p.23 #1 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
Steve Spencer wrote:
Yeah and you clearly didn't understand what I was saying. I was simply describing why I don't like focus breathing not whatever you think I was saying.
Steve Spencer wrote:
Sorry, IMO, this is a solution for low level video work, but not for high level video work. Precise framing while shooting and planning to shooting is critical for higher level work and having in effect the focal length you will be using vary by the focus distance is simply a huge pain in the ass for high level work.
Ah, my apologies. I thought we were speaking English.
Jan 12, 2022 at 05:07 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.23 #2 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
JVan_02 wrote:
Ah, my apologies. I thought we were speaking English.
Uh, we were speaking English. You just didn't understand the reference to what you quoted was breathing in general and with that reference it didn't mean what you thought it meant. That was my bad for not being clearer, but all the arrogant personal attack stuff is on you and you decided to keep that up with this post. No real place for that here.
p.23 #3 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
I just came back from Florida. Spent 2 weeks mainly photographing birds. My friend shot with Z9 and I was using Sony A1. I tried the Z9 as well. We also met Mark Smith while shooting. After 30K images shot each with Z9 and A1, the consensus of all of us who used both cameras is that the Z9 AF needs tweaking a bit with firmware. It’s overall very close to A1 but there were many missed focus shots with Z9 compared to A1. It’s struggling a bit more with busy backgrounds. Overall the Z9 build is better than A1. Z9 had very good ergonomics but customization is limited. If you are interested in specific details, please PM me.
p.23 #6 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
Pkash wrote:
I just came back from Florida. Spent 2 weeks mainly photographing birds. My friend shot with Z9 and I was using Sony A1. I tried the Z9 as well. We also met Mark Smith while shooting. After 30K images shot each with Z9 and A1, the consensus of all of us who used both cameras is that the Z9 AF needs tweaking a bit with firmware. It’s overall very close to A1 but there were many missed focus shots with Z9 compared to A1. It’s struggling a bit more with busy backgrounds. Overall the Z9 build is better than A1. Z9 had very good ergonomics but customization is limited. If you are interested in specific details, please PM me. ...Show more →
Interesting and in line with other comparisons I have been sent.
p.23 #8 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
Steve Spencer wrote:
Yes, the Sony is considerably smaller and faster to AF. The Nikon's advantage as I understand it is primarily for video where it has substantially less focus breathing and here is also where smoothness of the AF is important. For video the speed of the Sony for AF is in some ways a disadvantage and makes shifts in focus a bit too disorienting.
One compromise Sony has often made as I understand it is that in keeping lenses small they have sacrificed focus breathing. I do think that larger lenses can handle focus breathing more easily. For my tastes I am very happy with this compromise, but I can understand for those who want to shoot video a fair bit prefer the opposite decision (making larger lenses with less focus breathing) which Nikon seems to have adopted. This may partly be where the two brands stand regarding video. Sony has lots of options for video both made by themselves and others and therefore can make lenses without worrying about video as much. Nikon pretty much has to rely on themselves for video so may make video performance a higher priority in their lenses....Show more →
Close but no cigar in saying that, “for video the speed of the Sony for AF is in some ways a disadvantage and makes shifts in focus a bit too disorienting.”
Sony, starting with the A7S III and now in the A1 and A7 IV, introduced a feature called AF transition speed which “Sets the speed at which the focus position is moved when the target of the auto focus is switched during movie shooting.” This allows you to either get smooth slow focus pulls/transitions or rapid/fast focus shifts. When used properly in conjunction with AF Subj. Shift Sensitivity, which “Sets the sensitivity with which the focus switches to another subject when the original subject leaves the focus area during movie shooting.”, allows you to achieve just about any kind of AF you prefer in video.
Jan 12, 2022 at 08:10 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.23 #9 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
greensony wrote:
Close but no cigar in saying that, “for video the speed of the Sony for AF is in some ways a disadvantage and makes shifts in focus a bit too disorienting.”
