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Archive 2021 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"

  
 
ChrisMak
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p.11 #1 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"


speedmaster20d wrote:
pretty nice side by side.

You can make the Sony almost as big as Nikon, but you can't make the Nikon as small as Sony


That is why I really regret that Nikon, who has been mimicking Sony in their mirrorless strategy with things like their long lens roadmap and their unfortunate neglect of crop (DX), has not copied Sony in making the Z9 a truly allround body, by offering an optional battery grip.
They could have gotten the ergonomics and durability right, only would have had to ease down on 8K video duration (but who cares about 2hrs of 8K video at all).
As it is, the Z9 now is a specialist pro tool for limited shooting scenarios, and Sony reigns supreme as the only brand offering a truly universal camera body for all shooting scenarios.
That is how I see it as someone who shoots with both brands.



Nov 10, 2021 at 04:35 AM
wind30
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p.11 #2 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"


… I used to use Nikon dslr. I am glad Nikon released z9 because I am pretty sure they will release a z8 in a years time which will be smaller and much more affordable.

I just want a fast e-shutter camera. I have the a9 but it will be nice to get a newer camera with the latest advances. Will Sony release a baby a1 that is cheaper? They might now Nikon has z9



Nov 10, 2021 at 06:56 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.11 #3 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"


shadow9d9 wrote:
Those lenses do not have a native solution in Z. They have adapted. Can they not be adapted to the Sony too if desperate for those specific lenses?

I am sorry your friends can't afford some gear. I don't see how that is relevant though. You could just stick with dslrs altogether if price consciousness is important to you or your friends. Best bet for someone price sensitive is to just stick to a used d850 and used lenses.

Luckily, Sony DOES have over 115 native autofocus lenses and countless manual ones, of all focal lengths from 9mm to 600, of
...Show more

You are pretending that all camera lens combinations that use an adapter have the same performance. The clearly do not. Nikon F mount lenses adapted to Nikon Z mount cameras (at least the Z9) with a Nikon adapter perform at least as well as they perform on a Nikon F mount cameras. The limits of AF, for example, have nothing to do with the adaptation and are simply the limits of the lens. Nikon F mount lenses can be used to their full potential on the Z9. Nikon F mount lenses work very poorly on Sony with any of the available adapters. They often won't AF at all and frequently lock up the camera. For you to equate the performance of these lenses on the two systems is ridiculous

And although Sony has 115 autofocus lenses for E mount, they have only 2 primes longer than 135mm and both cost over $12,000. Not much choice there at all. Either pay a huge amount or go without long primes. To make it worse they only have two zooms that reach beyond 300mm and both have very slow apertures. Again not much choice. You might think third parties would step in, but they haven't in either long primes or long faster (i.e., at least f/4) zooms. Nikon will have a huge advantage here both because of their F mount lenses that work to their full capability on the Z9 and because they are building new PF lenses for their Z mount.



Nov 10, 2021 at 06:58 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.11 #4 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"


speedmaster20d wrote:
pretty nice side by side.

You can make the Sony almost as big as Nikon, but you can't make the Nikon as small as Sony


This is true, but Nikon could (and likely will) make a smaller version of the Z9 that has the same sensor and most of its capability in a smaller body. In that case you can buy the big Nikon or the small Nikon and still have great performance. And if you like the add on grip, I am sure Nikon will sell you one at that point. Personally, I am not interested in the Z9 because of its size, but I might well be interested in a smaller version of the camera, and if it comes in at $2,000 less than the Sony A1, I think Sony is going to have a hard time competing at its present price point, even if it has higher specs. Sony best be working on a competitor (perhaps the A9 III) for that camera. This is exactly why competition is good for us all. Sony is not sitting alone at the top any more without competition and that is a good thing. They need to get there ass in gear in both making a less expensive stacked sensor camera that competes with the coming Nikon (and likely Canon) and they really need to build both lower priced long primes (preferably including PF/DO lenses) and they need to build some faster moderate priced long zooms. Sony doesn't want to be the company that builds the slightly better but much more expensive gear and if they don't change course that is what they are going to be.



