p.5 #7 · Official: Voigtlander Heliar Classic 50mm F1.5 VM
Fred Miranda wrote:
I wonder how the CV 50/1.5's rendering will compare to the Zeiss 50/1.4's. They have different optical designs.
The Zeiss's design is similar to the CV 35/1.4.
What I mean is that the samples don't show any special character and I think many old double Gauss lenses look similar, even if they have completely different designs. I don't think rendering is derived from the particular order or number of lens elements, and that you can't say that "a Sonnar/Planar/Distagon draws like this/that", because you can make it completely different with very small changes. :-)
p.5 #8 · Official: Voigtlander Heliar Classic 50mm F1.5 VM
This is going to be a very interesting lens offered by Voigtlander for sure. The optical design of this lens is a modified Tessa design. The traditional Tessar designs are three lens groups with four/five-element configurations. Both Voigtlander’s classic Heliar 50/3.5 and limited collapsible 50/2 are both five-element in three groups design (2-1-2), where Leica Elmar-M 50/2.8 is four-element in three groups (1-1-2), as does the Hasselblad/Zeiss CB 160/4.8 lens. Both the Leica and Hasselblad/Zeiss lenses have a larger front element whereas Voigtlander uses two elements in the front group design. The main advantage of traditional Tessar design is that it uses few elements to gather the light and as a result some of images have very natural and organic feel, particularly in relatively good lighting conditions, such as for late afternoon golden light. The disadvantage is that the f-stop of this type of design is pretty large since there are not a lot of glass elements to correct the light pass. The limited edition of the collapsible Voigtlander classic Heliar 50/2 was pushing the Tessar design limit a bit. But in this new lens, Voigtlander is adding an element in the middle group to a six-element three groups design (2-2-2). Hopefully this modified design will achieve good performance at f/1.5 and to improve/enlarge sharper center image circle, yet to retain the traditional smooth and natural look of the traditional Tessar characteristics.
p.5 #9 · Official: Voigtlander Heliar Classic 50mm F1.5 VM
ocean2059 wrote:
This is going to be a very interesting lens offered by Voigtlander for sure. The optical design of this lens is a modified Tessa design. The traditional Tessar designs are three lens groups with four/five-element configurations. Both Voigtlander’s classic Heliar 50/3.5 and limited collapsible 50/2 are both five-element in three groups design (2-1-2), where Leica Elmar-M 50/2.8 is four-element in three groups (1-1-2), as does the Hasselblad/Zeiss CB 160/4.8 lens. Both the Leica and Hasselblad/Zeiss lenses have a larger front element whereas Voigtlander uses two elements in the front group design. The main advantage of traditional Tessar design is that it uses few elements to gather the light and as a result some of images have very natural and organic feel, particularly in relatively good lighting conditions, such as for late afternoon golden light. The disadvantage is that the f-stop of this type of design is pretty large since there are not a lot of glass elements to correct the light pass. The limited edition of the collapsible Voigtlander classic Heliar 50/2 was pushing the Tessar design limit a bit. But in this new lens, Voigtlander is adding an element in the middle group to a six-element three groups design (2-2-2). Hopefully this modified design will achieve good performance at f/1.5 and to improve/enlarge sharper center image circle, yet to retain the traditional smooth and natural look of the traditional Tessar characteristics. ...Show more →
The six element Heliar is then a Tessar, which has been modified to accomodate a greater lens speed of f/1.5 instead of f/2.8 in common four element Tessar types. (Contax/Yashica 45/2.8 Tessar, Leica 50/2.8 Elmar, Nikon 45/2.8P)
p.5 #11 · Official: Voigtlander Heliar Classic 50mm F1.5 VM
highdesertmesa wrote:
Will this be Voigtlander's first M-mount 50 with an MFD shorter than 0.7m?
Yes for Cosina Voigtländer. All their other M-mount 50mm lenses that are currently in production focus to 0.7m and their discontinued older 50mm lenses in M or LTM focused to 0.7m, 0.75m or 1.0m depending on lens.
