Pixel Perfect wrote:
Ok yes Chris's video review on dpr indicates it's still woeful at ~ 1/15, I was assuming 7IV would also offer a 1/30s rate for 12 bit capture and for video surely they would do that since it's 10 bit at best.
Really bummed they could not improve sensor scan speed for what was already terrible. So ES for action is still utterly useless. My idea this could be a good back-up for say A1 is now gone. Can't stand mechanical shutters now after 3 years with the A9.
It is painful for sure. I moved away from the A9 because I do 70% video and a non stacked sensor is lame. I wish the siii or A1 would have the A7iv’s controls, I do feel that’s a game changer. 3 modes for stills, three for video, hog heaven.
Pixel Perfect wrote:
Ok yes Chris's video review on dpr indicates it's still woeful at ~ 1/15, I was assuming 7IV would also offer a 1/30s rate for 12 bit capture and for video surely they would do that since it's 10 bit at best.
Really bummed they could not improve sensor scan speed for what was already terrible. So ES for action is still utterly useless. My idea this could be a good back-up for say A1 is now gone. Can't stand mechanical shutters now after 3 years with the A9.
I think if you were using the A9ii or A1, you wouldn't be that harsh. Especially the A1 mechanical shutter is fantastic and so damped and quiet, it feels like a E-shutter to me. NO comparison to what an A9 offers, here. If the shutter is anywhere close to those shutters, I wouldn't mind _at all_.
If it were 1/50, that wouldn't help for action, too. I would only trust a stacked sensor for that. So why then the whining? I would use a good mechanical shutter over a 1/50s scan speed E-shutter all day. It was pretty clear an A7iv wouldn't introduce a stacked sensor. For this we need to wait for the A9iii, in my opinion.
Leonberger wrote:
I don’t understand any of the hate this camera is getting.
I’ve been shooting weddings for years and my main camera has been the A9. I always rented an A7iii to use as my second body as I duel wield with them. The A7iii has taken amazing photos for me with autofocus that has never let me down. One gripe I had with both cameras was that the auto white balance and skin tones out of both cameras were always a chore to fix and that the A9 had no video profiles like SLog. Cue the A7IV.
My A9 is now being put up for sale because I got my A7IV pre order in. This camera is going to be an absolute beast for wedding photography. Let’s not forget that one of the reviewers said she liked the skin tones out of this camera more than her Canon R6! How many times have posts been made on this forum where people want the Canon look and now we have a body that will deliver it.
I am just now dabbling in video starting with videos of my family but people are out there shooting amazing wedding video professionally with an R6 and that apparently has a small crop factor in 4K60 and also pretty bad rolling shutter so I don’t truly get the heat this camera is getting. Your getting better skin tones, beefier sensor, even better auto focus from the A7iii which already managed weddings amazingly, more up to date video options, QoL improvements on the body design and correct me if I’m wrong but a new hot shoe for smarter components like the new Sony flashes.
Bring. It. On....Show more →
Agree, used a73 for weddings, too. Many here never shot under pressure and never needed a camera to deliver. It looks more like a spec comparison fight for many here, thinking the price required a stand-out feature.
Don't understand this. I, too, think to replace the A9 with it, as I dislike the mechanical shutter there esp. with flash use, which is always mandatory in the evening. Compared to our A1 and A9ii the A9 really falls behind here. Additionally, the IQ is a step behind them, too, in terms of DR, which we always recognise when lifting shadows. A DR boost at low isos compared to the A9, faster operation (power on, power on from sleep, buffer etc), better EVF, mech shutter, A1 focus modes, newer body design, more MP, looks really good. The overall package is good enough for me, but of course I will wait until the dust settles and long term experience shows strengths and weaknesses. Wouldn't need it this year anyway.
Holger wrote:
It was pretty clear an A7iv wouldn't introduce a stacked sensor. For this we need to wait for the A9iii, in my opinion.
A lot of people, including myself, had that hope. The sensor technology is available I would think, and maybe even at the price point of the A7IV ($2499 or €2799). I feel like Sony would have made a big splash if they had, and they would really have put Nikon and Canon on the back foot. If only they had focused a bit more on the sensor and less on the video capabilities to make YouTubers happy.
It just really seems like the A7IV was put out there for people that either want to upgrade their A7RII/A7III, jump from a different brand or get into photographer. But is that something you do at this price-point? The reviewers online mostly already have an A1 and for them it's not really something they care about. That's the impression I'm getting at least; few reviewers actually take the consumers perspective here. If Sony wants a prosumer to spend a month's salary on their 'basic' model, it should convince immediately and not leave any doubts that it's the best option for your money.
zz wrote:
A lot of people, including myself, had that hope. The sensor technology is available I would think, and maybe even at the price point of the A7IV ($2499 or €2799). I feel like Sony would have made a big splash if they had, and they would really have put Nikon and Canon on the back foot. If only they had focused a bit more on the sensor and less on the video capabilities to make YouTubers happy.
