Nikon Asia is hosting a session now with 6 photographers.
One person said that Z9 turned on immediately and she could start tracking bird with 3D tracking
in about 1 second flat after hitting the power button.
A Singaporean photographer said that in auto subject focus, Z9 was tracking bicycle at long distance but switched to rider focusing on helmet and visor at closer distance. But Nikon Asia did say that best way to track helmet is just to use 3D tracking.
I asked about noise level whether it is comparable to Z7 ii, Z6ii or D6. Nikon Asia said it is better than Z7 ii I guess with base iso of 64, it is hard to expect it to be better than Z6ii or D6 .ง But jpg output at iso 16000-25000 was surprisingly good but they did not show raw file though.
Shooting wildlife silhouette against sunset, AF will pick up animal face/head.
One photographer mentioned he shot 2700 shots in one session and battery was only half empty but I guess with high FPS shooting, you tend to get loads of photos anyhow.
In AF-C mode, focus point does not stay red the whole time like Z6/Z7 and will turn green to confirm focus.
Nikon Asia recommends Prograde Cobalt CFExpress card.
at 1.37H, there is a short video clip for bird photography and a few short EVF captured video for bif.
PS 1.39.23 hornbill shot, you can see large grey circle in the middle of the frame. I was told that this is a new
metering mode where the camera assume the object in the circle is the main subject and outside the circle is the background.
Suppose to work very well in metering bright background to prevent hilight overblown and still keep the subject better lit than usual metering mode.
PSS a)from evening local Q&A f/u session, from switching power on, camera is ready to take photos in 0.4s.
b) a whole day shooting at motorbike race, > 10,000 shots, still 40% battery left.
c) warm display color turn LCD screen black and orange/red for night time shooting where you don't want light from lcd to interfere with whatever.
d) motorcycle if you select vehicle, it will focus on the motorcycle, if select face detection, it iwll focus on helmet (an EVF captured video was shown).
e) motorcycle coming directly toward the camera at 250 km/hr was no problem
f) at almost 7pm after sunset, tracking a dog running toward camera at iso12800 was no problem. I think it was with 50/1.2 but he did not say at what SS.
g) TTL flash with face detection, TTL is measured at detected face only.
h) touch screen has glove mode. ( handy for people with fat fingers also )
thanks, this event has also been advertised by Nikon S Africa.
@57:00 mention of improved custom options for faster switching between the Shooting banks
suteetat wrote:
Nikon Asia is hosting a session now with 6 photographers.
One person said that Z9 turned on immediately and she could start tracking bird with 3D tracking
in about 1 second flat after hitting the power button.
A Singaporean photographer said that in auto subject focus, Z9 was tracking bicycle at long distance but switched to rider focusing on helmet and visor at closer distance. But Nikon Asia did say that best way to track helmet is just to use 3D tracking.
I asked about noise level whether it is comparable to Z7 ii, Z6ii or D6. Nikon Asia said it is better than Z7 ii I guess with base iso of 64, it is hard to expect it to be better than Z6ii or D6 .ง But jpg output at iso 16000-25000 was surprisingly good but they did not show raw file though.
Shooting wildlife silhouette against sunset, AF will pick up animal face/head.
One photographer mentioned he shot 2700 shots in one session and battery was only half empty but I guess with high FPS shooting, you tend to get loads of photos anyhow.
In AF-C mode, focus point does not stay red the whole time like Z6/Z7 and will turn green to confirm focus.
Nikon Asia recommends Prograde Cobalt CFExpress card.
at 1.37H, there is a short video clip for bird photography and a few short EVF captured video for bif. ...Show more →
They're probably also good hand and boot warmers...unless the temp can cause secondary degree burns. chambeshi wrote:
Get the Delkin CFExpr cards for action photography with your Z9.
Get the Lexar and Sandisk to heat up your coffee when out shooting with your Z9 in the cold.
