p.4 #1 · Z9 a near failure, according to Ken Wheeler
M. Currie wrote:
To be fair (since there is so little to be fair about here) he did also like the D7100, which he once declared the best Nikon ever. I do like mine, and I certainly think it's a good machine, though in my wife's D7200 output I have not noticed the glaring and egregious deficiencies he attributed to it. When my D7100 eventually wears out or breaks, I might just get a D7200, and bask in its tiny but real advances.
Like many here I stopped watching him as he got less and less relevant and rational, and more potty-mouthed.
The D7200 sensor is better since it does not have that weird banding that the D7100 has in dark areas. The buffer and throughput are also substantially improved.
p.4 #2 · Z9 a near failure, according to Ken Wheeler
Sauseschritt wrote:
- No shutter. Which obviously is good for longevity -- but Wheeler argues this is bad for flash photography. I'm not sure that a sensor without shutter is bad for flash photography per se. If the sensor is initialized and read by line by line and is read in whole within 1/250 sec, it should really be exactly as good (or bad) as with a regular mechanical focal plane shutter, unless I'm missing something. Not sure what the camera actually can manage though. If the camera cannot manage 1/250 sec readout time then this is indeed a serious issue leading to unbelievably poor flash photography performance, which would be completely intolerable for even much cheaper cameras. ...Show more →
My main concern about the lack of a shutter is how quickly debris will build on the sensor when lenses are changed in the field.
p.4 #3 · Z9 a near failure, according to Ken Wheeler
EB-1 wrote:
My main concern about the lack of a shutter is how quickly debris will build on the sensor when lenses are changed in the field.
EBH
Well, Nikon Z9 has a protective shutter so sensor is covered when you remove a lens. Also there is a dust repellent layer on top of the sensor, fluorine coating and some kind of charged/electrostatic layer. Ricci explained about it a bit in his video.
Of all the mirrorless camera, Z9 should gives you the least worry as far as dust is concerned.
If I am not mistaken, only R5/R6 will close its shutter when you remove the lens (may be A1 as well but I am not sure).
Other mirrorless bodies as far as I know don't have any protection at all.
p.4 #5 · Z9 a near failure, according to Ken Wheeler
Also, according to (IIRC) Jared Polin's initial video the Z9's protective shutter comes down and goes up way faster than if you enable shutter covering on Canon/Sony - I think he said you'd have to wait at least a couple seconds for the Canon and Sony shutters to come down, versus almost instant for the Nikon. I've not used any of those cameras though so someone with experience might want to confirm that. Would make a difference in the field, where you need to switch lenses ASAP to get the shot sometimes.
p.4 #6 · Z9 a near failure, according to Ken Wheeler
The Nikon shutter system looks good. However, you don't just wait for the Canon to shut down. You grab the other lens or some other motion that you would be doing anyway.
p.4 #7 · Z9 a near failure, according to Ken Wheeler
suteetat wrote:
Well, Nikon Z9 has a protective shutter so sensor is covered when you remove a lens. Also there is a dust repellent layer on top of the sensor, fluorine coating and some kind of charged/electrostatic layer. Ricci explained about it a bit in his video.
Of all the mirrorless camera, Z9 should gives you the least worry as far as dust is concerned.
If I am not mistaken, only R5/R6 will close its shutter when you remove the lens (may be A1 as well but I am not sure).
Other mirrorless bodies as far as I know don't have any protection at all.
Yes, a1 has the option to have the shutter close to protect the sensor when you turn off the camera. Works great, never hd a speck of dust on my sensor since I bought the camera. I change lenses a lot when out shooting.
p.4 #8 · Z9 a near failure, according to Ken Wheeler
1bwana1 wrote:
Yes, a1 has the option to have the shutter close to protect the sensor when you turn off the camera. Works great, never hd a speck of dust on my sensor since I bought the camera. I change lenses a lot when out shooting.
