the a7R4 model. I would hate to lose the focus zoom feature and all these bodies provide me enough megapixels for the foreseeable future.
Glad to hear the Batis models are not malfunctioning! (Please don't tell me I'm wrong! )
I probably have already said that besides the a7R4, I also still use two a7R2's. All these bodies work flawlessly with these lenses, so I have a cushion until they break down at some point. My thought is to either get another used a7R4, or maybe even just an a7R3 for the better battery and a few other features more like the a7R4 model. I would hate to lose the focus zoom feature and all these bodies provide me enough megapixels for the foreseeable future.
Glad to hear the Batis models are not malfunctioning!
(Please don't tell me I'm wrong! )Aug 23, 2023 at 07:21 AM
p.8 #13Sony A1 and Zeiss Loxia Malfunctions
Thanks, I did actually get a response via FB, apologizing that my issue had been accidentally close. They asked me to contact [email protected], which seems a little odd, but I can try to work this in parallel.
LBJ2 wrote:
tsdevine wrote
I guess that's the next step, but I'd like to talk to someone before doing anything. The concern I have is that ALL my Loxia lenses exhibit this. And Multiple copies of the Loxia 25 I have tried have exhibited this. I have excellent copies of the Loxia 21 (outside of warranty), 25 and 85. They are not faulty per se, I think pretty much all Loxia lenses are affected.So I will have to try to call and see if there is a fix, and what is involved with the fix.
LBJ2 wrote
tsdevine wrote
So Zeiss on Facebook was very helpful with saying that they are aware of the problem, and the lens can be sent back to Zeiss to have it addressed, if I am in Europe. They asked me to let them know if I wasn't in Europe, which I did. After I let them know that, they seem to have gone dark. I've pinged them 3 or 4 times over the past month and they won't respond. They were very responsive until I said I wasn't in Europe.ZEISS Consumer Products
COP Repair Service
1050 Worldwide Blvd
Hebron, KY 41048
USA
Phone: (800) 441-3005
xxxxx
Web: www.zeiss.com/us
Online Repair Form :
https://kyuri.my.salesforce-sites.com/CZPRepair?page=1®ion=Americas&area=consumer&lang=EN
Aug 23, 2023 at 07:49 AM
p.8 #14Sony A1 and Zeiss Loxia Malfunctions
I know I've said this in the past, and many will disagree with me. But Zeiss sells these lenses with no guidance that there are any compatibility issues with certain Sony cameras. It seems as though now all new models having compatibility issues with Zeiss Loxia lenses (and CV, although I haven't really seen any issues with my most used CV lenses). To me, Zeiss should be working with Sony, assuming that's where the fix needs to occur, on behalf of their customers. And given that in Europe, it seems as Zeiss has a fix, it doesn't really make sense to me to pursue this with Sony. It makes me think that Zeiss has a fix.
The lenses aren't completely unusable. You just have to have patience and fiddle with them.....pick another aperture to use magnified focus. Sometimes turning the camera off and on will let it work briefly. Sometimes switching to another mode and back will allow it to work. It's just frustrating from a usability perspective.
I don't want to send my lenses in and get a replacement. I want my lenses fixed. If it comes down to sending in the lens and they send me a "fixed" copy, I probably won't send mine in. I have nearly perfect copies and for some of them, it took a lot of effort to get copies of that quality.
In my mind it's most likely fixable via firmware, and it's frustrating if that's the case and there is no self service capability to update firmware on the lenses. That is an option with Batis, but many suspect that the two lines are manufactured by different companies (often Cosina is thought to manufacture Loxia, and Tamron for Batis). That sort of makes sense as Voigtlander also doesn't appear to have a mechanism to allow customers to update firmware, but Tamron does.
I just think it's tough to go to Sony and say that Loxia lenses don't work right on their newer cameras. Historically OEMs haven't been too interested in fixing issues with 3rd party lenses. Zeiss has come out and said they are committed to supporting their lenses, they are not leaving the photography market, etc. And in my mind, if the fix truly needs to be made on the Sony side, Zeiss could apply some leverage with Sony to get it done. But again, it's seeming as though Zeiss has a fix.
Gunzorro wrote:
This certainly seems like a mess. Main responsibility seems to lie with Sony for changing something in the interface with these CV and Loxia lenses (any other "compatible" MF lenses that are failing with a7RV?).
