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Archive 2021 · Photo Equipment for a month long? trip to Italy

  
 
1bwana1
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p.3 #1 · Photo Equipment for a month long? trip to Italy


Rich,

Honestly the trains in Rome are a problem. It is a hunting ground and you are the prey. A bag will be fine for convenience items. But for valuables it is simply not safe these days. I won't even wear a camera on a strap that is outside my coat on the trains. If you carry any kind of bag, never on your back or side. Only across your front. None of the bags you show are secure enough in my opinion. They will cut the strap, take the camera and bag throw it to another person while others constrain your movements. I see it happen all of the time. They use women, kids, old people, to position and distract you. It happens many times, every day. It is just when it is your turn.

I used to look forward to my turn. Back in my Africa adventuring and race car driving days I used to work out with trainers six days a week. I am 6'4" and was strong. I loved getting my hands in them. These days not so much. I would prefer not to present a target and just go about my day as pleasantly as possible.

The good thing is that they are not the violent mugger types we get here in the U.S.. they are more snatch and run. They don't like physical confrontations. The people who do the stealing are not prone to fighting even when grabbed. But they often have the protectors in the background for when this happens. This is where I had my biggest issues.

Look up how to protect yourself from these guys on the web. lots of good info. Best to just not make yourself a target.




Nov 24, 2021 at 01:08 PM
Alan Parker
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p.3 #2 · Photo Equipment for a month long? trip to Italy


naturephoto1 wrote:
If walking around Rome as an example will be an issue with the BackStory 13, maybe I should have one camera in the Kinesis Gear Pouch that I showed above and purchase another of these or either the Think Tank Mirrorless Mover 10 or Mirrorless Mover 12 and have both the Kinesis Gear Pouch (s) and one of the Mirrorless Mover bags mounted on the Think Tank belt

I personally have this bag (Manfrotto NX camera bodypack):
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41XmOicwz+L.jpg

It's really quite small, the zipper is slightly hidden in the creases and the bag comes with an insert. Perfect for transporting two cameras with a small-ish lens attached. I often put my A7R4 with the CV40 on in the little insert and then put the Sigma 24-70 in the general compartment. It also fits the A7R4 with the 100-400GM mounted (without the insert of course).
It blends in with the fashion kids have nowadays, nobody knows I have a camera with me, it's weatherproof and there is even some padding in there to protect my gear.



Nov 24, 2021 at 01:10 PM
mogul
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p.3 #3 · Photo Equipment for a month long? trip to Italy


zz wrote:
I personally have this bag (Manfrotto NX camera bodypack):
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41XmOicwz+L.jpg

It's really quite small, the zipper is slightly hidden in the creases and the bag comes with an insert. Perfect for transporting two cameras with a small-ish lens attached. I often put my A7R4 with the CV40 on in the little insert and then put the Sigma 24-70 in the general compartment. It also fits the A7R4 with the 100-400GM mounted (without the insert of course).
It blends in with the fashion kids have nowadays, nobody knows I have a camera with me, it's weatherproof and there is even some padding in there
...Show more

No one knows you have a camera with you? Thieves know that little red Manfrotto dot, after all it is Italian.



Nov 24, 2021 at 01:15 PM
naturephoto1
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p.3 #4 · Photo Equipment for a month long? trip to Italy


1bwana1 wrote:
Rich,

Honestly the trains in Rome are a problem. It is a hunting ground and you are the prey. A bag will be fine for convenience items. But for valuables it is simply not safe these days. I won't even wear a camera on a strap that is outside my coat on the trains. If you carry any kind of bag, never on your back or side. Only across your front. None of the bags you show are secure enough in my opinion. They will cut the strap, take the camera and bag throw it to another person while others
...Show more

Hi Steve,

How about 2 of these that I showed earlier:

And the Kinesis Gear Pouch is small and rather inconspicuous:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1658/4705/products/M330KObig_1024x1024.jpg

The new one would have their new logo. But they are non descript. Or the old one that is above and an older Kinesis Gear (an a bit larger) pouch that all can bit put on the Think Tank belt.

Rich





Nov 24, 2021 at 01:19 PM
1bwana1
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p.3 #5 · Photo Equipment for a month long? trip to Italy


This has been me more than once. Good times...