1. Insert CFexpress card into your camera;
2. Simply shoot a long series of anything at high frame rate until card is full;
3. Open card slot cover Very carefully drop the hot card into your coffee mug;
4. Remove card with forceps (or tongs), dry carefully, and repeat above 3 steps until the liquid reaches the right temperature;
5. Savour your warming beverage waiting for the swallows to fly by to record on your Delkin CFExpress Card(s)
shared by an industry engineer in Tokyo - https://nikongear.net/revival/index.php?action=post;quote=177194;topic=10206.90;last_msg=177206
Re: Z9 Release Thread
« Reply #103 on: October 31, 2021, 19:13:34 »
Quote
"This Japanese YouTuber is an retired engineer who apparently had worked for Panasonic until fairly recently. He whole-heartedly admires the Nikon managers and engineers for having developed technologies incorporated into Z9."
(His narration is Japanese.)
He suspects that the sensor was made by Tower Semiconductor which originally was part of Panasonic.
The follow up post in the same NG thread by the technical expert in Japan, who shared this video, has kindly translated the key points of the video:
"...Here are the comments in the video I consider essential.
He suspects that the sensor was developed by Tower Semiconductor (formerly called Tower Jazz) based on the technology they had established when they developed their 1” stack BSI sensor.
He calculates that the electronic shutter “curtain” should run only slightly slower than a mechanical 1/8000 shutter unit, which at the same time keeps its rolling shutter effect at almost the same level as that caused by a mechanical 1/8000 shutter.
And the 1/32,000 sec. exposure time is enabled thanks to the fact that an electronic shutter is free from the mechanical instability which makes it difficult to keep the extremely narrow slit for the 1/32,000 sec.
He was impressed by the fact that the brave decision to eliminate the mechanical shutter altogether was made neither by Canon or Sony but by Nikon! He also points out that the development of a mechanical shutter of this level would have cost extremely high, and its manufacturing process would be extremely complicated, which would raise the production cost even more. (I think this is part of the reason for the relatively low price of Z9 for a flagship model packed with the game-changing new technology).
He also suspects that the engineers could concentrate on the development of other technologies like the image stabilization because they didn’t need to worry about the development of a new shutter unit.
He also assesses the Expeed 7 processor to be at least comparable to the image processor of Canon’ R3, enabling 8k video, fast read-out of the sensor data and Ai-enforced AF. The Expeed 7 can take full advantage of the blindingly fast sensor.
The resolution of EVF is 3.69MP which is relatively low, compared to those of the higher-end models of other manufacturers. He thinks that the resolution could be the highest data rate possible to enable the “dual streaming processing”.
In the video, he doesn’t make an elaborate comparison to Canon R3, the potential direct rival of Z9, because Z9 is worldly different from R3!
Based on his own experience of developing sensors and image processing engines (probably at Panasonic), he believes that the vision of the planning and the designing of Z9 is extremely well focused. And he highly admires that the cooperation between the managers and the engineers have worked very well.
It is funny that he goes so far as to say that Panasonic should have been the first camera manufacturer ever to develop the technology of eliminating the mechanical shutter, because it was the first company to offer the interchangeable lens mirrorless camera. He says he would have been happy if only his bosses are like the ones of Nikon.
In the previous videos assessing Z6 and Z7, he pointed out that a flange back of 16mm could be very challenging for the engineers to pack the mechanical shutter unit, UV/IR-cut filter and the IBIS mechanism, compared to Canon and Sony whose flange backs are around 22mm. But now he admires the decision on the short 16mm flange back, if Nikon envisioned the omission of the shutter unit.
He considers that Z9 is a great proof of Nikon’s solid fundamental technology. Apparently, He almost compares Nikon having endured severe situation of being left behind Sony and Canon to La Comte de Monte-Cristo.