I probably have already said that besides the a7R4, I also still use two a7R2's. All these bodies work flawlessly with these lenses, so I have a cushion until they break down at some point. My thought is to either get another used a7R4, or maybe even just an a7R3 for the better battery and a few other features more like the a7R4 model. I...Show more →
The lenses aren't completely unusable. You just have to have patience and fiddle with them.....pick another aperture to use magnified focus. Sometimes turning the camera off and on will let it work briefly. Sometimes switching to another mode and back will allow it to work. It's just frustrating from a usability perspective.
I don't want to send my lenses in and get a replacement. I want my lenses fixed. If it comes down to sending in the lens and they send me a "fixed" copy, I probably won't send mine in. I have nearly perfect copies and for some of them, it took a lot of effort to get copies of that quality.
In my mind it's most likely fixable via firmware, and it's frustrating if that's the case and there is no self service capability to update firmware on the lenses. That is an option with Batis, but many suspect that the two lines are manufactured by different companies (often Cosina is thought to manufacture Loxia, and Tamron for Batis). That sort of makes sense as Voigtlander also doesn't appear to have a mechanism to allow customers to update firmware, but Tamron does.
I just think it's tough to go to Sony and say that Loxia lenses don't work right on their newer cameras. Historically OEMs haven't been too interested in fixing issues with 3rd party lenses. Zeiss has come out and said they are committed to supporting their lenses, they are not leaving the photography market, etc. And in my mind, if the fix truly needs to be made on the Sony side, Zeiss could apply some leverage with Sony to get it done. But again, it's seeming as though Zeiss has a fix.
Gunzorro wrote:
This certainly seems like a mess. Main responsibility seems to lie with Sony for changing something in the interface with these CV and Loxia lenses (any other "compatible" MF lenses that are failing with a7RV?).
I probably have already said that besides the a7R4, I also still use two a7R2's. All these bodies work flawlessly with these lenses, so I have a cushion until they break down at some point. My thought is to either get another used a7R4, or maybe even just an a7R3 for the better battery and a few other features more like the a7R4 model. I...Show more →
Aug 23, 2023 at 08:00 AM
p.8 #15Sony A1 and Zeiss Loxia Malfunctions
tsdevine wrote:
Thanks, I did actually get a response via FB, apologizing that my issue had been accidentally close. They asked me to contact xxxxx, which seems a little odd, but I can try to work this in parallel.
So I will have to try to call and see if there is a fix, and what is involved with the fix.
I used this Zeiss USA Consumer Products service back in 2020 to replace a faulty Zeiss lens:
ZEISS Consumer Products
COP Repair Service
1050 Worldwide Blvd
Hebron, KY 41048
USA
Phone: (800) 441-3005
xxxxx
Web: www.zeiss.com/us
Online Repair Form :
https://kyuri.my.salesforce-sites.com/CZPRepair?page=1®ion=Americas&area=consumer&lang=ENGood luck. I hope this helps. I received very friendly, responsive communications with this center through email. Not sure if I ever got through to a tech on the phone or not--been some time. Eitherway, you might include a copy of your Facebook communications with Zeiss Europe too.
Opps I thought I had posted an email address with the info above--but it keeps converting as xxxxxx after I post the comment. The email address that came from Zeiss and then with which I communicated is similar:
repair.sportsoptics @ zeiss.com
Thanks, I did actually get a response via FB, apologizing that my issue had been accidentally close. They asked me to contact xxxxx, which seems a little odd, but I can try to work this in parallel.
LBJ2 wrote
tsdevine wrote
I guess that's the next step, but I'd like to talk to someone before doing anything. The concern I have is that ALL my Loxia lenses exhibit this. And Multiple copies of the Loxia 25 I have tried have exhibited this. I have excellent copies of the Loxia 21 (outside of warranty), 25 and 85. They are not faulty per se, I think pretty much all Loxia lenses are affected.So I will have to try to call and see if there is a fix, and what is involved with the fix.
