Nah .. you're 100% wrong, so I won't even bother replying much . I only reply to folks here who diss Nikon.
I don't go to Sony forum to diss Sony or Canon forum to diss Canon. I respect all 3 brands, but don't respect one-sided fanboys.
saaketham wrote:
Nah .. you're 100% wrong, so I won't even bother replying much . I only reply to folks here who diss Nikon.
I don't go to Sony forum to diss Sony or Canon forum to diss Canon. I respect all 3 brands, but don't respect one-sided fanboys.
Couldn't help yourself again. Why not deal with the substance of the post? No diss of Nikon or any brand in it.
Naw, because the substance exposed your lack of knowledge.
I guess this quote of yours upholds this standard then?
saaketham wrote:
And explains why the quality of images posted in that forum is low
saaketham wrote:
I don't think anyone here went to the Sony forum to complain about Sony. Some Sony missionaries are in the Nikon forum dissing Nikon, and someone mentioned the clunky menu on one of the older Sony bodies.
I'm no chronicler of forum history, so I can't refute or agree with that statement.
I now shoot with Nikon z and Sony, including the a9 and a1. The a9 menu is a bit nuts, but the a1 is way better. And yes, the AF on the a1 is many leaps ahead of the z bodies, for fast moving subjects. Still, routinely used features are buried deep .. such as Format. I find the Nikon menu system much simpler and cleaner to navigate. It doesn't cost shots but if Sony folks come to Nikon forum to diss Nikon, they should also be willing to take some criticism. 😅
We shoot Nikon dSLR (D850) and Sony kit (A1, A7R4 - had an A9 earlier for many years). I agree with most of what you say, though I never really found a meaningful difference in "sanity" between Nikon and Sony menu systems - just variations that you had to learn for each camera. And for those situations where commonly used features are deeply nested (e.g., format), you always had the custom menu. Sure, Nikon lets you push two buttons to do the same, but that's not a huge ergonomic plus point in my experience. I can just put any frequently used function in the custom ("star") menu, or map it to one of over five custom buttons. As a result, the Sony ergonomics work out just the way I like 'em. My Nikon D850 has far less scope for interface customization, though perhaps the Z-series has more?
Ergonomic wise, I never had problem with Sony menu. It took awhile to get familiarize with where everything is (having 12-13 years head start with Nikon give Nikon a bit of advantage but Sony continued to add options to make it easier to access frequently use function so
that is fine by me. From software side, the only annoying thing Sony did was to take away the app and never replaced all of those available functions and in case that they did, some of the current functions are not as good as the apps. But certainly using Nikon DSLR side by side with Sony since A7r day all the way to A7r IV, I could go either way on Sony vs Nikon in term of menu. My only complain ergonomic wise is that Sony form factor is just not as comfortable in my hand and after 4 itinerations, beside Nikon Df,Z Fc andn Z50, all the Nikon bodies I own are more comfortable to hold and use for extended periods especially with all the big heavy tele lenses or Otus lenses. Enough that for general every day use and travel, the deficit in term of whatever AF ability is well worth the trade off for the more comfortable body. It was a tough decision between A9 vs D6 and I hope Nikon will put up a good fight to A1 with Z9. It is fun to have choices.
suteetat wrote:
Ergonomic wise, I never had problem with Sony menu. It took awhile to get familiarize with where everything is (having 12-13 years head start with Nikon give Nikon a bit of advantage but Sony continued to add options to make it easier to access frequently use function so that is fine by me. From software side, the only annoying thing Sony did was to take away the app and never replaced all of those available functions and in case that they did, some of the current functions are not as good as the apps. But certainly using Nikon DSLR side by side with Sony since A7r day all the way to A7r IV, I could go either way on Sony vs Nikon in term of menu. My only complain ergonomic wise is that Sony form factor is just not as comfortable in my hand and after 4 itinerations, beside Nikon Df,Z Fc andn Z50, all the Nikon bodies I own are more comfortable to hold and use for extended periods especially with all the big heavy tele lenses or Otus lenses. Enough that for general every day use and travel, the deficit in term of whatever AF ability is well worth the trade off for the more comfortable body. It was a tough decision between A9 vs D6 and I hope Nikon will put up a good fight to A1 with Z9. It is fun to have choices. ...Show more →
I agree with you. It's just a matter of getting used to it. The Sony a1's menu system is far better than the a9's, so that was delightful. Nikon's is still better, I think. And yes, I still enjoy picking up my z7ii or z6ii - they feel better in the hands for some reason. The z9 will be interesting for sure. Any more info from your Nikon contacts?
suteetat wrote:
It was a tough decision between A9 vs D6 and I hope Nikon will put up a good fight to A1 with Z9. It is fun to have choices.
Even among the current Z cameras the AF bashing is no more relevant to the current cameras than the menu bashing on the Sony's that we just saw in this thread is. Ignorant repeating of weaknesses in earlier releases.
Form factor wise It is kind of a Goldilocks thing. For me the a9 was a bit small, and the buttons too low profile, among other form factor issues. I was willing to put up with these for the weight and size advantages.