It just really seems like the A7IV was put out there for people that either want to upgrade their A7RII/A7III, jump from a different brand or get into photographer. But is that something you do at this price-point? The reviewers online mostly already have an A1 and for them it's not really something they care about. That's the impression I'm getting at least; few reviewers actually take the consumers perspective here. If Sony wants a prosumer to spend a month's salary on their 'basic' model, it should convince immediately and not leave any doubts that it's the best option for your money....Show more →
Yep, completely agree especially with...
If only they had focused a bit more on the sensor and less on the video capabilities to make YouTubers happy.
They have the a7siii for video and zv-e10, it would have been nice to see them really push the photography side of things for a change but I guess they move to where their market/profit is...
I disagree with the upgrade path from the a7r2 though, that is not an obvious decision, Im interested in why you think it is? As an a7r2 owner, Im not conviced yet..
wastedimages wrote:
I disagree with the upgrade path from the a7r2 though, that is not an obvious decision, Im interested in why you think it is? As an a7r2 owner, Im not conviced yet..
In terms of readout speed, AF performance, real time tracking and general capability this does present an upgrade over the A7R2. That certainly doesn't mean you have to upgrade. If I had the A7R2 I might not feel the need to upgrade either. As always, if you are satisfied with what you have you shouldn't spend money on something new!
Whelp, not sure I'll get this cam but I was actually pretty happy about the full announcement. As someone who mostly does stills, the increased low light AF, lossless compression, α1 AF algorithms, and better sealing are all big QOL increases. I'm a bit confused though... during the announcement I thought I heard the announcer say that the α7 iv could use bird eye AF at up to f22—shouldn't that be more than a single -EV rating with regards to low light AF?
The minor IQ bumps will be welcome but unnoticeable in most situations. Wondering if we're going to see more computational in camera adjustments like maybe bokeh smoothing seeing as Sony has apparently already mapped out their planes of focus with the new focus assist tool and electronic breathing comp is a thing.
Gotta say, the only thing I'm disappointed with is a lack of a tilt screen and the jettisoning of the c1 button :P . Just the way the market's headed I suppose.
Very curious about the α7 C II + how the new focus assist will develop. Honestly, I think this is a big step in the right direction, but those colors will definitely block some compositional aspects of your frame and I'm not sure how accurate that raster representation of focus is going to be. Be very curious to see if the raster block representation can be adjusted for granularity, or if the processing power simply isn't there yet.
zz wrote:
A lot of people, including myself, had that hope. The sensor technology is available I would think, and maybe even at the price point of the A7IV ($2499 or €2799). I feel like Sony would have made a big splash if they had, and they would really have put Nikon and Canon on the back foot. If only they had focused a bit more on the sensor and less on the video capabilities to make YouTubers happy.
It just really seems like the A7IV was put out there for people that either want to upgrade their A7RII/A7III, jump from a different brand or get into photographer. But is that something you do at this price-point? The reviewers online mostly already have an A1 and for them it's not really something they care about. That's the impression I'm getting at least; few reviewers actually take the consumers perspective here. If Sony wants a prosumer to spend a month's salary on their 'basic' model, it should convince immediately and not leave any doubts that it's the best option for your money....Show more →
Is it the basic model?
What about the 7C?
Thom Hogan had a take on sensor prices some time ago and stacked sensor were quite a bit more expensive then BSI sensors. I think most here underestimate the price differential.
If you are just getting in photography, a FF model like this certainly isn't for you, in my opinion. If you want to get serious, it is an option and at that gives you a camera you can use for almost everything, a true jack of all trades. This doesn't come for free, unfortunately.
I think people expect too much. _Almost_ A1 performance, but for 2000$. This will never happen.
I'm so disappointed with this release, not a single feature that is as impressive as the 73 was, I was expecting the 74 to be less pioneering than the 73, but not this lame.
Sony obviously protecting the more expensive products, sad to see.
Used A9 prices safe for now.
At least no one at Sony murdered their DoP on set.
wastedimages wrote:
Yep, completely agree especially with...
If only they had focused a bit more on the sensor and less on the video capabilities to make YouTubers happy.
They have the a7siii for video and zv-e10, it would have been nice to see them really push the photography side of things for a change but I guess they move to where their market/profit is...
I disagree with the upgrade path from the a7r2 though, that is not an obvious decision, Im interested in why you think it is? As an a7r2 owner, Im not conviced yet..
"I disagree with the upgrade path from the a7r2 though, that is not an obvious decision, Im interested in why you think it is? As an a7r2 owner, Im not conviced yet.."
If all you do is take landscape images on a tripod, stick with the A7r2. Otherwise, if you can't see the upgrade to the A7r2, you didn't max out the capabilities of that camera anyway and you won't max out the capabilities of the A7iv either.
For me, the upgrade would be a really big one compared to the A7r2 (I used that camera in the past, so know quite well how far Sony progressed until now!).
Holger wrote:
I think if you were using the A9ii or A1, you wouldn't be that harsh. Especially the A1 mechanical shutter is fantastic and so damped and quiet, it feels like a E-shutter to me. NO comparison to what an A9 offers, here. If the shutter is anywhere close to those shutters, I wouldn't mind _at all_.