LBJ2 wrote
tsdevine wrote
So Zeiss on Facebook was very helpful with saying that they are aware of the problem, and the lens can be sent back to Zeiss to have it addressed, if I am in Europe. They asked me to let them know if I wasn't in Europe, which I did. After I let them know that, they seem to have gone dark. I've pinged them 3 or 4 times over the past month and they won't respond. They were very responsive until I said I wasn't in Europe.ZEISS Consumer Products
COP Repair Service
1050 Worldwide Blvd
Hebron, KY 41048
USA
Phone: (800) 441-3005
xxxxx
Web: www.zeiss.com/us
Online Repair Form :
https://kyuri.my.salesforce-sites.com/CZPRepair?page=1®ion=Americas&area=consumer&lang=EN
Opps I thought I had posted an email address with the info above--but it keeps converting as xxxxxx after I post the comment. The email address that came from Zeiss and then with which I communicated is similar:
repair.sportsoptics @ zeiss.com
Aug 23, 2023 at 09:25 AM
p.8 #16Sony A1 and Zeiss Loxia Malfunctions
tsdevine wrote:
I know I've said this in the past, and many will disagree with me. But Zeiss sells these lenses with no guidance that there are any compatibility issues with certain Sony cameras. It seems as though now all new models having compatibility issues with Zeiss Loxia lenses (and CV, although I haven't really seen any issues with my most used CV lenses). To me, Zeiss should be working with Sony, assuming that's where the fix needs to occur, on behalf of their customers. And given that in Europe, it seems as Zeiss has a fix, it doesn't really make sense...Show more →
I probably have already said that besides the a7R4, I also still use two a7R2's. All these bodies work flawlessly with these lenses, so I have a cushion until they break down at some point. My thought is to either get another used a7R4, or maybe even just an a7R3 for the better battery and a few other features more like the a7R4 model. I would hate to lose the focus zoom feature and all these bodies provide me enough megapixels for the foreseeable future.
Glad to hear the Batis models are not malfunctioning! (Please don't tell me I'm wrong! )
I have thought about this and tested my own Loxia's with the A1: the L25 shows the behavior, but not so much as to make it unusable: turning the aperture ring left/right, left/right a few times usually settles it for as long as I stay with the same aperture.
The Loxia 35 and 50 showed none of this issue. So I conclude that the fault does not origin from the A1, all lenses should show this behavior if this were the case. The fact that two of three Loxia lenses operate flawlessly rules the A1 out as the source.
My best guess, is that the newer processors that were introduced with the A7RIV and A1 are so much faster and more responsive, that they pick up a disturbance in the electronic signal sent from the Loxia lenses to the camera, where the slower processors prior to the A7RIV simply missed it. The lens starts operating frantically, bringing the camera into magnified view, and out and in and out while I turn the zoom ring. This should point to a stuttering electronic signal: off/on/off/on etc.
Therefore I think it is a hickup originating in the mechanical/electronic coupling of the aperture ring. My guess is that Zeiss replaces this part in service.
I am not sure what Sony could do: artificially lower the responsiveness of the camera so it does not enter stutter mode?
Disclaimer: I am technically trained and have a technical education, but of course there is a lot of speculation here, and Sony or Zeiss are both in durable clamp mode on this issue, which doesn't make it any easier. I wonder why they did not communicate to you what their servicing was exactly.
I know I've said this in the past, and many will disagree with me. But Zeiss sells these lenses with no guidance that there are any compatibility issues with certain Sony cameras. It seems as though now all new models having compatibility issues with Zeiss Loxia lenses (and CV, although I haven't really seen any issues with my most used CV lenses). To me, Zeiss should be working with Sony, assuming that's where the fix needs to occur, on behalf of their customers. And given that in Europe, it seems as Zeiss has a fix, it doesn't really make sense...Show more →
Gunzorro wrote
This certainly seems like a mess. Main responsibility seems to lie with Sony for changing something in the interface with these CV and Loxia lenses (any other "compatible" MF lenses that are failing with a7RV?).I probably have already said that besides the a7R4, I also still use two a7R2's. All these bodies work flawlessly with these lenses, so I have a cushion until they break down at some point. My thought is to either get another used a7R4, or maybe even just an a7R3 for the better battery and a few other features more like the a7R4 model. I would hate to lose the focus zoom feature and all these bodies provide me enough megapixels for the foreseeable future.
Glad to hear the Batis models are not malfunctioning!
(Please don't tell me I'm wrong! )I have thought about this and tested my own Loxia's with the A1: the L25 shows the behavior, but not so much as to make it unusable: turning the aperture ring left/right, left/right a few times usually settles it for as long as I stay with the same aperture.
The Loxia 35 and 50 showed none of this issue. So I conclude that the fault does not origin from the A1, all lenses should show this behavior if this were the case. The fact that two of three Loxia lenses operate flawlessly rules the A1 out as the source.
My best guess, is that the newer processors that were introduced with the A7RIV and A1 are so much faster and more responsive, that they pick up a disturbance in the electronic signal sent from the Loxia lenses to the camera, where the slower processors prior to the A7RIV simply missed it. The lens starts operating frantically, bringing the camera into magnified view, and out and in and out while I turn the zoom ring. This should point to a stuttering electronic signal: off/on/off/on etc.
