bernardl wrote:
It should be exciting time for soccer photographers, in particular for those equipped with Nikon. The ability to crop on a 45mp camera vs a 20mp one should open new possibilities for mid-field action, right? More fps also means better ability to capture the exact moment of a foul or a goal.
Add to that a 400mm f2.8 with built-in TC and you have a pretty unique value proposition I would think. Replace a 400mm f2.8 and 600mm f4 with a single lens. Less cost, less weight, less bulk by the side of the field, much simplified transportation,...
Not to mention video if you need to capture some on assignment. ...Show more →
Eric214 wrote:
I guess your current gear stopped working once the Z9 was announced and that teaser trailer launched. I thought that only happens to iPhone people when Apple launched a new device.
Don't be a dick. Wanting to upgrade from dSLR to top-line mirrorless cameras with advanced AF isn't a concession that your existing gear is broken. It's an acknowledgment that, in certain shooting situations, better gear might make it easier to get more keepers. Pretty simple.
aboutthelight wrote:
I have said this before but worth saying again I think because of these silly brand wars. Although I sold my Nikon gear (D850, 500 PF and 600 F4E) to go fully mirrorless and now shoot Sony (A1 and 600 f4) I have also spent 7 years shooting Canon (1DX, 1DXii, 5Div, 7Dii, 70D and 20D) so think I have a pretty good understanding of the 3 systems. The talk of menus is also silly to me. After a basic pass through the menus I did not find any of them to be in slightest way difficult or bulky. They are different but did not find any better than the other. I actually really like the Sony menu because you can basically just do anything to any button and assign whatever you want where ever you want. Again once you get the hang of it navigating the menus is a piece of cake. What I will say and I really hope that the Z9 is as customizable as the A1 is. Basically being able to assign almost any function to any button makes the menus obsolete. Once you set it up other than formatting your cards there is very little if anything to do in the menus. Like Arbitage wrote, the Nikon menus are basic because there are few options for customization.
About 6 months after I had switched to Nikon I was standing on a hawkwatch and someone did not know how to use the custom functions on their 1dxii. I said here let me do it but then it took me some time to remember the Canon menus because I was so quickly accustomed to the Nikon menus. I feel the same about the Sony menus now. Nothing I can't find or do and it basically feels like 2nd nature.
I had to think long and hard about switching and really hope the Z9 is as customizable as the A1and delivers with typical Nikon colors, image quality and a new and improved auto foucs system. If it is then Nikon shooters will really be in for a treat. I will always leave the option open to switch back to Nikon, but not until they have a camera that is as good or better than the A1 and also a 600F4 that equals the Sony in sharpness, weight and balance. Many of my friends are heavily invested in Nikon so I am really hoping the Z9 delivers. Good luck to all of you that are waiting. ...Show more →
That's because they're not. You can easily customize them too. The A1 menus are actually really good - not better or worse than what's on my Nikon, just different. I will never understand the first-world whining about menus and grip sizes. One can imagine how such people would've dealt with camera ergonomics in the 1960s or 1930s.
You won't complain about grip size till you own a Fuji XT camera and put something like a 16-55 2.8, 50-140 2.8 or a 100-400 on there. The amount of hand cramp that causes actually makes me want to not use those cameras anymore. Arka wrote:
That's because they're not. You can easily customize them too. The A1 menus are actually really good - not better or worse than what's on my Nikon, just different. I will never understand the first-world whining about menus and grip sizes. One can imagine how such people would've dealt with camera ergonomics in the 1960s or 1930s.
Arka wrote:
Wanting to upgrade from dSLR to top-line mirrorless cameras with advanced AF isn't a concession that your existing gear is broken. It's an acknowledgment that, in certain shooting situations, better gear might make it easier to get more keepers. Pretty simple.
When I first got started in digital, I shot basketball, hockey and indoor/night rodeos with strobes...one frame per second.
The noise on the D2H showed at ISO 400 and at 3200, it was terrible.
The D6 is an excellent sports DSLR with 14 frames per second, 20 megapixels, pretty good AF tracking and high ISO performance can't be touched.
It is not broken.
However...the Z9 (hopefully) will be an even better sports camera and I will take that advantage anytime.
Full-time sports photography jobs are few and far between so you have more competition now than ever so why not use the latest technology available.
A Z9 in the hands of a student intern (with some talent) and basic photo skills could potentially deliver some incredible action photos that would turn the head of any sports editor.
That is a reality now for those of us who have been around the block a couple of times.
The difference between the 9 frames per second of the D3 and 14 of the D6 gives so many more options in action sequences.
30 frames per second on the Z9 vs. 14...sign me up!