Nov 10, 2021 at 07:09 AM
saaketham
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p.11 #5 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"


Chris seems awfully mad at Nikon for the integrated grip Have seen many posts from him complaining about that on the Nikon forum. So since A1 is the king, what prevents you from selling your Nikon gear and switching to Sony? We all agree that a1 is the current topper in nearly all categories.

ChrisMak wrote:
That is why I really regret that Nikon, who has been mimicking Sony in their mirrorless strategy with things like their long lens roadmap and their unfortunate neglect of crop (DX), has not copied Sony in making the Z9 a truly allround body, by offering an optional battery grip.
They could have gotten the ergonomics and durability right, only would have had to ease down on 8K video duration (but who cares about 2hrs of 8K video at all).
As it is, the Z9 now is a specialist pro tool for limited shooting scenarios, and Sony reigns supreme as the only brand
...Show more



Nov 10, 2021 at 07:22 AM
ChrisMak
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p.11 #6 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"


saaketham wrote:
Chris seems awfully mad at Nikon for the integrated grip Have seen many posts from him complaining about that on the Nikon forum. So since A1 is the king, what prevents you from selling your Nikon gear and switching to Sony? We all agree that a1 is the current topper in nearly all categories.



Sorry if it comes across like that, awfully mad...
I am not, I am more than fine with the D500 for the years to come.
But that does not take away from the fact that yes, I really do regret Nikon's approach to perhaps the only interesting and capable action body in the Z system for quite a long time to come. And it isn't the integrated grip as such, it is the over specced video and battery life needed for it, and the hefty weight and size that has resulted in. I could have lived with Canon R3 weight, and jϊst that bit less supersize.
And setting my own regrets aside, I think it would have been better for Nikon users if Nikon had first made a more general, universal flagship camera given the situation where Z cameras now are.
I don't believe for one second in the "trickle down" effect of the Z9 on a short term basis.
The Z9 launch has made me for one, aware that I don't want to be swept away by the vibes and join the rush into using a D6 type of camera, that as a dslr user I would not ever have considered for one moment.

Given the enormous amount of pre orders, I think Nikon has hit a home run.
Does it make Nikon more attractive to me? No, I will use what Nikon gear I have and steer towards changing to the Sony A1 probably.
To me, D6 like bodies are extra terrestrial really. And let's be honest, Sony simply deserves some praise for their ingenious A1. As soon as I were to switch to the A1 for birding and wildlife, I could seamlessly use my Loxia 25 and 35mm f1.4GM on it!



Nov 10, 2021 at 07:41 AM
saaketham
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p.11 #7 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"


Right .. no one is disputing how good the a1 is
I've seen your frustrated posts after the z9 launch, and was wondering why you can't just switch to Sony. Sony (and Canon) have smaller bodies with excellent AF that you don't have to wait for months to get. And both have awesome lenses.



Nov 10, 2021 at 08:01 AM
1bwana1
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p.11 #8 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"




Steve Spencer wrote:
They need to get there ass in gear in both making a less expensive stacked sensor camera that competes with the coming Nikon (and likely Canon) and they really need to build both lower priced long primes (preferably including PF/DO lenses) and they need to build some faster moderate priced long zooms. Sony doesn't want to be the company that builds the slightly better but much more expensive gear and if they don't change course that is what they are going to be.



Sony please do this. I want a PF please.



Nov 10, 2021 at 08:11 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.11 #9 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"


ChrisMak wrote:
Sorry if it comes across like that, awfully mad...
I am not, I am more than fine with the D500 for the years to come.
But that does not take away from the fact that yes, I really do regret Nikon's approach to perhaps the only interesting and capable action body in the Z system for quite a long time to come. And it isn't the integrated grip as such, it is the over specced video and battery life needed for it, and the hefty weight and size that has resulted in. I could have lived with Canon R3 weight,
...Show more

Chris, as you might have noticed you and I often have similar but slightly different takes for our own needs. Personally, I going to, as much as it pains me, likely get the Sony 200-600 to pair with my A9. It isn't the system that I really want, but it will hold me over until mid 2023 when I think decisions will become more clear. I will likely stay with Sony if they build a 400mm or 500mm prime that is slower and more moderately priced and hopefully PF or DO, but Sony also needs to be competitive on price with the camera. Sony has won some of my affection recently for coming out with what looks to be a very nice revision of their 70-200 f/2.8 GM. If I can't get a used A1 for around $4,000 or perhaps an A9 III with more megapixels for that cost then I won't be interested.