Nov 24, 2021 at 01:19 PM
Alan Parker
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p.3 #6 · Photo Equipment for a month long? trip to Italy


mogul wrote:
No one knows you have a camera with you? Thieves know that little red Manfrotto dot, after all it is Italian.

I've had no problems wearing it on the subway/around train stations in Paris, London, Porto, Brussels and Amsterdam to name a few. The red dot can be removed, but I haven't felt the need to.
It was more of a conversation piece anyway, not to tell Rich what to buy.



Nov 24, 2021 at 01:22 PM
1bwana1
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p.3 #7 · Photo Equipment for a month long? trip to Italy


naturephoto1 wrote:
Hi Steve,

How about 2 of these that I showed earlier:

And the Kinesis Gear Pouch is small and rather inconspicuous:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1658/4705/products/M330KObig_1024x1024.jpg

The new one would have their new logo. But they are non descript. Or the old one that is above and an older Kinesis Gear (an a bit larger) pouch that all can bit put on the Think Tank belt.

Rich



As long as it can go across your front rather than in the back or side it will most likely be OK. There will be easier prey for them to focus on.




Nov 24, 2021 at 01:29 PM
airfrogusmc
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p.3 #8 · Photo Equipment for a month long? trip to Italy


My travel kit.
Plus red, yellow, green and orage filters and 3 batteries and charger.


Nice, small and light and most important it it fits the way I see and work perfectly. No need for all the other stuff.



Nov 24, 2021 at 01:31 PM
tzhang4284
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p.3 #9 · Photo Equipment for a month long? trip to Italy


naturephoto1 wrote:
This is a companion piece to my thread that I started a short time age regarding downloading photos and accessing the internet for an extended period of time while traveling. This thread will be regarding what photo equipment that I should take for what may turn out to be a month long trip to Italy in March of next year with my wife who now needs a rollator (we got her a rollator for all terrain with pneumatic tires), my Step Daughter who is having some health issues and her friend.

First let me say, I am an "old time" photographer
...Show more

It sounds like you have a lot of stuff outside of camera gear to bring (e.g. a rollator and a month worth of stuff) + you will be relying on public transportation for your trip. Consider going as minimalist as possible - leave the Sony A1 and 100-400mm at home if you have access to multiple camera bodies. The 100-400mm is a lot of lens to bring for little use.

Your 4 voigtlander primes on one or two cheaper bodies and a single AF zoom of some kind is probably enough unless photography is the primary purpose of your trip. After going to Europe many times, I found that most pictures that most people take are generally uninteresting and have been taken before.

The ones that are interesting to me are usually done with unique lenses or for just capturing the memory of you being there. For the former category, your primes will give you that (bring the 12mm though - I always found 20mm to not be wide enough for interiors in Europe). For capturing the memory, a nice AF mid-range zoom - e.g. sony 28-60mm or 24-105mm f4 will do the job. A Sony RX100 could be a great alternative too. Much less painful than manual focusing or changing lenses in broad daylight with everyone watching.

No need to torture yourself with a big pile of lenses on top of everything else you're carrying. Theft is also no joke - I would bring a cheap looking camera bag that only opens from the back. I haven't had anything expensive stolen from me in Europe but somebody bothered to take my $10 mini tripod so the effort is high. Unless it's inside your bag and secured, expect everything to be fair game.



Nov 24, 2021 at 01:39 PM
rscheffler
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p.3 #10 · Photo Equipment for a month long? trip to Italy


Hi Rich, similar to you, my lens preference is a kit of M-mount 21, 28, 35, 50 and 90. I still find some value in the close 28, 35 and 50 spacing as those are what I use most, and all being M mount lenses, are very small. In your case, I could see some logic in 28, 40 and 50 because the 40 is so small. I once had the older VM35/1.2 and similar to the ZM, it was fairly large (for an M lens) and found I didn't bring it along or use it much. Really only in specific low light situations. But given the high ISO quality of current sensors combined with IBIS in the Sony cameras, I think you can get away with slower, smaller lenses given your work seems to be more of the stopped down type than shallow DOF bokeh-centric (of which you can still get to a lesser degree with your f/2 lenses).

