Holger wrote:
"it also competes against new Z7's and A7RIII's both of which beat it handily there."
Huh? I used the A7riii for quite some time. I bet the A7iv runs circles around it. It has its strengths, but also many weaknesses. The only advantage of the A7riii is the higher MP count, for those who need that. If I want to shoot landscape stuff only, the A7riii is a fantastic value. But video quality, operating spped, EVF, LCD, AF, ...?
The R6 20 fps is nice, but limited (slow readout, 20MP). Is that feature really enough to justify that price, but the sum of the features in the A7iv and likely better IQ isn't? In my opinion, there doesn't have to be one distinct feature to justify the price, the whole package suffices.
I'm talking specifically about 33MP being a selling point of the A7IV, the Z7 and A7RIII both beat it on MP for pretty much identical cost.
As to the R6, while 20fps is limited, 12fps mechanical is not and the A7IV can be as little as 5fps in configurations that the R6 is 12fps (uncompressed RAW....)
Interesting that they have the new much faster processor and use the faster cfexpress cards but have limited the fps to 6 with uncompressed raw (or lossless compressed raw), only doing 10 with lossy compression.
Seems like segmentation to me, I think the a7riv can do 8fps uncompressed raw with the older cpu writing 61mp images to sdcard.
I have an A7rII and I'm looking for an upgrade to a camera that handles better and is faster in operation. Megapixel count isn't that important as I rarely use what the rII provides. I was hoping the A7IV would be that camera. And for the most part I think it is. But the problem is, I thought it would come in less than $2500. For less than that I can get a used A9 which I think meets my requirements as well as the A7IV? I do think I would miss the new menus but is that enough to recommend the IV over the A9. Decisions decisions....
j4nu wrote:
I don't know what's so hard to understand about it. If you disregard all the competition, then the whole idea of non-monopoly market benefitting the customer is rendered invalid.
I understand why Sony keeps an eye on the competition...why do you care? Surely Sony has gear that allows you to make the photos you want.
chez wrote:
I understand why Sony keeps an eye on the competition...why do you care? Surely Sony has gear that allows you to make the photos you want.
The A7IV is still a compelling product and it does provide better options than the Z6II and R6 in my opinion for photography and as an all-rounder, but it seems like it cut corners to get there and I feel like that's what irks people. Sony seems to have the attitude of not feeling the need to innovate much. "As long as we give people 50% better performance every 3 years we don't have to worry about them running off to our competitor".
It's just that complacency that irks people; and that's a bad thing to have in your customer base. Especially combined with a rather significant price increase. We all want the A7IV to be the class-leading entry level product, and it might still be; but not the way people had hoped for at $1999.
mawz wrote:
I'm talking specifically about 33MP being a selling point of the A7IV, the Z7 and A7RIII both beat it on MP for pretty much identical cost.
As to the R6, while 20fps is limited, 12fps mechanical is not and the A7IV can be as little as 5fps in configurations that the R6 is 12fps (uncompressed RAW....)
But you are picking individual features from different cameras. Sure the R6 has better fps...but it sucks with its 2005 20mpux sensor. From a complete package, the A74 looks pretty damn good.
cxpics wrote:
Does the 1/15 readout speed mean that it's only updating AF at 15hz instead of 60hz like the A9? Would love to grab this as a second body but I doubt it will do well shooting action with 1.4 and 1.8 apertures and fast moving subjects. That said I might rent it to see if it works for my type of shooting.
"Would love to grab this as a second body but I doubt it will do well shooting action with 1.4 and 1.8 apertures and fast moving subjects"
What do you mean by action with 1.4 aperture? I shot weddings with the A73 and it did fine. So why do you think the A7iv would let you down? Do you intend to use it for BIF?
zz wrote:
The A7IV is still a compelling product and it does provide better options than the Z6II and R6 in my opinion for photography and as an all-rounder, but it seems like it cut corners to get there and I feel like that's what irks people. Sony seems to have the attitude of not feeling the need to innovate much. "As long as we give people 50% better performance every 3 years we don't have to worry about them running off to our competitor".
It's just that complacency that irks people; and that's a bad thing to have in your customer base. Especially combined with a rather significant price increase. We all want the A7IV to be the class-leading entry level product, and it might still be; but not the way people had hoped for at $1999....Show more →
It is the A7iv, not A9iii or A1. What should Sony have changed, to still leave enough room to an A9iii and A7rv etc.? I think that isn't an easy task.
jwpstl wrote:
I have an A7rII and I'm looking for an upgrade to a camera that handles better and is faster in operation. Megapixel count isn't that important as I rarely use what the rII provides. I was hoping the A7IV would be that camera. And for the most part I think it is. But the problem is, I thought it would come in less than $2500. For less than that I can get a used A9 which I think meets my requirements as well as the A7IV? I do think I would miss the new menus but is that enough to recommend the IV over the A9. Decisions decisions.......Show more →
Yeah, I find it hard to evaluate the seemingly small incremental upgrades that the A7IV makes in many ways, against a used A9 with its stacked sensor or A7rIV with much higher resolution sensor. These two older cameras have features that are obviously better than the A7IV, so I feel like I need to get impressions from reviews before evaluating just on specs to see how the A7IV's newer tech makes a difference in use.
Not for me, but I get the price. Consider the fact that in 3-4 years cameras like the A7III/7C will be most likely around 1k on the used market. Sony has to know the gravy train is going to end soon enough once everyone gets their fill of eye AF..and a certain apex of performance in terms of video specs have been hit. We're mostly there at this point.
Nice incremental upgrade though...if you can afford it.
Holger wrote:
It is the A7iv, not A9iii or A1. What should Sony have changed, to still leave enough room to an A9iii and A7rv etc.? I think that isn't an easy task.
Oh you're absolutely right. We can't look in Sony's kitchen and see what else they have in the oven. It just feels like this isn't the best they have to offer for $2499. Especially not for €2799.
Some of this camera looks great - 10 bit video, the AF upgrades in both stills and video, 33mp, full size HDMI, easy webcam mode, separate photo/video/S&Q mode dial, new processor/menus/touchscreen (so much better using my a7sIII over the a7III), the focus breathing compensation and so on. Just a lot of smaller enhancements that add up to what looks like a better package after watching a few videos.
Some of it looks just ok - crop at 4k60p, speed is nothing special, Sony really hasn't made any strides with its IBIS so its still behind the competition despite the active and catalyst stabilization options.
Some of it sucks - rolling shutter is still bad, no real FPS upgrade with lots of gotcha's, the LCD/EVF are no better than what we've seen from others two years ago so meh.
IMO the stacked sensor version of this will be the a9III - which will shoot 6k and uncropped 4k along with the usual a9 speed enhancements - and that's why its been hit with the cripple hammer.
That said, I really dislike shooting with the a7III after getting the a7sIII - it really feels old and slow. I preordered the a7IV and since B&H says shipping won't start until December 30, I have plenty of time to decide. Even if I get a first batch copy, I'll easily be able to sell it for basically no loss after a couple months. Honestly, if the a7rIV did 10-bit video and Cinetone, I'd just grab one from B&S here. I shoot a lot of video and matching the 8-bit stuff to the a7sIII is time consuming.
All in all, at $2k it would be amazing, at $2500 its an incremental upgrade that catches up to competitors like the z6II and r6, but nothing earth shattering.
zz wrote: