The A1 EVF is awesome for Playback - I've shown my fiancee photos I've taken, and asked her to peek into the EVF
and she went "Wow, that is so clear". But I've not been very impressed with it during shooting,
especially when AF tracking is going on and the resolution drops.
During shooting, I find the z7ii and z6ii EVF to feel more natural.
In fact, I met this lady and her husband by a lake in Illinois, also shooting some Gallinules and Green Herons there.
We got to talking and she was shooting a D500 + 500 PF, while her husband was shooting with an older DSLR and
a Tamron 150-something. She told me she didn't like mirrorless as she could not think of not using the OVF.
I agreed with her that the EVF seems strange at first, but that I got used to it in a few days and now it felt normal.
She asked if she could use my z6ii for a few mins. She shot a few photos with my z6ii and the Sigma 500 f/4.
She then said "Hmmm, it's not as bad as I thought - I can see myself using it."
saaketham wrote:
The A1 EVF is awesome for Playback - I've shown my fiancee photos I've taken, and asked her to peek into the EVF and she went "Wow, that is so clear". But I've not been very impressed with it during shooting, especially when AF tracking is going on and the resolution drops. During shooting, I find the z7ii and z6ii EVF to feel more natural. If the z9 is as good or better, then good enough.
One good thing about Z EVF is that when they were developing the Z6/Z7, they had several EVF modules with various resolutions and refresh rate made and they invited a panel of pro photographers to Japan and let them tried all the modules
and voted on which EVF they liked the best. They had a few higher resolution modules available as well but the majority
of the panel picked the EVF that was used in Z6/Z7 as the best looking and most natural looking one.
I think Z9 will continue this tradition, it will have similar look and feel to Z6/Z7 ii EVF but with no lag no blackout and is brighter.
The Z5/6/7 EVF remains the most natural EVF implementation I’ve seen. It certainly bats well above its weight class. It’s not so much the resolution as how it’s tuned though, it just feels ‘transparent’ to me, even when compared to other implementations on the same basic spec panel like the X-T3/4.
arbitrage wrote:
I have a feeling the Z9 EVF is going to be a better experience than the A1 despite the spec sheet comparison.
Sony EVFs have always been unimpressive to me even with the 5M and 9M dot specs.
I was reading the Z9 PDF brochure and Nikon is making claims about their EVF being the first to not skip frames. If they are correct then I wouldn’t doubt Sony is only showing 60 frames in a second even with 120HZ refresh. Nikon showing ever single frame of the 60/s may be just as good.
Time will tell. But I think the better brightness and DR of the Z9’s EVF may be a winner no matter the resolution. ...Show more →
My A9II EVF had a micro jitter when shooting that I noticed from Day 1. To be honest it didn't affect me all that much. But its there. I'll have to run the test on the A1 to see if they've improved.
The dual stream from the image sensor on the Z9 makes a ton of sense to avoid the jitter when taking the shot.
Holy....at around 43.00 mark, they show a series of 300 plus images of a bird flying shot using the C120 fps mode and then ask the YouTube audience to choose any number from 1 to 300 to display the bird image zoomed in to show how effective the AF is...that's ridiculous!!!
Edit: And, that sequence was shot with an f mount glass (120-300 f2.8). so amazing performance with adapted glass.
Extraordinary! I need a stiff drink after watching this
gannis wrote:
Holy....at around 43.00 mark, they show a series of 300 plus images of a bird flying shot using the C120 fps mode and then ask the YouTube audience to choose any number from 1 to 300 to display the bird image zoomed in to show how effective the AF is...that's ridiculous!!!
Edit: And, that sequence was shot with an f mount glass (120-300 f2.8). so amazing performance with adapted glass.
Now, from 52.00 mark they discuss the EVF and explains how their dual stream tech in the EVF makes it so smooth and realistic thereby negating the needs to have an EVF with higher refresh rate.
gannis wrote:
Holy....at around 43.00 mark, they show a series of 300 plus images of a bird flying shot using the C120 fps mode and then ask the YouTube audience to choose any number from 1 to 300 to display the bird image zoomed in to show how effective the AF is...that's ridiculous!!!
Edit: And, that sequence was shot with an f mount glass (120-300 f2.8). so amazing performance with adapted glass.
gannis wrote:
Holy....at around 43.00 mark, they show a series of 300 plus images of a bird flying shot using the C120 fps mode and then ask the YouTube audience to choose any number from 1 to 300 to display the bird image zoomed in to show how effective the AF is...that's ridiculous!!!
Edit: And, that sequence was shot with an f mount glass (120-300 f2.8). so amazing performance with adapted glass.
wow...that was shots 1-420, think the highest number asked was 388 and every one in focus
Interesting information overall, including both Michelle Valberg and Brad Hill find the 500 PF works well for them with TC2 on Z6 II and now Z9.
47:00 > This is indeed a very useful and detailed explanation by Chris Ogonek, Nikon Canada tech expert. As you say, Dual dedicated data channel from CPU with 1. Sensor and 2. EVF. This is a new industry standard. No other MILCs do it this way, apparently.
gannis wrote:
Now, from 52.00 mark they discuss the EVF and explains how their dual stream tech in the EVF makes it so smooth and realistic thereby negating the needs to have an EVF with higher refresh rate.