Nikon already has lenses I am interested in especially the Nikon 500 f/5.6 PF. They also put a 400 PF on their roadmap and it should be developed or at least announced by then. I might also get an F-mount 200-400 f/4, which you can pick up used for under $2,000. Nikon, however, still needs to build a camera I want. The Z9 shows me they can do it, but will they do it and if they do when? I would like a camera with the Z9 sensor, but it can have some limitations. A smaller buffer is fine with me. One of the cards can be SD. It can have quite a bit less video capability. It doesn't need the LCD that flips both ways. For me it doesn't need as many customizable buttons, but it does need to be $4,500 or less. I would think if they can make the Z9 for $5,500 then by then they ought to be able to make such a camera for $4,500. If they don't make that camera, then I won't be considering Nikon at that point and probably won't consider them again.

Canon has a lot of lenses that I like too. I could live with the 400 f/4 DO II, as my main long lens and they may build others. I would want a lower prices 40ish at least MP camera with a stacked sensor and very fast sensor scan speed and so far Canon hasn't done that yet. If they do and the price is in my $4,000ish range, then I will definitely consider them too.

I think it is good to have all three companies in the game, and Chris if you are going to be waiting anyway I would keep an open mind (I actually know you will) and the best choice when you really do decide to jump may not be what you expect. It might be Nikon or even Canon.



Nov 10, 2021 at 08:18 AM
ChrisMak
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p.11 #10 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"


saaketham wrote:
Right .. no one is disputing how good the a1 is
I've seen your frustrated posts after the z9 launch, and was wondering why you can't just switch to Sony. Sony (and Canon) have smaller bodies with excellent AF that you don't have to wait for months to get. And both have awesome lenses.


Frustrated, interesting...
enjoy your Z9...!

Edited on Nov 10, 2021 at 08:37 AM · View previous versions



Nov 10, 2021 at 08:31 AM
naturephoto1
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p.11 #11 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"


Steve Spencer wrote:
Chris, as you might have noticed you and I often have similar but slightly different takes for our own needs. Personally, I going to, as much as it pains me, likely get the Sony 200-600 to pair with my A9. It isn't the system that I really want, but it will hold me over until mid 2023 when I think decisions will become more clear. I will likely stay with Sony if they build a 400mm or 500mm prime that is slower and more moderately priced and hopefully PF or DO, but Sony also needs to be competitive on
...Show more

Hi Steve,

I take delivery of an A1 today (for a small/modest discount) to use particularly with my 200-600mm G and 100-400mm GM lenses alone and/or with the Sony 1.4X and 2X Extenders. But, the camera is no more expensive than a Leica M10R, the soon to be released Leica M11, or the Leica SL2. The purchase comes after 6 grueling months of selling my Leica R 280mm f4 Apo-Telyt (at a considerable beating) and Leica 1.4X Apo extender which are now on their way to Toronto, Canada. To pay the remainder of the cost of the camera there have also been the sale of many Leica R lenses and a slew more that are still currently for sale on the FM boards.

Rich




Nov 10, 2021 at 08:34 AM
EdwardDye
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p.11 #12 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"


The things you mentioned are things we should be doing regardless of what camera we use...

Yes, I don't shoot super fast and tiny moving birds at 30fps, but I do shoot in some really really dark churches, and I don't just shoot weddings, I also shoot some very fast moving performing arts stuff, I feel those are just as hard as sports given how fast moving they are and the lighting condition. Honestly I got the 2 A1s more for that than for weddings.


Holger wrote:
I think for some use cases it is better to care about other things giving you more "value", like more interesting images, compositions, use of light etc.
Even if Z9 AF would be better, after having tested that as scientifically as possibly, I bet it wouldn't make a big impact on a typical wedding, where A1 AF _is_ usually overkill. We don't shoot super fast and tiny moving birds at 30fps.
It is your money of course, however, from my point of view switching is just loosing money and silly at this point giving the quality the A1 offers.





