p.47 #1 · Z9 and Z8 ! : A thread for Z9/Z8 images and *discussion*
Blakehfreeman wrote:
Not having a shutter sound is extremely disorienting… I burned through a few hundred unwanted frames yesterday not realizing I was taking photos.
The camera locked up on me once - no back buttons responded to me - reboot fixed the issue.
So far, I keep my simulated sound on low volume & frequency. Only I can hear it and sometimes even I can't hear it if there is too much ambient noise. This is something you'll acclimate to, quickly.
Wifey & I took a little trip this week & she was shooting her D500 next to me with the Z9. While the D500 shutter noise is relatively quiet (compared to D850, D5, etc.), there were multiple instances when her shutter sound scared birds away. This was the 1st time I could see the difference, as I could shoot to my content, but when she started shooting, subjects would often scatter.
It's strange that it was not so obvious to me when I was shooting D500 / D850 as it was this trip.
Fortunately, I have not experienced the lockups you are mentioning. Have you updated the firmware and what cards are you using? Just out of curiosity.
p.47 #2 · Z9 and Z8 ! : A thread for Z9/Z8 images and *discussion*
The lock up was with the stock firmware... I updated the firmware about an hour ago. I'll keep an eye on it to see if it happens again. I love the quiet/vibration free shooting of the camera... but coming from a F3/F5/D3/D850 history its very weird not hearing anything. I think more than the lack of a sound - its the lack of any black out that is breaking my brain. My wife is upset as she "likes how my F5 sounds" 🤦🏼♂️.
EyeSpyEagle wrote:
So far, I keep my simulated sound on low volume & frequency. Only I can hear it and sometimes even I can't hear it if there is too much ambient noise. This is something you'll acclimate to, quickly.
Wifey & I took a little trip this week & she was shooting her D500 next to me with the Z9. While the D500 shutter noise is relatively quiet (compared to D850, D5, etc.), there were multiple instances when her shutter sound scared birds away. This was the 1st time I could see the difference, as I could shoot to my content, but when she started shooting, subjects would often scatter.
It's strange that it was not so obvious to me when I was shooting D500 / D850 as it was this trip.
Fortunately, I have not experienced the lockups you are mentioning. Have you updated the firmware and what cards are you using? Just out of curiosity....Show more →
p.47 #3 · Z9 and Z8 ! : A thread for Z9/Z8 images and *discussion*
EyeSpyEagle wrote:
So far, I keep my simulated sound on low volume & frequency. Only I can hear it and sometimes even I can't hear it if there is too much ambient noise. This is something you'll acclimate to, quickly.
Wifey & I took a little trip this week & she was shooting her D500 next to me with the Z9. While the D500 shutter noise is relatively quiet (compared to D850, D5, etc.), there were multiple instances when her shutter sound scared birds away. This was the 1st time I could see the difference, as I could shoot to my content, but when she started shooting, subjects would often scatter.
It's strange that it was not so obvious to me when I was shooting D500 / D850 as it was this trip.
Fortunately, I have not experienced the lockups you are mentioning. Have you updated the firmware and what cards are you using? Just out of curiosity....Show more →
It is not the shutter actually that makes most of the sound you hear when you take a shot with a dslr, but it is the mirror slap. The shutter is relatively silent, and there is little against using the mechanical shutter or electronic first curtain shutter on a mirrorless body, although electronic shutter may be the best option if the sensor scan rate is fast enough.
p.47 #4 · Z9 and Z8 ! : A thread for Z9/Z8 images and *discussion*
Blakehfreeman wrote:
Stupppppid Question of the day:
If the Nikon Z9 will be updated shortly to allow 8K 60FPS raw..... why can't the camera support raw in stills at 60 FPS?
Hear me out and then explain... why can't the camera support "small" 33 megapixel RAW? Thinking out loud but curious.
I expect the answer is that the Z9 can't handle the bitrate required. My back-of- the-napkin calculation indicates the Z9's sensor off-load rate is 45.7MP x 14 bits x 20fps = 12,796 Mbps and your asking it to handle 33MP x 14 bits x 60 fps = 27,720 Mbps. Not enough bandwidth.