Unlike others who prefer the minimalist one lens, one camera approach, I enjoy using multiple lenses and don't find lens changes to be burdensome. When I get into the flow photographing something that interests me, the lens changes are fluid and automatic. But I think a big part of that is that the M lenses are very small and I can easily access them from a small pouch at my waist. If I had to remove a backpack every time I wanted to change lenses, it would definitely kill the flow. I've been in those situations before where I'd skip a photo because of the hassle of accessing gear in a bag on my back... You want to make it as frictionless as possible for you, while still being safe in whatever environment you're working.

I like the look of the Backstory bag - it looks like a fairly ordinary (non-photo) daypack, but seems like you'll have to take it off fully to access gear, unless there's a way to sling it from one arm depending on which side of the back you want to access. I also wonder with small M-mount lenses, if they'll end up floating around inside unless you can get the partitions set up quite small. Something like the Backlight series could be better for access because you don't have to fully remove it to open the back, though the flap does seem to get in the way. But the appearance is more like a hiking backpack, for better or worse. 18L might also be bigger than you need/want. In terms of fluidly accessing gear, the Rotation series might be best, but IMO looks more dorky. And again, 22L might be more bag than you need/want (though could hold other things for your daily outings).

I can't say I've really answered the question of accessing gear in a 100% satisfactory way for myself, either. For urban environments, I converted a nice looking "murse" (men's purse) into a lens pouch with 4 slots to carry M lenses while shooting. It sits in front at my waist where I can quickly change lenses. When not shooting - in transit or environments where maybe I don't want it to be so visible, it will go into a small daypack or generic non-photo shoulder bag along with the camera.

You could probably rig something with the ThinkTank belt you mentioned, with a few smaller pouches for lenses. But then you're going to have a lot of stuff always attached at your waist, which could make moving through busy spaces less fluid.

For non-urban environments, I've been using a ThinkTank Turnstyle 10 sling as my 'lens changer' bag. I can configure it with 5 slots to accommodate the above-mentioned 21/28/35/50/90 lens configuration, plus hold a few batteries, polarizing filters, blower, etc. When I'm shooting, it's swung around to the front and sits against my chest. I do carry a second bag for other things like water, rain coat, etc. It remains fairly light, so isn't much of a burden not being a backpack. I just hang my tripod from the sling by sliding its strap under one leg.

I agree with other comments that without more info about what you intend to photograph, it's difficult to know how much usefulness lenses on the extremes of the range will be - i.e. 12 & 100-400. You mentioned church interiors, so I can see where the 12 would be useful.

My European travels were mostly within Germany, though some trips to northern Italy too. Some trips I brought a VM15 and/or the older Voigtlander 12/5.6 LTM (very small), but found I didn't use them that much. I guess it really depends on your style of seeing. I've been pretty content with the 21-90 range. For you, the WATE will probably be a very flexible option to have. Difficult to say about the 12. But it's also not that huge, at least compared to the 100-400...

My limited experience in Italy inside some churches was either no tripods allowed, or even no photography. Back in the film days, there were times I brought along a Manfrotto Super Clamp with small ball head to attach to pews, etc. Not sure I'd do that now with IBIS and bracing against something.

As for theft prevention: maybe some of the PacSafe products, such as their camera strap?

Otherwise, I think in this time when everyone shoots with a smartphone, anyone walking around with a camera will stand out more. Once it's out, it really doesn't matter what kind of bag you're carrying, as you've immediately become a bigger target for a certain audience.

Given you intend to travel primarily by public transit, you really need to keep the number of bags to a minimum in order to negotiation all the potential obstacles. For example, unlike much of urban America, there can still be a lot of cobblestone or other type of stone work instead of concrete and asphalt, transforming roller bags from effortless into a real chore. And I can't count the number of times taking the metro where the escalator in the direction I wanted (up or down) was disabled or at the other end of the platform, or the elevator was out of service. And this was in Germany/Munich where you'd think maintenance would be better. Just be sure to give yourself time, or take a taxi when it makes sense.



Nov 24, 2021 at 02:08 PM
Craig Gillette
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p.3 #11 · Photo Equipment for a month long? trip to Italy


I'm a zoom user for the usual reasons so no insight on selecting a few perfect primes out of many.

