p.22 #1 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
Steve Spencer wrote:
Yes, the Sony is considerably smaller and faster to AF. The Nikon's advantage as I understand it is primarily for video where it has substantially less focus breathing and here is also where smoothness of the AF is important. For video the speed of the Sony for AF is in some ways a disadvantage and makes shifts in focus a bit too disorienting.
One compromise Sony has often made as I understand it is that in keeping lenses small they have sacrificed focus breathing. I do think that larger lenses can handle focus breathing more easily. For my tastes I am very happy with this compromise, but I can understand for those who want to shoot video a fair bit prefer the opposite decision (making larger lenses with less focus breathing) which Nikon seems to have adopted. This may partly be where the two brands stand regarding video. Sony has lots of options for video both made by themselves and others and therefore can make lenses without worrying about video as much. Nikon pretty much has to rely on themselves for video so may make video performance a higher priority in their lenses....Show more →
Sony has recently taken the route of dealing with focus breathing in camera software in their latest bodies like the a7iv. It should soon find its way into other bodies through firmware updates. This is similar to dealing with other issues like distortion, and aberrations with software correction to optical issues. It seems to work very well from what I have seen. For many I am sure this will be a good solution. It may be why Sony has made the compromises it has in these recent GM lenses.
p.22 #2 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
1bwana1 wrote:
Sony has recently taken the route of dealing with focus breathing in camera software in their latest bodies like the a7iv. It should soon find its way into other bodies through firmware updates. This is similar to dealing with other issues like distortion, and aberrations with software correction to optical issues. It seems to work very well from what I have seen. For many I am sure this will be a good solution. It may be why Sony has made the compromises it has in these recent GM lenses.
Yep, I also think it's a different approach to video. Nikon churns out bigger/longer lenses in order to minimize focus breathing (their f1.8 line too), while Sony sacrifices it in order to make the lenses more compact.
I'm not really a fan of correcting breathing digitally (as it's simply cropping, so you can end up cropping a lot in extreme cases, e.g. 35GM), but I do value the size savings more and I'm mostly focused on photos so I'll take that trade .
As for focus operation smoothness in video, I think it can be controlled pretty well in the current bodies (via AF Transition Speed setting in movie menu) so I don't think Sony loses on that front...
Jan 12, 2022 at 01:31 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.22 #3 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
1bwana1 wrote:
Sony has recently taken the route of dealing with focus breathing in camera software in their latest bodies like the a7iv. It should soon find its way into other bodies through firmware updates. This is similar to dealing with other issues like distortion, and aberrations with software correction to optical issues. It seems to work very well from what I have seen. For many I am sure this will be a good solution. It may be why Sony has made the compromises it has in these recent GM lenses.
Sorry, IMO, this is a solution for low level video work, but not for high level video work. Precise framing while shooting and planning to shooting is critical for higher level work and having in effect the focal length you will be using vary by the focus distance is simply a huge pain in the ass for high level work.
p.22 #4 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
Steve Spencer wrote:
Sorry, IMO, this is a solution for low level video work, but not for high level video work. Precise framing while shooting and planning to shooting is critical for higher level work and having in effect the focal length you will be using vary by the focus distance is simply a huge pain in the ass for high level work.
In general, I believe that focus breathing is a larger issue for small filmmakers, and less so for high level filmmakers. The reason being that small filmmakers can not afford to use Arri signature primes or Cooke optics and have a dedicated focus puller. Autofocus with heavy focus breathing and a stationery camera looks incredibly jarring, and this is something that you would simply not deal with as a high level film maker.
While some cinematographers like Roger Deakins avoid focus breathing like it were the plague. Much of high level video work is shot on anamorphic lenses which are very poorly corrected for focus breathing. It is something that youtube reviewers obsess over. There is focus breathing in the Arri 65 shot, and best picture winning Parasite visible at this timestamped link ?t=177. Of course, it isn't visible in many of the scenes of the movie because they simply don't rack focus very often, or they're using different lenses in other scenes that are corrected for focus breathing. The new Star Wars trilogy also had heavy focus breathing in many scenes.
So it makes sense that Sony would introduce such a feature on their mirrorless cameras, rather than on their cinema line. High end filmmakers are generally not shooting on GM lenses, or stills lenses in general. Of course, there are exceptions, like Army of the Dead which was shot on 60 year old Canon rangefinder 50mm f/0.95 lenses. And those high level film makers will be able to buy whatever tool for the job they need. Lower level filmmakers need to buy what fits their budget, and can be used for many different purposes.
p.22 #9 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
Steve Spencer wrote:
Sorry, IMO, this is a solution for low level video work, but not for high level video work. Precise framing while shooting and planning to shooting is critical for higher level work and having in effect the focal length you will be using vary by the focus distance is simply a huge pain in the ass for high level work.
While the crop varies by focus distance, the frame presented to the end user is constant from the get go and precise framing is possible. Either you don't understand how it works or you've never seen a demonstration.
p.22 #11 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
👍 👍 👍
arbitrage wrote:
My Z9 is shipping today....I'll give you the "real" 10 differences shortly...