He also says that such a ground-breaking camera may suffer from the unbalanced performance caused by the unbalanced developing level of technology for each function of the camera. But he would choose to admire the challenging aspect of Z9 rather than nit-picking the unbalanced performance."
suteetat wrote:
Nikon Asia is hosting a session now with 6 photographers.
One person said that Z9 turned on immediately and she could start tracking bird with 3D tracking
in about 1 second flat after hitting the power button.
A Singaporean photographer said that in auto subject focus, Z9 was tracking bicycle at long distance but switched to rider focusing on helmet and visor at closer distance. But Nikon Asia did say that best way to track helmet is just to use 3D tracking.
I asked about noise level whether it is comparable to Z7 ii, Z6ii or D6. Nikon Asia said it is better than Z7 ii I guess with base iso of 64, it is hard to expect it to be better than Z6ii or D6 .ง But jpg output at iso 16000-25000 was surprisingly good but they did not show raw file though.
Shooting wildlife silhouette against sunset, AF will pick up animal face/head.
One photographer mentioned he shot 2700 shots in one session and battery was only half empty but I guess with high FPS shooting, you tend to get loads of photos anyhow.
In AF-C mode, focus point does not stay red the whole time like Z6/Z7 and will turn green to confirm focus.
Nikon Asia recommends Prograde Cobalt CFExpress card.
at 1.37H, there is a short video clip for bird photography and a few short EVF captured video for bif.
PS 1.39.23 hornbill shot, you can see large grey circle in the middle of the frame. I was told that this is a new
metering mode where the camera assume the object in the circle is the main subject and outside the circle is the background.
Suppose to work very well in metering bright background to prevent hilight overblown and still keep the subject better lit than usual metering mode.
PSS a)from evening local Q&A f/u session, from switching power on, camera is ready to take photos in 0.4s.
b) a whole day shooting at motorbike race, > 10,000 shots, still 40% battery left.
c) warm display color turn LCD screen black and orange/red for night time shooting where you don't want light from lcd to interfere with whatever.
d) motorcycle if you select vehicle, it will focus on the motorcycle, if select face detection, it iwll focus on helmet (an EVF captured video was shown).
e) motorcycle coming directly toward the camera at 250 km/hr was no problem
f) at almost 7pm after sunset, tracking a dog running toward camera at iso12800 was no problem. I think it was with 50/1.2 but he did not say at what SS.
g) TTL flash with face detection, TTL is measured at detected face only.
h) touch screen has glove mode. ( handy for people with fat fingers also ) ...Show more →
Thank you for the exciting Thai vids you posted in the "repository". Please keep them coming!
You said: " I asked about noise level whether it is comparable to Z7 ii, Z6ii or D6. Nikon Asia said it is better than Z7 ii I guess with base iso of 64, it is hard to expect it to be better than Z6ii or D6 .ง But jpg output at iso 16000-25000 was surprisingly good but they did not show raw file though. "
Somewhere in these Z9 vids, a highly reputable reviewer (seem to recall Ricci?) said that the Z9 sensor is not the same as the sensor in the Z7II. I wonder who built the Z7II sensor?
I'll bet a nickel that we'll eventually learn that the Z9 sensor was built by Tower Semiconductor of Israel.
Reference the last Pui Dara Naphaphet vid you posted: She used the articulating viewfinder to shoot birds in a forest canopy. My D850 does not come close to performing like this Z9 will perform in this situation.
It seems that this feature will greatly help to reduce strain on the neck muscles and vertebrae. I just need Nikon to include (in a firmware update) the option to change the color of the Single Point AF to any of the vibrant Focus Peaking colors too (red, yellow, white, blue) Yes!
Did she take those still images of nature in the vid? They're nothing shy of spectacular!
Robert
p.s. I'm going to Thailand!
Edit: Just scanned Chambeshi's post above. Noted the Tower Semiconductor reference.
bs kite wrote:
Somewhere in these Z9 vids, a highly reputable reviewer (seem to recall Ricci?) said that the Z9 sensor is not the same as the sensor in the Z7II. I wonder who built the Z7II sensor?