And remember, stills raw is nothing like video "raw", the latter being just a less-compressed codec.
p.47 #5 · Z9 and Z8 ! : A thread for Z9/Z8 images and *discussion*
ChrisMak wrote:
It is not the shutter actually that makes most of the sound you hear when you take a shot with a dslr, but it is the mirror slap. The shutter is relatively silent, and there is little against using the mechanical shutter or electronic first curtain shutter on a mirrorless body, although electronic shutter may be the best option if the sensor scan rate is fast enough.
The very quiet mechanical shutters on the newer Leica M series cameras seems to confirm this. I can hear a very soft click when taking an image, but someone just a few feet away will likely hear nothing.
p.47 #6 · Z9 and Z8 ! : A thread for Z9/Z8 images and *discussion*
I guess what I'm getting at is the camera CAN handle 33mpix/raw in video.... in theory the camera should be able to do the same in stills. Wish we had the option for even 12bit raw at 60fps in "Small 33mpix RAW."
Gary Irwin wrote:
I expect the answer is that the Z9 can't handle the bitrate required. My back-of- the-napkin calculation indicates the Z9's sensor off-load rate is 45.7MP x 14 bits x 20fps = 12,796 Mbps and your asking it to handle 33MP x 14 bits x 60 fps = 27,720 Mbps. Not enough bandwidth.
And remember, stills raw is nothing like video "raw", the latter being just a less-compressed codec.
p.47 #8 · Z9 and Z8 ! : A thread for Z9/Z8 images and *discussion*
Gary Irwin wrote:
I expect the answer is that the Z9 can't handle the bitrate required. My back-of- the-napkin calculation indicates the Z9's sensor off-load rate is 45.7MP x 14 bits x 20fps = 12,796 Mbps and your asking it to handle 33MP x 14 bits x 60 fps = 27,720 Mbps. Not enough bandwidth.
And remember, stills raw is nothing like video "raw", the latter being just a less-compressed codec.
I assume that sensor bandwidth is not an issue since it can read out 30 fps jpg at 45mp.
I would assume that the sensor would readout exactly the same information whether it is raw or jpg but
probably the processor power in Expeed or something downstream from the sensor that cannot handle
30 fps raw processing. Afterall, sensor readspeed is supposed to be faster than A1 so if A1 can do lossy raw at 30 fps,
I don't see why Z9 sensor cannot handle that. Now, I think it is entirely possible that in the future, Nikon may be able
to release fw that might add support for 30 fps or faster shooting with some kind of lossy raw perhaps.
p.47 #9 · Z9 and Z8 ! : A thread for Z9/Z8 images and *discussion*
suteetat wrote:
I assume that sensor bandwidth is not an issue since it can read out 30 fps jpg at 45mp.
I would assume that the sensor would readout exactly the same information whether it is raw or jpg but
probably the processor power in Expeed or something downstream from the sensor that cannot handle
30 fps raw processing. Afterall, sensor readspeed is supposed to be faster than A1 so if A1 can do lossy raw at 30 fps,
I don't see why Z9 sensor cannot handle that. Now, I think it is entirely possible that in the future, Nikon may be able
to release fw that might add support for 30 fps or faster shooting with some kind of lossy raw perhaps.
Agreed -- It makes sense Nikon optimized sensor read speed in order to minimize rolling shutter but apparently had to make compromises downstream. I am a little disappointed Nikon couldn't manage to maintain 30fps raw though -- I like having 30fps for BIF.
p.47 #10 · Z9 and Z8 ! : A thread for Z9/Z8 images and *discussion*
Gary Irwin wrote:
Agreed -- It makes sense Nikon optimized sensor read speed in order to minimize rolling shutter but apparently had to make compromises downstream. I am a little disappointed Nikon couldn't manage to maintain 30fps raw though -- I like having 30fps for BIF.
What a time to be a photographer if this is one of our complaints (not that it's not valid these days!)
p.47 #12 · Z9 and Z8 ! : A thread for Z9/Z8 images and *discussion*
RoamingScott wrote:
What a time to be a photographer if this is one of our complaints (not that it's not valid these days!)