High-Efficiency RAW* 1 which retains the same level of high image quality as the conventional uncompressed RAW in an approx. 1/3 smaller file size. High-speed continuous shooting at 20 fps for more than 1,000 frames*
it has become a noticeable bullet point for this camera as they threw out the old options. a nikon tech suggested its pretty much what one should be shooting with. i'll sure give it a whirl. all raw convertors be aware there's a new algorithm in town
NonDecaf wrote:
My A9II EVF had a micro jitter when shooting that I noticed from Day 1. To be honest it didn't affect me all that much. But its there. I'll have to run the test on the A1 to see if they've improved.
The dual stream from the image sensor on the Z9 makes a ton of sense to avoid the jitter when taking the shot.
yes it does. running at 60hz should have no effect on it too since there is no parasitic draws on the signal.
We’ll have to compare the Z9 to the a1 to see which of the 2 cameras has the nicer actual EVF for fast action but it’s already clear that:
- Nikon is aware about the importance of this point and designed the whole data architecture of the camera around it,
- the single number “refresh rate” doesn’t tell the whole story. As could have been expected really.
sjms wrote:
High-Efficiency RAW* 1 which retains the same level of high image quality as the conventional uncompressed RAW in an approx. 1/3 smaller file size. High-speed continuous shooting at 20 fps for more than 1,000 frames*
it has become a noticeable bullet point for this camera as they threw out the old options. a nikon tech suggested its pretty much what one should be shooting with. i'll sure give it a whirl. all raw convertors be aware there's a new algorithm in town
I seriously doubt there would be no drop of quality whatsoever. The question is what data they sacrifice and in what cases could this become visible. But still, great to see Nikon using next gen technology for this important aspect also. I assume that Sony and Canon will also adopt this tech in the a1II and R1 in 2023 (my guess of when these 2 camera will show up).
The big question mark is indeed how quickly essential software such as Photomechanic, C1 Pro or DxO will be supporting this new raw format.
Finally I would love Nikon to implement a mode that starts a raw burst in lossless raw for the first x secs and then automatically switches to high efficiency raw to extend the buffer depth. They could call it hybrid raw and it would be selectable among the available raw formats.
This would be the best of both worlds. Ensure that most short bursts are captured at max quality but not risk running out of juice even for longer sequences. The duration x could be input by each owner depending on the speed of the CFExpress card they will be using.
This would also of course optimize memory card usage by reducing the space needed for long bursts.
They probably just need to implement a new hybrid raw burst class deriving from raw burst. There could be a micro drop of capture speed at the moment of the switch though.
Normal : 60 Hz 9.4 million dots (2048 x 1536)
Hi: 120 Hz 5.6 million dots (1600 x 1200)
Hi + : 240 Hz 5.6 million dots (1600 x 1200) 0.8x magnification
normal mode is useless in my experience for shooting at 600mm+ handhold as the image is too choppy. 120 Hz is fast enough for panning but cannot keep up with wing beats (e.g. Forester's tern). 240Hz is what I use all the time.
Nikon's EVF is only 3.69 million dots which is what Sony had 5-7 years ago. After using a higher resolution EVF going back to the low res feels like going back from HD TV to an 80's CRT TV with a VHS tape.. it ain't pretty. I agree with you that refresh rate is more critical than resolution, but because of blackout free technology you can actually see the subject clearly in the finder as you pan and shoot at 30 or 20 fps. In the DSLR days I could not see or even remember what exactly happened during the burst but now I can vividly see closeup details even mid flight.
as for 8K I think you need to read the footprint to see whether it is internal or external recording. to my knowledge there is no flash card that can fit 2 Hrs of 8K video so they are likely talking about external recording which many cameras can do for a very long time. The longest I have shot 8K with my A1 was about 45 min after which my card was full. If I were to shoot the highest quality the card would have filled up in less than 20 min so it was a moot point. Production guys typically use external recording and I don't expect any issues there.
and yeah, everything is TBD and until then there is only paper spec's to entertain.
As far as the Z9 is concerned, I think we will have to wait and see if it is always 60Hz or is it 120Hz, or is 60Hz for stills and low fps and switches to 120Hz at higher frame rates or what. Looking at the various vids there doesn't seem to be any jitter or stutter as you pan following the subject matter. However, real hands on will tell us more.
bernardl wrote:
I seriously doubt there would be no drop of quality whatsoever. The question is what data they sacrifice and in what cases could this become visible. But still, great to see Nikon using next gen technology for this important aspect also. I assume that Sony and Canon will also adopt this tech in the a1II and R1 in 2023 (my guess of when these 2 camera will show up).
The big question mark is indeed how quickly essential software such as Photomechanic, C1 Pro or DxO will be supporting this new raw format.
Finally I would love Nikon to implement a mode that starts a raw burst in lossless raw for the first x secs and then automatically switches to high efficiency raw to extend the buffer depth. They could call it hybrid raw and it would be selectable among the available raw formats.
This would be the best of both worlds. Ensure that most short bursts are captured at max quality but not risk running out of juice even for longer sequences. The duration x could be input by each owner depending on the speed of the CFExpress card they will be using.
This would also of course optimize memory card usage by reducing the space needed for long bursts.
They probably just need to implement a new hybrid raw burst class deriving from raw burst. There could be a micro drop of capture speed at the moment of the switch though....Show more →
I guess we will just have to see now won't we? Its in their best interest to not screw it up.
Interesting tid bits, according to my beta testing friend, Nikon Singapore sent all their Z9 field testers Prograde Cobalt 325gb card and said that this is the card they found the most stable and used it extensively in the factory during developmental phase of Z9.