Therefore I think it is a hickup originating in the mechanical/electronic coupling of the aperture ring. My guess is that Zeiss replaces this part in service.
I am not sure what Sony could do: artificially lower the responsiveness of the camera so it does not enter stutter mode?
Disclaimer: I am technically trained and have a technical education, but of course there is a lot of speculation here, and Sony or Zeiss are both in durable clamp mode on this issue, which doesn't make it any easier. I wonder why they did not communicate to you what their servicing was exactly.
Aug 23, 2023 at 09:36 AM
p.8 #17Sony A1 and Zeiss Loxia Malfunctions
I also suspect some signalling issue, but I'm not sure it's purely a physical component. It could be in the "code" that converts the signals to the form needed to communicate back to the camera. If there is some timing issue, I could see scenarios where it seems to work sometimes but not others. Although why some lenses are more affected vs others, not sure that make sense.
I have a very old Loxia 21, which I bought when it was first released, and it seems to exhibit this behavior less. My other Loxia lenses are all new and I'm sure have a much later batch of serial numbers. So to your point, maybe it is a physical component and there are some minor difference in these components.
I don't use auto-magnify, which maybe lessens the frustration. My only problem is getting it into magnified view, and having it stay there long enough that I can actually focus.
So if I have to, I will live with it. But it would be sure nice to have the problem addressed....via Zeiss, via Sony, via their historical (and somewhat persisting) relationship.
ChrisMak wrote:
tsdevine wrote
I know I've said this in the past, and many will disagree with me. But Zeiss sells these lenses with no guidance that there are any compatibility issues with certain Sony cameras. It seems as though now all new models having compatibility issues with Zeiss Loxia lenses (and CV, although I haven't really seen any issues with my most used CV lenses). To me, Zeiss should be working with Sony, assuming that's where the fix needs to occur, on behalf of their customers. And given that in Europe, it seems as Zeiss has a fix, it doesn't really make sense to me to pursue this with Sony. It makes me think that Zeiss has a fix.The lenses aren't completely unusable. You just have to have patience and fiddle with them.....pick another aperture to use magnified focus. Sometimes turning the camera off and on will let it work briefly. Sometimes switching to another mode and back will allow it to work. It's just frustrating from a usability perspective.
I don't want to send my lenses in and get a replacement. I want my lenses fixed. If it comes down to sending in the lens and they send me a "fixed" copy, I probably won't send mine in. I have nearly perfect copies and for some of them, it took a lot of effort to get copies of that quality.
In my mind it's most likely fixable via firmware, and it's frustrating if that's the case and there is no self service capability to update firmware on the lenses. That is an option with Batis, but many suspect that the two lines are manufactured by different companies (often Cosina is thought to manufacture Loxia, and Tamron for Batis). That sort of makes sense as Voigtlander also doesn't appear to have a mechanism to allow customers to update firmware, but Tamron does.
I just think it's tough to go to Sony and say that Loxia lenses don't work right on their newer cameras. Historically OEMs haven't been too interested in fixing issues with 3rd party lenses. Zeiss has come out and said they are committed to supporting their lenses, they are not leaving the photography market, etc. And in my mind, if the fix truly needs to be made on the Sony side, Zeiss could apply some leverage with Sony to get it done. But again, it's seeming as though Zeiss has a fix.
Gunzorro wrote
This certainly seems like a mess. Main responsibility seems to lie with Sony for changing something in the interface with these CV and Loxia lenses (any other "compatible" MF lenses that are failing with a7RV?).I probably have already said that besides the a7R4, I also still use two a7R2's. All these bodies work flawlessly with these lenses, so I have a cushion until they break down at some point. My thought is to either get another used a7R4, or maybe even just an a7R3 for the better battery and a few other features more like the a7R4 model. I would hate to lose the focus zoom feature and all these bodies provide me enough megapixels for the foreseeable future.
Glad to hear the Batis models are not malfunctioning!
(Please don't tell me I'm wrong! )The Loxia 35 and 50 showed none of this issue. So I conclude that the fault does not origin from the A1, all lenses should show this behavior if this were the case. The fact that two of three Loxia lenses operate flawlessly rules the A1 out as the source.