For what it is worth I spoke to a dealer yesterday who told me that he was told by his Nikon rep that the Z9 will be in extremely short supply for at least a year once it is released. Take that for what it is worth but for those waiting or considering switching brands or whatever you may have to wait quite some time to get one in your hands.
aboutthelight wrote:
For what it is worth I spoke to a dealer yesterday who told me that he was told by his Nikon rep that the Z9 will be in extremely short supply for at least a year once it is released. Take that for what it is worth but for those waiting or considering switching brands or whatever you may have to wait quite some time to get one in your hands.
I'm not sure how that dealer would be able to know the availability of the Z9 a year from now. Probably even Nikon doesn't know this.
Should this prove to be the case I would hope that fellow hobbyists would have the self-control to let working pros acquire the limited supply so that they can make a decent living during these difficult times.
Should this prove to be the case I would hope that fellow hobbyists would have the self-control to let working pros acquire the limited supply so that they can make a decent living during these difficult times.
Arka wrote:
I will never understand the first-world whining about menus and grip sizes. One can imagine how such people would've dealt with camera ergonomics in the 1960s or 1930s.
This is sort of the opposite energy of your other take (which I strongly agree with): "wanting to upgrade...isn't a concession that your existing gear is broken, it's an acknowledgment that...better gear might make [your job] easier."
The ergonomics thing is similar. Yeah, ergonomics used to be worse. But they were worse for *all* cameras. Now, it's been demonstrated how to do it right, and some are simply refusing to learn the lesson (some are doing so intentionally, for "retro" cred). Going with the former, which "might make your job easier," isn't a sign of weakness.
AcuteShadows wrote:
I'm not sure how that dealer would be able to know the availability of the Z9 a year from now. Probably even Nikon doesn't know this.
Well my hot tub dealer tells me there is a 6 to 10 month wait on a hot tub...so maybe there is something to this knowledge.
chez wrote:
Well my hot tub dealer tells me there is a 6 to 10 month wait on a hot tub...so maybe there is something to this knowledge.
Maybe it's an educated guess. Maybe the dealer just wants to discourage people from looking elsewhere. Maybe a dealer who does not want to take risks by stocking up early can offer better prices, for people who are willing and able to wait. I've heard many complaints about things that are supposed to be out of stock and unavailable, but which I can buy and take with me on the spot at a local store about 80 meters away from my door.
AcuteShadows wrote:
Maybe it's an educated guess. Maybe the dealer just wants to discourage people from looking elsewhere. Maybe a dealer who does not want to take risks by stocking up early can offer better prices, for people who are willing and able to wait. I've heard many complaints about things that are supposed to be out of stock and unavailable, but which I can buy and take with me on the spot at a local store about 80 meters away from my door.
Well I waited 6 months for my new fridge. And no I could not get that fridge anywhere else any quicker. I don’t think there is some kind of conspiracy going on here…I think there is truly a hard time getting certain components, especially electronic. My neighbour is an electrician and says it’s the same with components for him.
chez wrote:
Well I waited 6 months for my new fridge. And no I could not get that fridge anywhere else any quicker. I don’t think there is some kind of conspiracy going on here…I think there is truly a hard time getting certain components, especially electronic. My neighbour is an electrician and says it’s the same with components for him.
The 105mm MC and the 70-200mm f/2.8 S seem to be in short supply here as well. Couldn't find any evidence of a shortage of fridges, though.
Lee Saxon wrote:
This is sort of the opposite energy of your other take (which I strongly agree with): "wanting to upgrade...isn't a concession that your existing gear is broken, it's an acknowledgment that...better gear might make [your job] easier."
The ergonomics thing is similar. Yeah, ergonomics used to be worse. But they were worse for *all* cameras. Now, it's been demonstrated how to do it right, and some are simply refusing to learn the lesson (some are doing so intentionally, for "retro" cred). Going with the former, which "might make your job easier," isn't a sign of weakness.
That's an interesting take, and I can see why you could read it that way. But I'd argue that "energy" is consistent between the two posts because (IMO) the ergonomic quibbles are almost always a problem of acquired taste rather than actual capability. It's hard to dispute, for example, that a 30FPS camera with superlative AF offers a sports or wildlife shooter more opportunities to get the "perfect" shot in a moving sequence than a 10FPS or 12FPS camera with inferior AF. On the other hand, how often is it that a menu layout is the thing costing you the shot, particularly when the menus themselves are customizable? I've used so many different cameras, and found all kinds of things about them to be both wonderful and annoying. But it's the rare ergonomic detriment that actually caused me to lose a shot opportunity (well, maybe a few were lost to things like slow startup time or mandatory dark-frame noise subtraction).
One thing that also drives me nuts is that many of the people who complain about Sony are basing their experiences on much older camera iterations (where the menus really weren't customizable), rather than modern incarnations that are really very easy to use and learn. I get that you can prefer one company's solution over others (more power to you!), but I really can't abide criticisms made in bad faith or based on obsolete versions of a camera. It's like if I walked into a Canon forum complaining about the slow startup time of my EOS 10D, or if I started bashing the Nikon Z's AF because the first generation cameras were behind the times on AF-C capability - both things that are very much a relic of the past.