Nov 10, 2021 at 08:53 AM
ChrisMak
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p.11 #13 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"


Steve Spencer wrote:
Chris, as you might have noticed you and I often have similar but slightly different takes for our own needs. Personally, I going to, as much as it pains me, likely get the Sony 200-600 to pair with my A9. It isn't the system that I really want, but it will hold me over until mid 2023 when I think decisions will become more clear. I will likely stay with Sony if they build a 400mm or 500mm prime that is slower and more moderately priced and hopefully PF or DO, but Sony also needs to be competitive on
...Show more

I think it is "either...or"
I don't think a new Nikon flagship-like camera will be developed which is more in style with the Sony A1. There is no room for several concepts of flagship cameras in todays market.
i don't need nor crave for a flagship camera, but for a proper action camera, so with the situation in todays mirrorless market, you are quickly pressed to move up to a flagship model if you want to shoot action. Perhaps in five years or so, things will have evened out.
so it is not a strange idea to start with a body of choice and then get by with the lenses.
i am in no hurry, but of course I will be considering in time if Sony is an option. The demise of crop in the transition to mirrorless has further complicated things.



Nov 10, 2021 at 08:58 AM
LBJ2
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p.11 #14 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"


Steve Spencer wrote:
Chris, as you might have noticed you and I often have similar but slightly different takes for our own needs. Personally, I going to, as much as it pains me, likely get the Sony 200-600 to pair with my A9. It isn't the system that I really want, but it will hold me over until mid 2023 when I think decisions will become more clear. I will likely stay with Sony if they build a 400mm or 500mm prime that is slower and more moderately priced and hopefully PF or DO, but Sony also needs to be competitive on
...Show more

I'm glad to hear you are giving the G 200-600 a go. Something I recommended some time ago. I know its not what you want in a 400PF but as you will see it's a very manageable size and weight albeit not the 400PF F4 light (Topaz DeNoise to the rescue if needed)--but also zoom IMO is an excellent tool for wildlife.

I initially used the G 200-600 with the A9 so I know it's a great combo and IMO this lens delivers IQ above its price level. The A1 just takes this kit up a few more notches! The GM 100-400 is also another one of those that fit stellar category for my purposes and easy/lightweight to slip in the bag. I keep and use both lenses.



Nov 10, 2021 at 09:30 AM
LBJ2
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p.11 #15 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"


ChrisMak wrote:
Sorry if it comes across like that, awfully mad...
I am not, I am more than fine with the D500 for the years to come.
But that does not take away from the fact that yes, I really do regret Nikon's approach to perhaps the only interesting and capable action body in the Z system for quite a long time to come. And it isn't the integrated grip as such, it is the over specced video and battery life needed for it, and the hefty weight and size that has resulted in. I could have lived with Canon R3 weight,
...Show more

"...The Nikon Z9 is the most DSLR-like mirrorless we've ever seen"
https://www.dpreview.com/articles/4210565040/shooting-experience-the-nikon-z9-is-the-most-dslr-like-mirrorless-we-ve-ever-seen

And for this reason, I think the Z9 will finally push a very large quantity of perfectly happy as is Nikon DSLR holdouts to finally spend some much needed cash for new Nikon products. This IMO is a very strategic design decision by Nikon for its particular circumstance.



Nov 10, 2021 at 09:36 AM
naturephoto1
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p.11 #16 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"


LBJ2 wrote:
"...The Nikon Z9 is the most DSLR-like mirrorless we've ever seen"
https://www.dpreview.com/articles/4210565040/shooting-experience-the-nikon-z9-is-the-most-dslr-like-mirrorless-we-ve-ever-seen

And for this reason, I think the Z9 will finally push a very large quantity of perfectly happy as is Nikon DSLR holdouts to finally spend some much needed cash for new Nikon products. This IMO is a very strategic design decision by Nikon for its particular circumstance.


My gut feeling is that ultimately (and even though the A1 will have been out for 5 or 6 months and cost $1,000 more than than the Z9), more A1 camera bodies will sell than Z9 bodies.

I think that it would be appropriate to have a poll as to how many will be purchasing a Z9 and include in the poll how many have or will be purchasing an A1.