My best guess,...Show more →
Aug 23, 2023 at 09:50 AM
p.8 #18Sony A1 and Zeiss Loxia Malfunctions
tsdevine wrote:
I also suspect some signalling issue, but I'm not sure it's purely a physical component. It could be in the "code" that converts the signals to the form needed to communicate back to the camera. If there is some timing issue, I could see scenarios where it seems to work sometimes but not others. Although why some lenses are more affected vs others, not sure that make sense.
I have a very old Loxia 21, which I bought when it was first released, and it seems to exhibit this behavior less. My other Loxia lenses are all new and I'm sure...Show more →
The lenses aren't completely unusable. You just have to have patience and fiddle with them.....pick another aperture to use magnified focus. Sometimes turning the camera off and on will let it work briefly. Sometimes switching to another mode and back will allow it to work. It's just frustrating from a usability perspective.
I don't want to send my lenses in and get a replacement. I want my lenses fixed. If it comes down to sending in the lens and they send me a "fixed" copy, I probably won't send mine in. I have nearly perfect copies and for some of them, it took a lot of effort to get copies of that quality.
In my mind it's most likely fixable via firmware, and it's frustrating if that's the case and there is no self service capability to update firmware on the lenses. That is an option with Batis, but many suspect that the two lines are manufactured by different companies (often Cosina is thought to manufacture Loxia, and Tamron for Batis). That sort of makes sense as Voigtlander also doesn't appear to have a mechanism to allow customers to update firmware, but Tamron does.
I just think it's tough to go to Sony and say that Loxia lenses don't work right on their newer cameras. Historically OEMs haven't been too interested in fixing issues with 3rd party lenses. Zeiss has come out and said they are committed to supporting their lenses, they are not leaving the photography market, etc. And in my mind, if the fix truly needs to be made on the Sony side, Zeiss could apply some leverage with Sony to get it done. But again, it's seeming as though Zeiss has a fix.
I probably have already said that besides the a7R4, I also still use two a7R2's. All these bodies work flawlessly with these lenses, so I have a cushion until they break down at some point. My thought is to either get another used a7R4, or maybe even just an a7R3 for the better battery and a few other features more like the a7R4 model. I would hate to lose the focus zoom feature and all these bodies provide me enough megapixels for the foreseeable future.
Glad to hear the Batis models are not malfunctioning! (Please don't tell me I'm wrong! )I have thought about this and tested my own Loxia's with the A1: the L25 shows the behavior, but not so much as to make it unusable: turning the aperture ring left/right, left/right a few times usually settles it for as long as I stay with the same aperture.
The Loxia 35 and 50 showed none of this issue. So I conclude that the fault does not origin from the A1, all lenses should show this behavior if this were the case. The fact that two of three Loxia lenses operate flawlessly rules the A1 out as the source.
My best guess, is that the newer processors that were introduced with the A7RIV and A1 are so much faster and more responsive, that they pick up a disturbance in the electronic signal sent from the Loxia lenses to the camera, where the slower processors prior to the A7RIV simply missed it. The lens starts operating frantically, bringing the camera into magnified view, and out and in and out while I turn the zoom ring. This should point to a stuttering electronic signal: off/on/off/on etc.
Therefore I think it is a hickup originating in the mechanical/electronic coupling of the aperture ring. My guess is that Zeiss replaces this part in service.
I am not sure what Sony could do: artificially lower the responsiveness of the camera so it does not enter stutter mode?
Disclaimer: I am technically trained and have a technical education, but of course there is a lot of speculation here, and Sony or Zeiss are both in durable clamp mode on this issue, which doesn't make it any easier. I wonder why they did not communicate to you what their servicing was exactly.
I haven't traversed the majority of this thread yet. Just curious has any one else had a successful Loxia lens repair to correct this issue? Or are you the first to consider sending in one of your lenses for evaluation and repair ?
I also suspect some signalling issue, but I'm not sure it's purely a physical component. It could be in the "code" that converts the signals to the form needed to communicate back to the camera. If there is some timing issue, I could see scenarios where it seems to work sometimes but not others. Although why some lenses are more affected vs others, not sure that make sense.
I have a very old Loxia 21, which I bought when it was first released, and it seems to exhibit this behavior less. My other Loxia lenses are all new and I'm sure...Show more →
ChrisMak wrote
tsdevine wrote
I know I've said this in the past, and many will disagree with me. But Zeiss sells these lenses with no guidance that there are any compatibility issues with certain Sony cameras. It seems as though now all new models having compatibility issues with Zeiss Loxia lenses (and CV, although I haven't really seen any issues with my most used CV lenses). To me, Zeiss should be working with Sony, assuming that's where the fix needs to occur, on behalf of their customers. And given that in Europe, it seems as Zeiss has a fix, it doesn't really make sense to me to pursue this with Sony. It makes me think that Zeiss has a fix.The lenses aren't completely unusable. You just have to have patience and fiddle with them.....pick another aperture to use magnified focus. Sometimes turning the camera off and on will let it work briefly. Sometimes switching to another mode and back will allow it to work. It's just frustrating from a usability perspective.