I'll bet a nickel that we'll eventually learn that the Z9 sensor was built by Tower Semiconductor of Israel.
The Z7II has a Sony Fabricated sensor.
Won't take your bet on Tower. Can't afford to lose too many nickels, my guess is that Tower did fab it for Nikon. We will know in time...
suteetat wrote:
Nikon Asia is hosting a session now with 6 photographers.
One person said that Z9 turned on immediately and she could start tracking bird with 3D tracking
in about 1 second flat after hitting the power button.
A Singaporean photographer said that in auto subject focus, Z9 was tracking bicycle at long distance but switched to rider focusing on helmet and visor at closer distance. But Nikon Asia did say that best way to track helmet is just to use 3D tracking.
I asked about noise level whether it is comparable to Z7 ii, Z6ii or D6. Nikon Asia said it is better than Z7 ii I guess with base iso of 64, it is hard to expect it to be better than Z6ii or D6 .ง But jpg output at iso 16000-25000 was surprisingly good but they did not show raw file though.
Shooting wildlife silhouette against sunset, AF will pick up animal face/head.
One photographer mentioned he shot 2700 shots in one session and battery was only half empty but I guess with high FPS shooting, you tend to get loads of photos anyhow.
In AF-C mode, focus point does not stay red the whole time like Z6/Z7 and will turn green to confirm focus.
In AF-C mode, focus point does not stay red the whole time like Z6/Z7 and will turn green to confirm focus.
That is such a great news, It will make af on with afc much better, I didn't like to have no confirmation of focus with afc!!
Nikon Asia recommends Prograde Cobalt CFExpress card.
at 1.37H, there is a short video clip for bird photography and a few short EVF captured video for bif.
PS 1.39.23 hornbill shot, you can see large grey circle in the middle of the frame. I was told that this is a new
metering mode where the camera assume the object in the circle is the main subject and outside the circle is the background.
Suppose to work very well in metering bright background to prevent hilight overblown and still keep the subject better lit than usual metering mode.
PSS a)from evening local Q&A f/u session, from switching power on, camera is ready to take photos in 0.4s.
b) a whole day shooting at motorbike race, > 10,000 shots, still 40% battery left.
c) warm display color turn LCD screen black and orange/red for night time shooting where you don't want light from lcd to interfere with whatever.
d) motorcycle if you select vehicle, it will focus on the motorcycle, if select face detection, it iwll focus on helmet (an EVF captured video was shown).
e) motorcycle coming directly toward the camera at 250 km/hr was no problem
f) at almost 7pm after sunset, tracking a dog running toward camera at iso12800 was no problem. I think it was with 50/1.2 but he did not say at what SS.
g) TTL flash with face detection, TTL is measured at detected face only.
h) touch screen has glove mode. ( handy for people with fat fingers also ) ...Show more →
Not sure why anyone would care who fabbed the sensor. I'd care more about who designed it but even then, in the end, all I care about is how it works. I'm sure all these big sensor fabricators do similar work and quality control whether it is Tower or Sony or Canon or other.
arbitrage wrote:
Not sure why anyone would care who fabbed the sensor. I'd care more about who designed it but even then, in the end, all I care about is how it works. I'm sure all these big sensor fabricators do similar work and quality control whether it is Tower or Sony or Canon or other.
Exactly, those discussions make me lol. I am part of an engineering group, perfectly understanding what design and engineering mean, as well as what fabrication per our design means.
I think in the end it does not matter who fabricates the sensor as much as the final result.
The only real reason to emphasize that it is Tower rather than Sony is however much more important
for the flame war
In the past all over the internet, how often did you hear Nikon is doomed and is never going to be competitive with Sony because Sony controlled the sensor and Nikon can only get whatever Sony decided to give them or Nikon designing its own sensor is a joke, it is all Sony behind the sensor etc etc.