Even when I was shooting my Nikon D8xx bodies the D6 was just too big and heavy for my needs. I travel a lot. No way this form factor worked for me.
Currently the a1 with a L bracket fits my hand really well, while still being reasonably light. The buttons dials and the rest have all been upgraded as well. When I am going to shoot a lot of verticals, I do add the battery grip. Great in the hand, and convenient, but I wouldn't want to carry it in other circumstances. All in all, I find the a1 fits my preferences "just right".
I expect (hope) that the Z9 will be the match the a1 in pretty much every performance metric. There may be slight advantages for either system around the edges. But essentially parity will have been reached. For me, the integrated grip form factory would not be suitable. For many others, it will be the preference.
We cannot deny that the Nikon brand has fallen into a long slump recently. Suteetat as you know, personally I think the Z9 will be the beginning of the end for that. It will go a long way towards restoring Nikon's well earned and fabled reputation in the camera industry.
Yes, I ended up adding it to My Menu, and it's all good
Tracking birds is mighty impressive and I enjoy shooting with it + 200-600
Still, Nikon Menu is way better and well thought out and I enjoy shooting z7ii for landscapes.
saaketham wrote: Yes, I ended up adding it to My Menu, and it's all good
Tracking birds is mighty impressive and I enjoy shooting with it + 200-600
Still, Nikon Menu is way better and well thought out and I enjoy shooting z7ii for landscapes.
Glad to be a help!
I think the more you delve into the details of the a1 menu and configuration system, the more your will appreciate it's power and flexibility. It can be made to feel like the camera was built just for you. This will show itself in the best shooting experience available currently.
The Z7II is the best FF landscape camera on the market as long as you can shoot it at ISO 64. Great files!
1bwana1 wrote:
Even among the current Z cameras the AF bashing is no more relevant to the current cameras than the menu bashing on the Sony's that we just saw in this thread is. Ignorant repeating of weaknesses in earlier releases.
Form factor wise It is kind of a Goldilocks thing. For me the a9 was a bit small, and the buttons too low profile, among other form factor issues. I was willing to put up with these for the weight and size advantages.
Even when I was shooting my Nikon D8xx bodies the D6 was just too big and heavy for my needs. I travel a lot. No way this form factor worked for me.
Currently the a1 with a L bracket fits my hand really well, while still being reasonably light. The buttons dials and the rest have all been upgraded as well. When I am going to shoot a lot of verticals, I do add the battery grip. Great in the hand, and convenient, but I wouldn't want to carry it in other circumstances. All in all, I find the a1 fits my preferences "just right".
I expect (hope) that the Z9 will be the match the a1 in pretty much every performance metric. There may be slight advantages for either system around the edges. But essentially parity will have been reached. For me, the integrated grip form factory would not be suitable. For many others, it will be the preference.
We cannot deny that the Nikon brand has fallen into a long slump recently. Suteetat as you know, personally I think the Z9 will be the beginning of the end for that. It will go a long way towards restoring Nikon's well earned and fabled reputation in the camera industry.
Form factor is so subjective and definitely will entirely depends on the person. I could see that in the future, smaller form factor and lighter weight will become more and more important as I get older.
Personally I don’t prefer gripped body. In fact, after D2X,, I thought that I would never get gripped body again. I used it mainly for underwater photography and absolutely hated it when I used it during my travel. It was just too big and heavy on land .
As much as I enjoy using D6, I hardly ever used it much outside of wildlife/birds. I pretty much use Z7 ii for everything else which serve me just fine. Z9 being a gripped body will most likely not be my primary camera for everything else either.
Certainly in this respect, A1 could really be the only camera that I need. Kind of strange, Z9 is too big for my daily needs and A1 is a touch too small so my answer for now is Z9 + Z7 ii and Z Fc just because ……
Realistically when I first heard of Z9, it was touted as A9 killer. Sony certainly was being very sneaky and kept A1 a well hidden secret until they launched it. Understandably, Sony probably knew that Canon and Nikon were cooking up something to compete with A9 and did not want to give too much away too soon. Sudden launch of A1 was such a big surprise and by that time, much of the hardware spec was already done by Nikon and Canon. It will be fun to see how much Nikon was anticipating the competitions and see how much they were able to scramble in the last 7 months.
I read that the Z9 may mark the end of a long Nikon slump…
And I just cannot agree. Until the release of the R5 and R6 less than a year ago the offerings of Nikon were superior to Canon’s in both DSLRs and mirrorless.
Yet Nikon’s marketshare was already dropping significantly. Which means that the technogical level has nothing to do with sales success.
The Z9 will most probably bring Nikon back on top of the game in mirrorless technology but photographers must understand that they were never very far behind.
A lot of that is simply the result of the agressive marketing techniques led by Canon and Sony.
suteetat wrote:
A1 could really be the only camera that I need.