I don't want to send my lenses in and get a replacement. I want my lenses fixed. If it comes down to sending in the lens and they send me a "fixed" copy, I probably won't send mine in. I have nearly perfect copies and for some of them, it took a lot of effort to get copies of that quality.
In my mind it's most likely fixable via firmware, and it's frustrating if that's the case and there is no self service capability to update firmware on the lenses. That is an option with Batis, but many suspect that the two lines are manufactured by different companies (often Cosina is thought to manufacture Loxia, and Tamron for Batis). That sort of makes sense as Voigtlander also doesn't appear to have a mechanism to allow customers to update firmware, but Tamron does.
I just think it's tough to go to Sony and say that Loxia lenses don't work right on their newer cameras. Historically OEMs haven't been too interested in fixing issues with 3rd party lenses. Zeiss has come out and said they are committed to supporting their lenses, they are not leaving the photography market, etc. And in my mind, if the fix truly needs to be made on the Sony side, Zeiss could apply some leverage with Sony to get it done. But again, it's seeming as though Zeiss has a fix.
Gunzorro wrote
This certainly seems like a mess. Main responsibility seems to lie with Sony for changing something in the interface with these CV and Loxia lenses (any other "compatible" MF lenses that are failing with a7RV?).I probably have already said that besides the a7R4, I also still use two a7R2's. All these bodies work flawlessly with these lenses, so I have a cushion until they break down at some point. My thought is to either get another used a7R4, or maybe even just an a7R3 for the better battery and a few other features more like the a7R4 model. I would hate to lose the focus zoom feature and all these bodies provide me enough megapixels for the foreseeable future.
Glad to hear the Batis models are not malfunctioning!
(Please don't tell me I'm wrong! )The Loxia 35 and 50 showed none of this issue. So I conclude that the fault does not origin from the A1, all lenses should show this behavior if this were the case. The fact that two of three Loxia lenses operate flawlessly rules the A1 out as the source.
My best guess, is that the newer processors that were introduced with the A7RIV and A1 are so much faster and more responsive, that they pick up a disturbance in the electronic signal sent from the Loxia lenses to the camera, where the slower processors prior to the A7RIV simply missed it. The lens starts operating frantically, bringing the camera into magnified view, and out and in and out while I turn the zoom ring. This should point to a stuttering electronic signal: off/on/off/on etc.
Therefore I think it is a hickup originating in the mechanical/electronic coupling of the aperture ring. My guess is that Zeiss replaces this part in service.
I am not sure what Sony could do: artificially lower the responsiveness of the camera so it does not enter stutter mode?
Disclaimer: I am technically trained and have a technical education, but of course there is a lot of speculation here, and Sony or Zeiss are both in durable clamp mode on this issue, which doesn't make it any easier. I wonder why they did not communicate to you what their servicing was exactly.
I haven't traversed the majority of this thread yet. Just curious has any one else had a successful Loxia lens repair to correct this issue? Or are you the first to consider sending in one of your lenses for evaluation and repair ?
Aug 23, 2023 at 10:20 AM
p.8 #19Sony A1 and Zeiss Loxia Malfunctions
Wish I could help but never had the Loxia glass with my A1. Hope you all figure it out
Aug 23, 2023 at 10:24 AM
p.8 #20Sony A1 and Zeiss Loxia Malfunctions
I have an a7R V and it has similar issues with Loxia lenses, so I don't think it's limited to the a1. It seems to be more that models starting with the a1 seem to have some incompatibility with Loxia lenses. And it appears some CV as well, although I haven't really run into it yet with mine. (Might have seen it on the CV 15 mildly...haven't used the 65 and 110 extensively with the a7RV to form an opinion.)
GMPhotography wrote:
Wish I could help but never had the Loxia glass with my A1. Hope you all figure it out
Edited on Aug 23, 2023 at 11:04 AM · View previous versions
GMPhotography wrote:
Wish I could help but never had the Loxia glass with my A1. Hope you all figure it out
Edited on Aug 23, 2023 at 11:04 AM · View previous versions
Aug 23, 2023 at 11:01 AM