I'm not very familiar with all the old 50mm Voigtländer lenses from the original Voigtländer company but I would assume none of them focused this close either.
p.5 #13 · Official: Voigtlander Heliar Classic 50mm F1.5 VM
ocean2059 wrote:
This is going to be a very interesting lens offered by Voigtlander for sure. The optical design of this lens is a modified Tessa design. The traditional Tessar designs are three lens groups with four/five-element configurations. Both Voigtlander’s classic Heliar 50/3.5 and limited collapsible 50/2 are both five-element in three groups design (2-1-2), where Leica Elmar-M 50/2.8 is four-element in three groups (1-1-2), as does the Hasselblad/Zeiss CB 160/4.8 lens. Both the Leica and Hasselblad/Zeiss lenses have a larger front element whereas Voigtlander uses two elements in the front group design. The main advantage of traditional Tessar design is that it uses few elements to gather the light and as a result some of images have very natural and organic feel, particularly in relatively good lighting conditions, such as for late afternoon golden light. The disadvantage is that the f-stop of this type of design is pretty large since there are not a lot of glass elements to correct the light pass. The limited edition of the collapsible Voigtlander classic Heliar 50/2 was pushing the Tessar design limit a bit. But in this new lens, Voigtlander is adding an element in the middle group to a six-element three groups design (2-2-2). Hopefully this modified design will achieve good performance at f/1.5 and to improve/enlarge sharper center image circle, yet to retain the traditional smooth and natural look of the traditional Tessar characteristics. ...Show more →
p.5 #14 · Official: Voigtlander Heliar Classic 50mm F1.5 VM
d.s. wrote:
Are there 50s from other M/LTM lens manufacturers that go to .5m?
EDIT: There, their, they're.
There are some old 1950's 50mm LTM lenses from at least Nikon and Tanaka Kogaku that focus all the way down to 0.45m.
I personally have Tanaka Kogaku Tanar H.C. 5cm f2 that has this close focusing ability.
Nikon Nikkor H.C. 5cm F/2 also has the same 0.45m close focusing option.
Tanaka Kogaku might have copied the idea from Nikon. These are both Sonnar type lenses and at least in case of Tanar it seems to be optimized more for close-up shots than for infinity.
p.5 #16 · Official: Voigtlander Heliar Classic 50mm F1.5 VM
Juha Kannisto wrote:
There are some old 1950's 50mm LTM lenses from at least Nikon and Tanaka Kogaku that focus all the way down to 0.45m.
I personally have Tanaka Kogaku Tanar H.C. 5cm f2 that has this close focusing ability.
Nikon Nikkor H.C. 5cm F/2 also has the same 0.45m close focusing option.
Tanaka Kogaku might have copied the idea from Nikon. These are both Sonnar type lenses and at least in case of Tanar it seems to be optimized more for close-up shots than for infinity.
p.5 #17 · Official: Voigtlander Heliar Classic 50mm F1.5 VM
Juha Kannisto wrote:
There are some old 1950's 50mm LTM lenses from at least Nikon and Tanaka Kogaku that focus all the way down to 0.45m.
I personally have Tanaka Kogaku Tanar H.C. 5cm f2 that has this close focusing ability.
Nikon Nikkor H.C. 5cm F/2 also has the same 0.45m close focusing option.
Tanaka Kogaku might have copied the idea from Nikon. These are both Sonnar type lenses and at least in case of Tanar it seems to be optimized more for close-up shots than for infinity.
As does the Nikkor-H.C’s bigger brother, the Nikkor-S.C 5cm f/1.4. Both the H.C f/2 and the S.C f/1.4 are optimized for the close-up range. I’d be very surprised if Tanaka Kogaku didn’t copy the Nikkor lenses, both with the Sonnar design and close focusing capability. I have both the f/2 and f/1.4 lenses in both LTM and S-mount.
This is a fascinating article about the development of the Nikkor-H.C 5cm f/2 lens:
p.5 #18 · Official: Voigtlander Heliar Classic 50mm F1.5 VM
genji wrote:
As does the Nikkor-H.C’s bigger brother, the Nikkor-S.C 5cm f/1.4. Both the H.C f/2 and the S.C f/1.4 are optimized for the close-up range. I’d be very surprised if Tanaka Kogaku didn’t copy the Nikkor lenses, both with the Sonnar design and close focusing capability. I have both the f/2 and f/1.4 lenses in both LTM and S-mount.