I don't think anyone here went to the Sony forum to complain about Sony. Some Sony missionaries are in the Nikon forum dissing Nikon, and someone mentioned the clunky menu on one of the older Sony bodies.
I now shoot with Nikon z and Sony, including the a9 and a1. The a9 menu is a bit nuts, but the a1 is way better. And yes, the AF on the a1 is many leaps ahead of the z bodies, for fast moving subjects. Still, routinely used features are buried deep .. such as Format. I find the Nikon menu system much simpler and cleaner to navigate. It doesn't cost shots but if Sony folks come to Nikon forum to diss Nikon, they should also be willing to take some criticism. 😅
Arka wrote:
That's an interesting take, and I can see why you could read it that way. But I'd argue that "energy" is consistent between the two posts because (IMO) the ergonomic quibbles are almost always a problem of acquired taste rather than actual capability. It's hard to dispute, for example, that a 30FPS camera with superlative AF offers a sports or wildlife shooter more opportunities to get the "perfect" shot in a moving sequence than a 10FPS or 12FPS camera with inferior AF. On the other hand, how often is it that a menu layout is the thing costing you the shot, particularly when the menus themselves are customizable? I've used so many different cameras, and found all kinds of things about them to be both wonderful and annoying. But it's the rare ergonomic detriment that actually caused me to lose a shot opportunity (well, maybe a few were lost to things like slow startup time or mandatory dark-frame noise subtraction).
One thing that also drives me nuts is that many of the people who complain about Sony are basing their experiences on much older camera iterations (where the menus really weren't customizable), rather than modern incarnations that are really very easy to use and learn. I get that you can prefer one company's solution over others (more power to you!), but I really can't abide criticisms made in bad faith or based on obsolete versions of a camera. It's like if I walked into a Canon forum complaining about the slow startup time of my EOS 10D, or if I started bashing the Nikon Z's AF because the first generation cameras were behind the times on AF-C capability - both things that are very much a relic of the past. ...Show more →
saaketham wrote:
I don't think anyone here went to the Sony forum to complain about Sony. Some Sony missionaries are in the Nikon forum dissing Nikon, and someone mentioned the clunky menu on one of the older Sony bodies.
Except you? There are many posts from you in both the Sony and the Nikon forum where you complain about Sony cameras, and directly diss the abilities of photographers who shoot Sony cameras. No need to link to those posts. You know the things you have said.
Maybe a mirror will be of benefit to you.
saaketham wrote:
Still, routinely used features are buried deep .. such as Format. I find the Nikon menu system much simpler and cleaner to navigate. It doesn't cost shots but if Sony folks come to Nikon forum to diss Nikon, they should also be willing to take some criticism. 😅
Why is your Format menu "buried deep"? It is the First item in the "Media" Menu. Your cards are the storage media in your camera. Very logical, tabbed, and color coded, menu organization. Just a couple clicks away once you learn the menu. I am not talking about memorizing it either. If you understand its logical structure, then everything is easily found with just a few clicks of a button, or even less by touch screen if your prefer. Still, the menu system is designed to be customizable. That is its true strength. Since "Format" is such an often used item, most people I know also put "Format" as the first item in their "My Menu". Then they set this as the default opening position when they push the "menu" button. This makes it just one click away. On top of that, you can set preferences for safety confirmations, and orders of them, or none to further lower the work required to do a format. Everyone can have the way they prefer.
Once again, you complaint exposes a lack of understanding of your equipment rather than a design flaw in the camera.
Looking at the list of cameras you have purchased in recent months it is understandable that your depth of knowledge of any one of them is not deep. I think your a1 was acquired just very recently. I am not sure what you are looking for that drives so many purchases. Your answer may actually lie in depth, not breadth. But maybe that is something worth thinking about.
By the way, that basic structure is common to both the Sony, and Nikon Menu system. No advantage or disadvantage between the systems, except that the Sony system does allow more customization. The Z9 is expected to address that. In the hierarchy of accessibility they both are designed for:
1.) Buttons and Dials ( default, and custom)
2.) The customizable "i" menu
3.) The customizable "My menu"
4.) The full menu
Like you said, if you post opinions based on ignorance of a system, you should also be willing to take some ("criticism") constructive advise on how to address the problem.
Oh, did I once again forget to "diss Nikon" in the Nikon forum? Darn, I just keep addressing the subjects of posts in the thread....
AcuteShadows wrote:
I'm not sure how that dealer would be able to know the availability of the Z9 a year from now. Probably even Nikon doesn't know this.
Probably due to the fact the chip shortage is expected to last through 2022. He is taking that info and that's become his expectation. It's better to under promise and over deliver.