If it were 1/50, that wouldn't help for action, too. I would only trust a stacked sensor for that. So why then the whining? I would use a good mechanical shutter over a 1/50s scan speed E-shutter all day. It was pretty clear an A7iv wouldn't introduce a stacked sensor. For this we need to wait for the A9iii, in my opinion....Show more →
The shutter sounds nothing like A1 (17:11 in the video below if the link doesn't work):
?t=1031
I don't think anybody having A7R II or (even better) R III thought A7 IV is gonna be an upgrade for them. It's not even an upgrade in every way for A7 III. I'm just waiting for A7R V at this point and pretty sure it won't be long now, althou i expect 4500+$ for it.
Sony A7 IV is a good camera. Just imo a bit pricey for an entry-level for people who think about entering Sony system. I guess for that we still have A7 III and A7C for more reasonable price.
I don't hate the A7IV, it brings a lot of great improvements but for my usage as a bird photographer as well as surfing and other action, it doesn't bring what I had hoped for. I would have at least expected them to match the R6 sensor scan speed because the 33MP would be a nice bump from the 24MP I'm using.
Yes hearing that mechanical shutter in Chris' video sounded loud. Many birds don't like mechanical shutter and are easily spooked. I'm sure in mechanical shutter mode the A7IV will be really good and maybe I'll soften my stance once there are reports from the field of greatly improved AF compared to A7IIII and how well the animal eye AF tracks and also how well the non-tracking AF works.
Holger wrote:
"I disagree with the upgrade path from the a7r2 though, that is not an obvious decision, Im interested in why you think it is? As an a7r2 owner, Im not conviced yet.."
If all you do is take landscape images on a tripod, stick with the A7r2. Otherwise, if you can't see the upgrade to the A7r2, you didn't max out the capabilities of that camera anyway and you won't max out the capabilities of the A7iv either.
For me, the upgrade would be a really big one compared to the A7r2 (I used that camera in the past, so know quite well how far Sony progressed until now!)....Show more →
I can see that there are alot of quality of life improvements but for pure image quality, is it an upgrade bearing in mind the drop in resolution? Do I want to spend 2.5k for a slightly better EVF, longer battery, dual card slots and better AF - for less MP and roughly the same image quality - it isn't an obvious answer, I think if it was 36MP then maybe it would be an easier question to answer..
While A7RII and RIII's are able to produce excellent images, it seems like the users of those bodies, when complaining on the specs on paper of the A7IV, are forgetting about operational speed and handling. I feel like once you have used a modern camera like the A1, and now the A7IV, I think it is almost impossible to go back to your hold body/technology. The operational speed and handling of menus, buttons, EVF, etc make a big difference in the overall shooting experience.
Bob_S wrote:
A 7R2 is still a better camera for landscape imo.
I've said it before, the 7R2 is the most impressive camera ever released by Sony. IMO.
I think the days of those amazing releases are history. The new stuff is either expensive or a minor evolution.
I agree, R2 was fantastic and such a bargain now. The A7iv is a nice camera although nothing at all I'm interested in. What I think this does though is clearly signals that there is room for an A9iii which I was not sure there was before. I also think the stage is set for possibly the A9iii being the first camera with no mechanical shutter. It should be more photographer oriented than video and would fit price wise still between the Riv and the A1. I'd like to see 36mp but if they do go no mechanical it probably would be less. I don't see anything else coming this year. Heck they still can't get A1 and A7siii and other cameras in stock. Well just sit back and wait.
zz wrote:
A lot of people, including myself, had that hope. The sensor technology is available I would think, and maybe even at the price point of the A7IV ($2499 or €2799). I feel like Sony would have made a big splash if they had, and they would really have put Nikon and Canon on the back foot. If only they had focused a bit more on the sensor and less on the video capabilities to make YouTubers happy.
They would have also made a big splash in their A9II sales. If they release a stacked sensor into an A7, it's almost another A9, since the controls and the form factor are basically the same along all of their FF cameras, A7C excluded. With a more expensive A9II still available, they were no chance that they shoot themselves in the foot by releasing a stacked sensor into a 2500$ camera...
Bob_S wrote:
A 7R2 is still a better camera for landscape imo.
I've said it before, the 7R2 is the most impressive camera ever released by Sony. IMO.
I think the days of those amazing releases are history. The new stuff is either expensive or a minor evolution.
I agree partially; the R2 update from R1 was impressive but R3 is where everything became well rounded. Bigger battery, 14 bit silent shutter, evf, dual card slots, time lapse.
And you mention no revolution but the A1 is one of me most impressive cameras in the last few years.
The a7iv is fine, I would even say great. The issue is that the prices are increasing so much (for everything) that makes me wonder which beginner is going to jump on such a camera.
Anyway, I'm more interested in a a7c2. So, Sony, bring all of these updates plus better evf and front dial to it.
zz wrote:
.