This is a fascinating article about the development of the Nikkor-H.C 5cm f/2 lens:
I've been interested in those Nikkors as well and might get the LTM f1.4 version some day if I find a great copy at a decent price. Tanar H.C. 5cm f2 does indeed look like a close copy of the Nikkor-H.C. 5cm f/2 so it might not make sense to get the f2 version of the Nikkor for me since I already got the Tanar.
Tanaka Kogaku also had a few other close focusing 5cm LTM lenses, they have close focusing versions of 5cm f3.5 and f2.8 lenses with same 1.5 feet/0.45m focusing distance and their 5cm f1.9 and f1.8 focus to 0.6m. I've been trying to get either version of their 5cm f1.8 in a couple of auctions but those are extremely limited in availability and prices tend to go too high as those were released in very limited numbers after Tanaka Kogaku went bankrupt.
p.5 #19 · Official: Voigtlander Heliar Classic 50mm F1.5 VM
Juha Kannisto wrote:
There are some old 1950's 50mm LTM lenses from at least Nikon and Tanaka Kogaku that focus all the way down to 0.45m.
I personally have Tanaka Kogaku Tanar H.C. 5cm f2 that has this close focusing ability.
Nikon Nikkor H.C. 5cm F/2 also has the same 0.45m close focusing option.
Tanaka Kogaku might have copied the idea from Nikon. These are both Sonnar type lenses and at least in case of Tanar it seems to be optimized more for close-up shots than for infinity.
I just became acquainted recently with my first Tanaka lens which I bought in excellent condition (no scratches, mint looking lens body including original leather case) at a local photo store for $40! It is the Tanaka Tele-Tanar 135/3.5 LTM lens which I thought nothing to do wrong for $40 without knowing anything about this brand nor lens. I had only the Leica Hektor 135/4.5 M-lens before which I find underwhelming especially on digital due to its very low contrast. But I am blown away by the Tanaka-lens - sharp and contrasty wide open on digital sensors (Leica M 240 and Sony A7R).
p.5 #20 · Official: Voigtlander Heliar Classic 50mm F1.5 VM
retrofocus wrote:
I just became acquainted recently with my first Tanaka lens which I bought in excellent condition (no scratches, mint looking lens body including original leather case) at a local photo store for $40! It is the Tanaka Tele-Tanar 135/3.5 LTM lens which I thought nothing to do wrong for $40 without knowing anything about this brand nor lens. I had only the Leica Hektor 135/4.5 M-lens before which I find underwhelming especially on digital due to its very low contrast. But I am blown away by the Tanaka-lens - sharp and contrasty wide open on digital sensors (Leica M 240 and Sony A7R). ...Show more →
Sounds like you got it at a great price Not so many of those 135/3.5 lenses going around in Japan either. I've been keeping an eye on Tanar 35/2.8 in addition to their faster 50mm lenses but so far haven't found any great deals. All those Tanars have relatively high prices in the 2nd hand market if they are in good condition. 5cm f2s are not super rare and I paid close to $400 for my 5cm f2 and it was in better condition than any other copies I've seen. The very rare 5cm f1.8 have been going for > $1000 and I wasn't ready to pay that much although I've been trying in 3 auctions. One of their 5cm f1.5 is currently on offer in Yahoo Japan auctions in a crappy condition with a Tanack Type-SD camera body for 550 000 JPY (!). It will not sell at that price though...
Not so many of those 135/3.5 lenses going around in Japan either. I've been keeping an eye on Tanar 35/2.8 in addition to their faster 50mm lenses but so far haven't found any great deals. All those Tanars have relatively high prices in the 2nd hand market if they are in good condition. 5cm f2s are not super rare and I paid close to $400 for my 5cm f2 and it was in better condition than any other copies I've seen. The very rare 5cm f1.8 have been going for > $1000 and I wasn't ready to pay that much although I've been trying in 3 auctions. One of their 5cm f1.5 is currently on offer in Yahoo Japan auctions in a crappy condition with a Tanack Type-SD camera body for 550 000 JPY (!). It will not sell at that price though...