Jan 12, 2022 at 03:07 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.22 #12 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
Jesse Evans wrote:
In general, I believe that focus breathing is a larger issue for small filmmakers, and less so for high level filmmakers. The reason being that small filmmakers can not afford to use Arri signature primes or Cooke optics and have a dedicated focus puller. Autofocus with heavy focus breathing and a stationery camera looks incredibly jarring, and this is something that you would simply not deal with as a high level film maker.
While some cinematographers like Roger Deakins avoid focus breathing like it were the plague. Much of high level video work is shot on anamorphic lenses which are very poorly corrected for focus breathing. It is something that youtube reviewers obsess over. There is focus breathing in the Arri 65 shot, and best picture winning Parasite visible at this timestamped link ?t=177. Of course, it isn't visible in many of the scenes of the movie because they simply don't rack focus very often, or they're using different lenses in other scenes that are corrected for focus breathing. The new Star Wars trilogy also had heavy focus breathing in many scenes.
So it makes sense that Sony would introduce such a feature on their mirrorless cameras, rather than on their cinema line. High end filmmakers are generally not shooting on GM lenses, or stills lenses in general. Of course, there are exceptions, like Army of the Dead which was shot on 60 year old Canon rangefinder 50mm f/0.95 lenses. And those high level film makers will be able to buy whatever tool for the job they need. Lower level filmmakers need to buy what fits their budget, and can be used for many different purposes....Show more →
I agree with all you say here and I think it is consistent with what I was saying. Software correction of focus breathing is not a high solution. Sony doesn't even offer it for their high end cameras. It is a mid-level solution and it will work for some things and not others. Personally, my video shoots are short but highly planned but I use manual lenses and do the focus pulls myself or sometimes I get someone to do the pulls for me but I always use manual. I wouldn't use GM lenses for what I do, but that is just me.
p.22 #14 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
arbitrage wrote:
Yeah....that may be the only way to avoid a catastrophe
If I do a Z9 v A1 cross posted on the Sony/Nikon boards things might get ugly.
Basically, who cares whether they object?
Both will be great cameras, having pro & cons, with people in each camp having a capable camera. Differences will be likely not huge enough to make people switch (with very rare exceptions). An objective assessment is always welcome. Considering the firmware updates Nikon introduces to make it better, I think there is a huge chance that Sony will be doing the same, esp. in case differences turn out to be bigger than expected.
I, personally, won't have any reason to switch, as the A1 is fantastic and even if the Nikon would be better in some aspects, I won't care. I won't be a better photographer.
Jan 12, 2022 at 03:36 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.22 #15 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
JVan_02 wrote:
While the crop varies by focus distance, the frame presented to the end user is constant from the get go and precise framing is possible. Either you don't understand how it works or you've never seen a demonstration.
Or you don't understand how I plan and shoot video? Hmm. I wonder which it is?
p.22 #17 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
Steve Spencer wrote:
Or you don't understand how I plan and shoot video? Hmm. I wonder which it is?
I dunno. Pretty sure you don't know what you're talking about.
I have a film production degree and lots of experience behind the camera. If you're worried about the FL of the crop, just calculate the effective FL at MFD for the reproduction ratio. If you're doing it by eye, look through the monitor. It isn't complicated.
Jan 12, 2022 at 04:37 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.22 #18 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
JVan_02 wrote:
I dunno. Pretty sure you don't know what you're talking about.
I have a film production degree and lots of experience behind the camera. If you're worried about the FL of the crop, just calculate the effective FL at MFD for the reproduction ratio. If you're doing it by eye, look through the monitor. It isn't complicated.
Yeah, but you have no idea about how I shoot and what my process is. It is extremely rude to say you think I don't know what I am talking about when you don't know me or what I do. Who said I was worried about focal length on the crop? I didn't. You might know about shooting video, but that doesn't mean you know how I shoot. Kind of arrogant to think you know that and suggest I don't know what I am talking about when you know nothing about my process.
My point is that the software correction of breathing won't work for my process and it is ridiculous for you to challenge that unless you know my process which you don't. So, since you can't challenge my statement you attack me personally by saying I don't know what I am talking about. Not cool. Not cool at all.
p.22 #19 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
Steve Spencer wrote:
Yeah, but you have no idea about how I shoot and what my process is. It is extremely rude to say you think I don't know what I am talking about when you don't know me or what I do. Who said I was worried about focal length on the crop? I didn't. You might know about shooting video, but that doesn't mean you know how I shoot. Kind of arrogant to think you know that and suggest I don't know what I am talking about when you know nothing about my process.
Okay. What part of your process makes precise framing impossible when it is possible in literally any other scenario? Are you filming blind?
You're the one who mentioned 'high-end' video work in correlation to framing.
Jan 12, 2022 at 04:57 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.22 #20 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
JVan_02 wrote:
Okay. What part of your process makes precise framing impossible when it is possible in literally any other scenario? Are you filming blind?
You're the one who mentioned 'high-end' video work in correlation to framing.
Yeah and you clearly didn't understand what I was saying. I was simply describing why I don't like focus breathing not whatever you think I was saying.
.