On our trip to Italy we had a more compressed schedule based on my daughter's school break schedule so I was somewhat restricted in indulging all of my photo whims. Schedule was firm and the definition of "too much" seemed to swing towards "less" is better. Which is pretty much true. Too much stuff gets in the way, is hard to deal with and secure, photo gear or not.

I like the idea of a clamp/base on the rollator and would consider mobility issues with a group important in planning. Pulling a roller bag across Florence in a hurry to get to the train station was difficult.

I'd likely consider a 28-200 and 17-28/2.8 and call it a day (and even then might look back fondly on an aps-c kit). Of course schedule and locations might allow for time and different gear choices. I recently added newer denoising post processing software and revisited some of the old NEX6 shots. I was impressed with the improvements so between a newer camera and newer software, I'd probably talk myself out of a fast prime "just in case." Although many interiors were quite dim so that choice is still a bit of a dilemna.



Nov 24, 2021 at 02:32 PM
Robin Smith
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p.3 #12 · Photo Equipment for a month long? trip to Italy


The OPs travel options are exhausting. Are you documenting something for pay, or is this for pleasure? If for pleasure why even consider the complete overkill. You don't "need" anything. I advise travel with as little as possible and enjoy yourself, otherwise this sounds like a trip for masochists. Traveling "light" with a 100-400mm lens is not what I would call light (unless we are talking micro 43). I would take the Leica M WATE (16/18/21mm), Voigtlander 28mm, Voigtlander 50mm f2, Voigtlander 90mm f2.8 and one body only. If you must take a longer lens I would take the lightest you have, probably the Apo-Telyt. No need to take the Minolta CL, just use the body you have with one lens if you want to go out with less.


Nov 24, 2021 at 03:13 PM
naturephoto1
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p.3 #13 · Photo Equipment for a month long? trip to Italy


rscheffler wrote:
Hi Rich, similar to you, my lens preference is a kit of M-mount 21, 28, 35, 50 and 90. I still find some value in the close 28, 35 and 50 spacing as those are what I use most, and all being M mount lenses, are very small. In your case, I could see some logic in 28, 40 and 50 because the 40 is so small. I once had the older VM35/1.2 and similar to the ZM, it was fairly large (for an M lens) and found I didn't bring it along or use it much. Really only in
...Show more

Hi Ron,

Thanks for your thoughts and input. I do have other Think Tank and Mindshift bags that I can pack in the suitcase including the Think Tank URBAN ACCESS™ 10 SLING BAG and the Mindshift Gear Backlight 18L and 26L. The Mindshift Gear Backpacks are too large as a personal item, which is the reason to travel with the BackStory 13. I have 2 Manfrotto Super Clamps, but if I went with a clamp, I might consider something smaller. Though the Zeiss 35mm f1.4 Distagon ZM performs so well on the A7rII Kolari Vision UT sensor modified camera it is on the order of size and weight of the Leica M WATE which provides many more focal lengths. For size and weight, no question about the Minolta CLE MC 40mm f2 M-Rokker it might be OK though it is not the Zeiss; it does perform better with Kolari Vision modified A7rII as does the WATE. Also, since SK Grimes performed the work on the Voigtlander 12mm lens, the lens is even smaller than in the original form and can be used with an assortment of filters.

I also checked since I received a PM regarding the Kinesis Gear Multi- Pouch (M330), depending upon how I loaded 2 of them and stacking some of the small M-mount lenses, I could load 2 cameras with mounted lenses and up to an additional 3 lenses in the 2 pouches. 2 Kinesis Gear M330 pouches would be easy to pack in my suitcase especially if I do not pack a Mindshift Backlight Series Backpack and/or the Think Tank URBAN ACCESS™ 10 SLING BAG.

I am intending to take and wear a light weight Photography Vest which I can stuff some stuff in including batteries, battery chargers (if need be) and even some filters and adapters.

I know someone has suggested using a less expensive camera than the A1 and if I did, I would take my A7rIII in its place, though I would still prefer to bring the A1.

I will look into finding a "Murse" as an option.

As to cobblestone and such, I would not intend to use my Think Tank Roller except for the purposes of Air Travel and traveling normally from city to city as an example. I would normally expect that we were out for the day and for shooting there would be something on my Back and/or around my waist.

Rich



Nov 24, 2021 at 03:27 PM
zugzwang2
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p.3 #14 · Photo Equipment for a month long? trip to Italy


tzhang4284 wrote:
Unless it's inside your bag and secured, expect everything to be fair game.