Not a complaint, but the crappy weather lately is interfering with my desire to get out and shoot, so I end up spending way to much time on these forums.
p.47 #14 · Z9 and Z8 ! : A thread for Z9/Z8 images and *discussion*
RoamingScott wrote:
What a time to be a photographer if this is one of our complaints (not that it's not valid these days!)
Technology is a wonderful thing. Imagine 20 years ago, if 30 fps was available, you would have to load new film almost every second
I now come home after a day shooting with several thousands shots with Z9 and I am not even shooting 20 fps most of the time . But certainly, it would be nice to have 30 fps option for the right situation.
p.47 #15 · Z9 and Z8 ! : A thread for Z9/Z8 images and *discussion*
Gary Irwin wrote:
Agreed -- It makes sense Nikon optimized sensor read speed in order to minimize rolling shutter but apparently had to make compromises downstream. I am a little disappointed Nikon couldn't manage to maintain 30fps raw though -- I like having 30fps for BIF.
Sony kept A1 underwrap very well and early 2021 when I first heard about Z9, Nikon really had its eye on R3 and A9. I think Canon aim for more FPS but same resolution while Nikon aimed to match FPS with higher resolution.
When I first heard 40-50mp/20 fps for Z9, that was about 2 weeks before Sony dropped the big A1 bomb and ruined the Nikon party .
Unfortunately, by that time, all hardware specs are pretty much done. So it really depends now whether NIkon can do something with firmware and I heard that they are definitely trying to do something may be wiht HE+ to get more FPS but we won't know if that is possible or not until they release it. Last I heard they try to aim for 36 fps even, with HE+ so keep my fingers cross but for now I am content with 20 fps raw.
p.47 #16 · Z9 and Z8 ! : A thread for Z9/Z8 images and *discussion*
suteetat wrote:
Sony kept A1 underwrap very well and early 2021 when I first heard about Z9, Nikon really had its eye on R3 and A9. I think Canon aim for more FPS but same resolution while Nikon aimed to match FPS with higher resolution.
When I first heard 40-50mp/20 fps for Z9, that was about 2 weeks before Sony dropped the big A1 bomb and ruined the Nikon party .
Unfortunately, by that time, all hardware specs are pretty much done. So it really depends now whether NIkon can do something with firmware and I heard that they are definitely trying to do something may be wiht HE+ to get more FPS but we won't know if that is possible or not until they release it. Last I heard they try to aim for 36 fps even, with HE+ so keep my fingers cross but for now I am content with 20 fps raw. ...Show more →
p.47 #17 · Z9 and Z8 ! : A thread for Z9/Z8 images and *discussion*
I shoot the Z9 at 8, 12 and 15 FPS 80% of the time. Sometimes 20, but in short bursts. I can't imagine messing with 30fps. 20's more than enough for the most part. rick2906 wrote:
20 fps is plenty imo.
Table 3 on page 177 shows the species and the wing beat frequency. Table 1 on page 173 is used to identify the species number from table 3. Page 175 explains the process for measuring wingbeat frequency. Short summary they were using equipment at 30 fps to record, and then they would go back to count full wing beats.
Let's take a look at species 352 which is the bald eagle. Four full wing beats were observed at 30 fps. So either at 30 fps or 20 fps you're not missing much.
If you look at species 364 (osprey), they have a wingbeat frequency of 20 full wingbeats observed at 30 fps. The Z9 is going to deliver almost 14 full wingbeats at 20 fps. You will get an extra 6 full wingbeats observed at 30 fps with an A1.
Of course the 20 fps is a self imposed limitation if you don't want to use other options such as the 120 fps mode.
p.47 #20 · Z9 and Z8 ! : A thread for Z9/Z8 images and *discussion*
Pro Tip:
Buffleheads are best shot at 15 or 30. 20 gets the same two wing positions over and over so if you aren't lucky to get full up or full down you can ruin an entire burst with intermediate (less than ideal) positions. At 15 and 30 you will get a whole sequence of different positions.
I'm sure some other intermediate values like 12 would work also.