Lots of debate, flame war had happened and the true relationship between Nikon and Sony Semiconductor/Sony camera division was not very clear cut in the consumer's eyes.
I think the only real message about Tower as the source of sensor manufacturer shows that Nikon is still in control of its sensor design and does not get only hand me down or whatever Sony decides to give Nikon. Of course I am sure that Nikon will still depends on some patents own by Sony so Nikon is not exactly independent of Sony.
Also Sony had the monopoly on stacked sensor since 2017 but finally made OEM stacked sensor available I think in 2020 (but no taker yet as far as I know).
I wonder if this is because Sony knows that finally its customer now has an alternative source of fabricator so there is no reason to keep stacked sensor just for Sony camera division?
In my mind, at the very least, now one flame war is put to rest. Let the next flame war begins, who makes the better sensor, Tower or Sony and hopefully Nikon can cherry pick from either
bs kite wrote:
Reference the last Pui Dara Naphaphet vid you posted: She used the articulating viewfinder to shoot birds in a forest canopy. My D850 does not come close to performing like this Z9 will perform in this situation.
It seems that this feature will greatly help to reduce strain on the neck muscles and vertebrae. I just need Nikon to include (in a firmware update) the option to change the color of the Single Point AF to any of the vibrant Focus Peaking colors too (red, yellow, white, blue) Yes!
Did she take those still images of nature in the vid? They're nothing shy of spectacular!
Robert
p.s. I'm going to Thailand!
Edit: Just scanned Chambeshi's post above. Noted the Tower Semiconductor reference. ...Show more →
I was told that they intentially showed her using articulating viewfinder in the rain to show how good the weather seal is and
wiring between the screen and camera was weather sealed as well.
Dara took all the wildlife shots. A lovely lady who seemed to be everywhere in the country where there are birds to photograph. I ran into her very often all over the place.
All the landscape shots/clips was shot by another friend and his crew/friends, very well known local landscape, underwater and commerical photographer who sells me all my Nikon stuffs
I forgot to mention all the bird sequence was shot with firmware 0.8 . The location for the hornbill is a well known location that about one week a year, you can get lots of hornbill flight shots when some of tree bears fruit/nut/seed that the hornbills like. That happened in August. The sea eagle location, I went there a couple of weeks ago after they told me about it when they went to make the video also in August.
suteetat wrote:
I think in the end it does not matter who fabricates the sensor as much as the final result.
The only real reason to emphasize that it is Tower rather than Sony is however much more important
for the flame war
In the past all over the internet, how often did you hear Nikon is doomed and is never going to be competitive with Sony because Sony controlled the sensor and Nikon can only get whatever Sony decided to give them or Nikon designing its own sensor is a joke, it is all Sony behind the sensor etc etc.
Lots of debate, flame war had happened and the true relationship between Nikon and Sony Semiconductor/Sony camera division was not very clear cut in the consumer's eyes.
I think the only real message about Tower as the source of sensor manufacturer shows that Nikon is still in control of its sensor design and does not get only hand me down or whatever Sony decides to give Nikon. Of course I am sure that Nikon will still depends on some patents own by Sony so Nikon is not exactly independent of Sony.
Also Sony had the monopoly on stacked sensor since 2017 but finally made OEM stacked sensor available I think in 2020 (but no taker yet as far as I know).
I wonder if this is because Sony knows that finally its customer now has an alternative source of fabricator so there is no reason to keep stacked sensor just for Sony camera division?
In my mind, at the very least, now one flame war is put to rest. Let the next flame war begins, who makes the better sensor, Tower or Sony and hopefully Nikon can cherry pick from either ...Show more →
It should not matter from the perspective of the photographer. All we should care about is the performance of the camera as a system.
It does matter from a business perspective. It is better to have multiple supply lines. It is also better that a company is not dependent on a single supplier that is also a direct competitor. The President of Tower made a strong point of this in a video about Tower's capabilities when asked a direct question about Nikon and sensor supply.