Certainly performance wise it is all of us need. Simply amazing in all respects.
suteetat wrote:
A1 is a touch too small
I am 6'4" so I too find the a1 a little short for my hands. But, I always have an "L" bracket on it anyway. I found one that is just the right size, nice and rounded, and with matching covering to the a1 body. With that, it is a perfect fit. Very comfortable even with long lenses, and the "L" bracket provides additional protection for the camera.
As we know, the Z9 is smaller and lighter than the D6, so not as much of a form factor challenge when shooting. Traveling with it is another story....
bernardl wrote:
I read that the Z9 may mark the end of a long Nikon slump…
And I just cannot agree. Until the release of the R5 and R6 less than a year ago the offerings of Nikon were superior to Canon’s in both DSLRs and mirrorless.
Yet Nikon’s marketshare was already dropping significantly. Which means that the technogical level has nothing to do with sales success.
The Z9 will most probably bring Nikon back on top of the game in mirrorless technology but photographers must understand that they were never very far behind.
A lot of that is simply the result of the agressive marketing techniques led by Canon and Sony. ...Show more →
Is this the quote you are speaking of?
"We cannot deny that the Nikon brand has fallen into a long slump recently."
If so, how can you disagree with that statement. It seems like an honest assessment of recent Nikon history.
"We cannot deny that the Nikon brand has fallen into a long slump recently."
If so, how can you disagree with that statement. It seems like an honest assessment of recent Nikon history.
What I am reacting against is the connection you establish btwn the Z9 and this slump.
You are implicitly linking the slump with a technological deficit that would explain it and be addressed by the Z9.
My point is that if there is a slight technological gap it is very recent, only a few months old, and can therefore not be the cause of the slump Nikon is in.
No matter how good Nikon makes a camera they can never outdo Canon in the marketing department. For some people Canon is just synonymous with cameras. bernardl wrote:
I read that the Z9 may mark the end of a long Nikon slump…
And I just cannot agree. Until the release of the R5 and R6 less than a year ago the offerings of Nikon were superior to Canon’s in both DSLRs and mirrorless.
Yet Nikon’s marketshare was already dropping significantly. Which means that the technogical level has nothing to do with sales success.
The Z9 will most probably bring Nikon back on top of the game in mirrorless technology but photographers must understand that they were never very far behind.
A lot of that is simply the result of the agressive marketing techniques led by Canon and Sony. ...Show more →
Extrapolating from the n=2 pattern so far I’d bet on yes. But who knows.
Bigger question is if next week is only teaser #4 or full announcement. Some in the know on this thread believe next week is announcement. I’m still leaning towards a 4 th teaser and Nov announcement the following week.
bernardl wrote:
What I am reacting against is the connection you establish btwn the Z9 and this slump.
You are implicitly linking the slump with a technological deficit that would explain it and be addressed by the Z9.
My point is that if there is a slight technological gap it is very recent, only a few months old, and can therefore not be the cause of the slump Nikon is in.
"We cannot deny that the Nikon brand has fallen into a long slump recently."
Although I thought I was paraphrasing from memory when I posted it, that is actually a direct quote from Nikon's President Mr. Toshikazu Umatate, in Nikon's latest Annual Report. He also linked optimism for the future prospects of the Imaging division directly to the Z9 release and new lenses. I trust he understands the issues far better than you or me.
I would argue that Nikon's technical gap was clearly exposed with the original release of the Z6/Z7 back in 2018. These cameras were well behind the competition in important areas when released. Since cameras take years to develop the deficit surely existed for some time prior to that. In my view that is not a short time, and clearly more than the few months that your post references. Nikon leadership has explicitly acknowledged this previously. They said that they were late in developing mirrorless technology because they didn't believe in it. They acknowledge that this was a mistake.
Mirrorless technology now accounts for nearly 80% if the camera business revenue. When we focus on that (which is the future), Nikon has fallen from a solid and competitive second place in the industry, to seventh place in mirrorless market share. That cannot be ascribed just to marketing failures. To a large extent it accurately reflects a technology deficit in released products. Markets tend to amplify such deficits. Comparing just to similar issues at Canon doesn't account for the broader market. Canon has made up for this in the last year or so, and now has achieved at least parity in mirrorless in many respects. Some areas they actually probably lead. Assuming a great release in the Z9, In a direct comparison to Canon, Nikon's technology can be said to be trailing by less than a year, and about to be at parity at a minimum.
It should be noted I think that when saying that Nikon lags technically in mirrorless, I am speaking of released products. The sum of currently available cameras and lenses. It is not a statement of a deficit of technical abilities within the company. Nikon has a long history of technical excellence and leadership. That base has not diminished. My posts on the subject have always expressed optimism in this. I continue to expect great things from the Z9 release. I expect that many advances will make their way down to other Nikon mirrorless products. Much of that will hopefully be through free firmware updates to existing products. I believe we are the cusp of functional parity between the big three camera manufactures. Choices will be made on small differences and preferences around the edges of technology and implementations. That will be a great thing.
. I only reply to folks here who diss Nikon. 
Yes, I ended up adding it to My Menu, and it's all good