Sony, starting with the A7S III and now in the A1 and A7 IV, introduced a feature called AF transition speed which “Sets the speed at which the focus position is moved when the target of the auto focus is switched during movie shooting.” This allows you to either get smooth slow focus pulls/transitions or rapid/fast focus shifts. When used properly in conjunction with AF Subj. Shift Sensitivity, which “Sets the sensitivity with which the focus switches to another subject when the original subject leaves the focus area during movie shooting.”, allows you to achieve just about any kind of AF you prefer in video....Show more →
Sure the new cameras can adjust the focus speed and that is a good thing, but it doesn't change the fact that for video smoother focus speed is a good thing and fast AF speed has its drawbacks. Neither does it change that the Nikon 50 f/1.2S is clearly built with video in mind with its lack of focus breathing and smooth AF. The Sony 50 f/1.2 GM has some advantages for stills with a smaller size and faster AF. It is great that Sony is trying to do some things in camera to mitigate some of the issues for lenses that have focus breathing and less than smooth AF, but that doesn't change that one lens was built with video performance in mind and one was built with less concern for video performance. For me personally, even though I shoot video a fair bit, I want my AF lenses to be designed primarily with stills in mind and I am willing to sacrifice video performance. It is great that Sony is working to mitigate those compromises with in camera corrections, but I would always prefer the corrections to be built into the lens.
p.23 #10 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
Slow AF on a Sony camera = disappointment, not ready for prime time
Overly large lens on a Sony camera = mirrorless is overrated, no better than a DSLR, front heavy
Soft lens on a Sony camera = not sharp, disappointing compared to Nikon
Slow AF on an overly large lens that's not particularly sharp on an oversized Nikon camera = Excellent feature for smooth video on a camera with amazing ergonomics with a lens with great rendering.
I bought some Nikon stock (no joke) - hope the rabid fans put their money where their mouth is and buy a few Z9s and lenses!
p.23 #11 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
Pkash wrote:
I just came back from Florida. Spent 2 weeks mainly photographing birds. My friend shot with Z9 and I was using Sony A1. I tried the Z9 as well. We also met Mark Smith while shooting. After 30K images shot each with Z9 and A1, the consensus of all of us who used both cameras is that the Z9 AF needs tweaking a bit with firmware. It’s overall very close to A1 but there were many missed focus shots with Z9 compared to A1. It’s struggling a bit more with busy backgrounds. Overall the Z9 build is better than A1. Z9 had very good ergonomics but customization is limited. If you are interested in specific details, please PM me. ...Show more →
Nice, actual experience! What lenses were you guys using? Is there even a long Nikon lens with linear motors?
p.23 #14 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
hiepphotog wrote:
Still in the end, if you don't shoot them side by side on the daily basis, I imagine the Nikon would be fine.
Maybe, as long as you don't try to nail a moving Fro... The lackluster performance might also be due to using an atomos to record the sequence. Apparently that impacts the Z9 more than the others.
Some Fred made a side by side crop from the JPEGs. Beware, the Z9 is in the middle:
p.23 #15 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
Daran wrote:
Maybe, as long as you don't try to nail a moving Fro... The lackluster performance might also be due to using an atomos to record the sequence. Apparently that impacts the Z9 more than the others.
Some Fred made a side by side crop from the JPEGs. Beware, the Z9 is in the middle:
That's dedication .
To be honest, these photos would make a lot more sense with 70-200, as mentioned previously. Maybe someone can convince Fro...
p.23 #16 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
j4nu wrote:
That's dedication .
To be honest, these photos would make a lot more sense with 70-200, as mentioned previously. Maybe someone can convince Fro...