Now that stacked sensors are out in the market from multiple camera manufactures the industry, and hopefully the photographic community can move forward in this regard. Situations evolve, markets evolve, technologies evolve, products evolve, conversation will also evolve. It is a good thing.
chambeshi wrote:
And in the same commentary, Thom's explanation of the EVF:
"Meanwhile the EVF has changed on the Z9, ............ Plus, the EVF has a new Starlight View mode (to -9.5EV with f/1.2 lens)."
I am sure this was discussed in the 40 + pages of this thread, so if it was beaten to death, I apologize. This particular function, 'starlight view' seems very useful. Apparently, when turned on EVF automatically boosts and show the view of near pitch black condition to help composition. Here is a link to the YouTube from Nikon's official introduction vide. I am sorry this is in Japanese. Scroll to timed 30:41 - 31:16 The photographer apparently is known for time-lapse night shooting.
Below is my rough interpretation :
"In previous Nikon cameras, I could not see anything in the darkness on EVF. I had to rely on my intuition. Only thing I could do was to shift view for each frame ilittle by little and hoped it worked. In Z9, when starlight view function is turned on, EVF boosts the brightness automatically and clearly shows the sky and land profile. This function made working in the darkness tremendously easier. "
&t=1849s
Although Z9 is too much camera for myself in many ways, I was and still am quite impressed with how Nikon is implementing technology to help solve problems down to details such as this, which made me quite excited.
akul wrote:
Although Z9 is too much camera for myself in many ways, I was quit impressed with how Nikon is implementing technology to help solve problems down to details such as this, which made me quite excited.
Luka
This is what really interests me. Would like to see if it really is too much camera for me or how much of it I'm going to really take advantage of. It is beginning to get real difficult to walk around all day with my fingers and toes crossed in hopes to be in the first run of pre-orders
akul wrote:
Although Z9 is too much camera for myself in many ways, I was quit impressed with how Nikon is implementing technology to help solve problems down to details such as this, which made me quite excited.
Luka
Immediately after starlight view, they also showed an example of warm tone display where the screen only show dark and red/orange color. It is also applicable to live view display when take pictures. The only explanation I was given is that it is for using at night when you need as little light interference from the camera as possible. Not sure when I would need it really.
The live view in warm tone looks almost like night vision goggle view but in orange/red instead of green.
I am impressed with the level of thinking and added features but one complained I heard is that the menu is now much much bigger and longer than ever as there are so many new features that are introduced in this camera.
suteetat wrote:
Immediately after starlight view, they also showed an example of warm tone display where the screen only show dark and red/orange color. It is also applicable to live view display when take pictures. The only explanation I was given is that it is for using at night when you need as little light interference from the camera as possible. Not sure when I would need it really.
The live view in warm tone looks almost like night vision goggle view but in orange/red instead of green.
I am impressed with the level of thinking and added features but one complained I heard is that the menu is now much much bigger and longer than ever as there are so many new features that are introduced in this camera.
Yes, I decided not to include that portion. Photographer explained that feature helps from getting blinded by the bright view finder, and not able to see the stars in his eyes.
arbitrage wrote:
Not sure why anyone would care who fabbed the sensor. I'd care more about who designed it but even then, in the end, all I care about is how it works. I'm sure all these big sensor fabricators do similar work and quality control whether it is Tower or Sony or Canon or other.
Why question my reason for simply mentioning the sensor was probably built by Tower Semiconductor?
bs kite wrote:
Why question my reason for simply mentioning the sensor was probably built by Tower Semiconductor?
Someone always brings that up eventually anyway.
Well my question stands...why do you care who fabbed the sensor? Although I wasn't really asking for a response, just more of a statement that I don't understand why it matters to people? But since you replied I guess I would be curious to know why it matters to you?