Rich




Nov 10, 2021 at 09:43 AM
Atlasman2
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p.11 #17 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"


A1 for me, but hoping for an A9III.


Nov 10, 2021 at 09:54 AM
LBJ2
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p.11 #18 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"


naturephoto1 wrote:
My gut feeling is that ultimately (and even though the A1 will have been out for 5 or 6 months and cost $1,000 more than than the Z9), more A1 camera bodies will sell than Z9 bodies.

I think that it would be appropriate to have a poll as to how many will be purchasing a Z9 and include in the poll how many have or will be purchasing an A1.

Rich


Unfortunately, we just don't have current and reliable numbers that I know of. I think the rumored Z9 preorders are the first time I've actually heard preorder or sales numbers for any camera in recent years.

General comments posted by Sony representatives despite the shock price tag on the Sony community, the A1 has outpaced previous Sony camera preorders. Same with Canon's sales figures claiming the R5/R6 turned their camera division sales around dramatically.

But also, to be clear about my last comment, it is about what Nikon needs, not what Sony or Canon needs. I am of the "uninformed" opinion the size and price of the Z9 ( price in North America at least) is very strategic. Actual results as the Z9 actually rolls out might or might not prove otherwise.

The Nikon camera division still has a lot of work to do, but if the Z9 is being preordered at the levels rumored, cash flowing at these rumored levels is certainly the way to move forward.

"Why the Nikon Z 9 Is a Crucial Camera for the Company"-Mike Smith
https://fstoppers.com/gear/why-nikon-z-9-crucial-camera-company-585446

Edited on Nov 10, 2021 at 10:35 AM · View previous versions



Nov 10, 2021 at 10:30 AM
saaketham
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p.11 #19 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"


ChrisMak wrote:
Frustrated, interesting...enjoy your Z9...!


Sorry Chris. I didn't mean it in any bad way. In the past, when we chatted about the Sigma 500, I mentioned to you that it worked even better with my z6ii (no AF tuning specifically). At the time, you'd told me that you were hoping to move to a Nikon mirrorless at some point, and use the Sigma 500. But since the z9 is not something you're interested in, and Nikon's move to release a D5/D6 style body frustrated you (what I learned from some of your posts) + you mentioned a few days ago about mount conversion to Canon, and then using an adapter to use the Sig 500 on a Sony, I assumed that's what you decided. I was genuinely curious about why you didn't already switch to Canon or Sony, since they already have good bodies. With the chip supply shortage and Nikon moving production to Thailand, it may be many months before a z8 will come out. Sad, and I wish it weren't so, but that's what current conditions seem to indicate.

Again, no offense meant in any form or fashion. I too shoot Nikon and Sony and love both systems for different reasons.



Nov 10, 2021 at 10:35 AM
osv2
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p.11 #20 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"


timgangloff wrote:
Weight distribution is irrelevant if Sony doesn't offer a 300 2.8, a 120-300 2.8 or a 500f4.


nikon doesn't have any of those lenses in the z-mount roadmap, but canon is rumored to have an rf-mount 500/4 coming at some unknown date.

even if it was in their roadmaps canikon doesn't have linear voice coil af technology, and nikon has been putting slow stepper motors in many of the z-mount lenses... nikon really isn't positioning itself as a sports-shooting platform, but they are finally making a 600mm superzoom with af, for the first time in nikon history.

the dslr versions of those sports lenses could barely keep up with 10-12fps af-c, but at least they should have eyeaf and face detection on milc, so that will be an improvement... if you already own the glass a z9/r3 would be worth it, e-mount owners will have to use the adapted sigma versions at 15fps.

timgangloff wrote:
And probably even more important than weight distribution is price. It doesn't matter if a newer tech Sony lens has better balance if 90%of the sports shooters I know can't afford the 400 2.8.


sports shooters can't afford new glass because sports shooting itself is d.o.a., that's why you won't be seeing milc versions of those lenses from the big 3:

https://www.shutterbug.com/content/what-killed-editorial-sports-photography-you%E2%80%99ve-really-got-hustle-make-living-sports-shooter

we shouldn't expect camera companies to make expensive glass for tiny markets, the r.o.i. just isn't there for it.




Nov 10, 2021 at 10:38 AM
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