I have always found the idea to use a very fragile shutter located only a few mm behind the mount to protect the sensor very surprising. Does that not worry you?
p.4 #9 · Z9 a near failure, according to Ken Wheeler
Eric214 wrote:
This is what we needed. I guess we can take the Lossless Compressed as the old uncompressed and the High Efficiency* as the old lossless compressed. That would make the easiest for most people to understand.
I think I will end up using the new Lossless Compressed for frame filling slower moving subjects and the HE* will be for BIF and fast action. That would make the most sense to me
I'm looking forward to Ricci's promised Lossless vs HE* vs HE comparison. For my uses, Lossless is the only choice, but 80 shots is more than sufficient buffer depth (I'd be doing Median stacks, not action photography)
p.4 #11 · Z9 a near failure, according to Ken Wheeler
bernardl wrote:
I have always found the idea to use a very fragile shutter located only a few mm behind the mount to protect the sensor very surprising. Does that not worry you?
Cheers,
Bernard
Yes, I think it is intuitively obvious that a non imaging shutter can be built more robustly, and therefore be a better sensor protection mechanism.
I'm not yet sure how to view the whole no shutter issue with the Z9. Below is a post I made to a discussion on the topic in another thread.
With the Z9 you have "no mechanical shutter" it can only be shot in e-shutter. There is a shutter designed to protect the sensor however. I presume since that shutter will never have to open and close at 1/8000 sec it can be built a little heavy and more durable. That is a real plus when in sensor protection mode.
The a1 I view as "mechanical shutter optional". It is shot nearly 100% of the time in e-shutter. However for some use cases the mechanical shutter is a plus, like when you want 400 or 500 sync speeds. You do have the option for that. However, since the mechanical shutter must be light and fast enough to shoot at 1/8000 sec, it must be built lighter and less durable. It is at more risk of damage when in shutter protection mode.
A functional shutter is surely many times more expensive to build. We pay for that when we buy the a1. Z9 buyers don't have to pay for one.
I think time will tell which is the best way to go with this.
p.4 #13 · Z9 a near failure, according to Ken Wheeler
Don't forget the A9II (via FW) and A7IV...both have the option to close shutter on power off to protect the sensor. So I think it is Z9, R5, R6, R3, A9II, A1, A7IV.
I do agree though, it is questionable whether one wants to risk inadvertent damage to the shutter vs getting dust on the sensor (and any risk to the sensor if you need to wet clean it).
Now the Z9 makes that an easy choice as you won't be damaging your shutter. Rumors from many months ago had the A9III going shutterless so if that does happen will be interesting to see if they add a shutter like the Z9 just to protect the sensor.
p.4 #14 · Z9 a near failure, according to Ken Wheeler
I’m shattered, why did I order one? Why? Why?
Nov 01, 2021 at 12:51 PM
AmbientMike Offline • • • • • • [X]
p.4 #15 · Z9 a near failure, according to Ken Wheeler
The conservative talking head shtick bugs me, and then his friend said something. Who's his friend? Is his friend knowledgeable? Does his friend even exist? Did he make it up? I have no idea
Nov 01, 2021 at 08:11 PM
brian_sp Offline • • • • [X]
p.4 #16 · Z9 a near failure, according to Ken Wheeler
p.4 #18 · Z9 a near failure, according to Ken Wheeler
bs kite wrote:
Is there more concern about dust on a mirrorless camera sensor vs a DSLR sensor?
Yes, the sensor in mirrorless cameras is closer to the front of the camera body. Mirrorless cameras also lack the mirror that protects the sensor in DSLR cameras. Mirrorless cameras are notorious for attracting sensor dust.
p.4 #19 · Z9 a near failure, according to Ken Wheeler
1bwana1 wrote:
Yes, the sensor in mirrorless cameras is closer to the front of the camera body. Mirrorless cameras also lack the mirror that protects the sensor in DSLR cameras. Mirrorless cameras are notorious for attracting sensor dust.
Closer to the opening....... Notorious. That’s not good. Thank you