I suppose that is an argument for carrying gear in something that doesn't scream that it holds an expensive camera.

Diaper bags work. However, I happen to prefer something that doesn't just dangle from my shoulder, so a lumbar pack with an attached shoulder strap works for me--in combination with a photography-specific insert.

Inexpensive padded inserts fit in both of my well-used old lumbar packs. Here's an example of a lightweight insert that allows me to comfortably carry an A7R III with one small lens (e.g., Voigtlander 50 APO) mounted and up to two more small lenses and a flash in a lumbar pack--along with extra stuff like a water bottle, lunch, or raingear:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1461733-REG/ruggard_pib_1sg_compact_camera_insert.html

That won't fit everything that might go on this trip, but it's a start. The pack can be worn behind or in front, depending on need.

FWIW, clipping (or locking) the pack's zipper pulls together might at least slow down a thief. . . .











Nov 24, 2021 at 04:17 PM
isohw
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p.3 #15 · Photo Equipment for a month long? trip to Italy


From my experience of 2 weeks in Toscane with GF.
I went with CV21, 35ZA, 55ZA, G90.

If i could do the same trip I would pick :
- CV 21 again : little gem and very usefull for architecture/city
- 28-60/75 zoom range for speed/versatility in city walks (lion's share) or 28-200 if u like to capture detail. 35ZA was too tight, I didn like to swap lens in crowed places.
- a fast lens prime for diner/evening walk (40 to 50mm) to go out with 1 lens.
- my ricoh gr II 28 eq.

If I want to go light on a day walk, I can pair my prime 40/50 with either CV 21 or ricoh 28 eq.



Nov 24, 2021 at 04:24 PM
panos.v
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p.3 #16 · Photo Equipment for a month long? trip to Italy


zugzwang2 wrote:
I suppose that is an argument for carrying gear in something that doesn't scream that it holds an expensive camera.


The problem with "something that doesn't scream that it holds an expensive camera" is that it works up to the point where you open that bag and take out an expensive camera. Which is about 23 seconds after you step out from the hotel.



Nov 24, 2021 at 05:32 PM
DaveFP
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p.3 #17 · Photo Equipment for a month long? trip to Italy


I have insurance for my gear so I don't worry about it.

The only items I won't travel with are collectible lenses because they are hard to replace.

I can't see leaving my best gear home while traveling through inspiring places.

Didn't buy it all to shoot squirrels in the backyard.




Nov 24, 2021 at 05:38 PM
chez
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p.3 #18 · Photo Equipment for a month long? trip to Italy


DaveFP wrote:
I have insurance for my gear so I don't worry about it.

The only items I won't travel with are collectible lenses because they are hard to replace.

I can't see leaving my best gear home while traveling through inspiring places.

Didn't buy it all to shoot squirrels in the backyard.



I also agree with taking the best gear you have on your trip. Another thing many people do is get into "snapshot" mode during travels. Stay your course, look for enchanting compositions and light and don't try to shoot everything. Better to come back with a few great images than a boatload of mediocre images.



Nov 24, 2021 at 05:47 PM
chez
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p.3 #19 · Photo Equipment for a month long? trip to Italy


panos.v wrote:
The problem with "something that doesn't scream that it holds an expensive camera" is that it works up to the point where you open that bag and take out an expensive camera. Which is about 23 seconds after you step out from the hotel.


Yep...most of my travels has my camera around my wrist so the surprise is all gone. I'd look at comfort being the most important aspect in the bag...it'll be with you your entire trip. Don't forget to allow room for things like a jacket, sunscreen, water etc..., especially if you are out all day long.



Nov 24, 2021 at 05:49 PM
soarfm
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p.3 #20 · Photo Equipment for a month long? trip to Italy


Less is more.

My philosophy when traveling is the camera bag is to get your gear to the room from the airport. During the day, a camera with a lens and 2 other lenses in neoprene sacks stuffed into a rucksack along with jacket, snacks, water bottle etc… have a wrap for your camera and lens when you want to put it in the rucksack also. If you really want to guard against equipment failure, a second body in the room, just in case…

YMMV.



Nov 24, 2021 at 06:01 PM
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