Multiple someones already tried in the comment section below Jareds video, so I doubt he'll release them. I hope he'll try again or at least have a follow up video going in deeper that just the EVF capture, though. Given the attention this seems to be getting, I expect the effort to be worthwhile for him whatever the outcome.
p.23 #17 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
Daran wrote:
The lackluster performance might also be due to using an atomos to record the sequence. Apparently that impacts the Z9 more than the others.
I’ve seen this mentioned a few times. What is the theory behind this?
Is it because of Nikon’s dual stream technology? By dedicating one stream off the sensor solely for the EVF. And the other stream split into capturing the actual image and the AF system. And with the Atomos added. The hdmi out also coming from that stream as well?
Would this theoretically affect video AF when outputting to an Atomos Ninja?
Is there a source for this speculation? Not saying I don’t believe you. Just trying to understand.
p.23 #18 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
robert614 wrote:
I’ve seen this mentioned a few times. What is the theory behind this?
Is it because of Nikon’s dual stream technology? By dedicating one stream off the sensor solely for the EVF. And the other stream split into capturing the actual image and the AF system. And with the Atomos added. The hdmi out also coming from that stream as well?
Would this theoretically affect video AF when outputting to an Atomos Ninja?
Is there a source for this speculation? Not saying I don’t believe you. Just trying to understand.
Matt Granger recently tested buffer sizes on the Z9 and used an Atomos to show what he was doing. It later turned out that the results were much worse compared to what he observed without the Atomos. That said, buffer size isn't AF speed and so far no one seems to know for sure whether AF is also affected by using an Atomos.
p.23 #19 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
Daran wrote:
Matt Granger recently tested buffer sizes on the Z9 and used an Atomos to show what he was doing. It later turned out that the results were much worse compared to what he observed without the Atomos. That said, buffer size isn't AF speed and so far no one seems to know for sure whether AF is also affected by using an Atomos.
Thanks for the info Daran.
I took a look at the video. I like the Matt admitted he made an error. And owned up to it.
I kind of blame Nikon too though. Seems like the marketing department wanted something to brag about with the firmware release. This maximum buffer depth requires very specific settings. Settings that most people wouldn’t use in normal shooting. I’m glad it’s all true. But seems kinda of an odd thing to brag about. It’s not like Nikon needs to boost sales or anything! 😉
As far as the Atomos affecting AF performance. Looks like Matt was just thinking out loud that perhaps that his other videos may have been affected by using the Atomos. I’d be interested to see him test that. But at this point, pretty speculative.
And yet, I’ve seen this repeated by quite a few people as fact. I’m not talking about you. You made it clear that the Atomos “might” affect AF performance. But I’ve seen more than one person say it’s why the Nikon struggled in certain segments of Jared Polin’s video.
I shouldn’t be surprised though. It’s the internet! 😀
Anyways, I appreciate the information.
Jan 15, 2022 at 10:43 AM
duncang Offline • • • [X]
p.23 #20 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
Maxxus46 wrote:
Heavy and large camera for sure...but I guess some DSLR diehards want that. I do not, owned a Canon 1dx Mkii at one point and hated the size and weight . Also it's funny how some assume because it's bigger it must be tougher... But thats actually opposite in the engineering world. Large areas within a magnesium frame are open to more flex and vibration unless structural reinforcement points are added, which adds more weight. Also not uncommon for a large DSLR to get dropped on the ground from waste level and stop functioning all together (heavier it is the harder the impact!). So completely false Narratives. I know the A1 feels very well made, robust even and will stand up to any full sized DSLR in durability yet is very compact in comparison. ...Show more →
BTW this (heavier it is the harder the impact!) is not true. Did I correct you on this already ?
The impact (aka deceleration) is only dependent on the velocity and distance to decelerate.
And an A1 and a Z9 will have the same velocity if dropped from the same height since both are subject to the same acceleration as wind resistance will be negligible over the typical dropped height (assume held by a human) and they will have as near as damnit the same deceleration on impact with the ground.
Perhaps the Z9 has a crumple zone built in though.
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