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Voigtlander 28mm f/2 Ultron II Review

retrofocus
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p.13 #1 · p.13 #1 · Voigtlander 28mm f/2 Ultron II Review

naturephoto1 wrote:
If you have unlimited funds and money is no object then maybe you would like to purchase the Leica M 28mm f2 Summicron Asph (new price $4995; used on eBay from about $2900) or the Leica 28mm f2.8 Elmarit Asph (new price made in Germany $2695; made in Portugal $2399; used on eBay from $1700

or $2048). The new Voigtlander new is $899.

+1. Worthwhile mentioning is an often overlooked lens and IMO a bit of a gem in Leica's lens line since not much is out there in reviews about it: The Leica 28/2.8 Elmarit E46 version IV pre-ASPH lens. The ASPH successor version is mostly just smaller in size but doesn't offer much optical performance improvement over the version IV. I was recently fortunate to get my hands on this version IV lens from a friend of mine and paid $1600 in mint condition. This is considering that additional fees/taxes need to be added to used lens ebay prices referred in your example above - actually hard to find the ASPH Elmarit version all together for less than $2K these days. Most used prices climbed close to the one you mentioned as brand new.
I also own the CV 28/2.0 Ultron version I (bought used for $450 several years ago) which has the very similar size and the same weight. My plan is to test both lenses side-by-side.

Jul 19, 2021 at 09:57 AM

naturephoto1
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p.13 #2 · p.13 #2 · Voigtlander 28mm f/2 Ultron II Review

Fred Miranda wrote:
There is something I am still scratching my head regarding Leica and third party M-lenses like Voigtlander's.

All Leica M lenses I've tried so far (35/1.4 lux, 50/1.4 lux, 28/2.8, 90/2.8) perform equally on M and SL bodies. I'm talking pixel peeping on 40/47MP bodies from center to extreme corners. I mean equal performance!

However with Voigtlander lenses, not so much. The CV 28/2 II gets close in performance (Link) but it's still better on the M and the CV 35/1.7 Ultron, CV 50/2 APO and CV 50/1.2 Nokton lenses perform noticeably better on the M. At first I thought that...Show more →

Hi Fred,

As a science experiment at this point, I would cover the 6-bit encoding on all of the lenses with gaffers tape and test the performance of the lenses on the M-10R and the SL bodies.

Rich

Jul 19, 2021 at 10:05 AM

jeffersoncasey
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p.13 #3 · p.13 #3 · Voigtlander 28mm f/2 Ultron II Review

naturephoto1 wrote:
Hi Fred,

As a science experiment at this point, I would cover the 6-bit encoding on all of the lenses with gaffers tape and test the performance of the lenses on the M-10R and the SL bodies.

Rich

You can set the lens correction to none in M bodies, which I believe the SL can do that too. Taping something on flange will introduce more problems no?

Jul 19, 2021 at 10:37 AM

mapgraphs
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p.13 #4 · p.13 #4 · Voigtlander 28mm f/2 Ultron II Review

Jul 19, 2021 at 11:21 AM

LarsHP
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p.13 #5 · p.13 #5 · Voigtlander 28mm f/2 Ultron II Review

I think Chris Chu (link with video on page 12) and many others around the world seem to overestimate Leica lenses just because they are super pricey. "You get what you pay for" seems to underlie everything, but in my opinion that's (un)luckily not the case - particularly regarding Leica equipment.

The infinity test FM did here shows that the 28mm Ultron II has extraordinarily sharp corners wide open. I notice that in the Chris Chu review, he seems to primarily use film to evaluate corner sharpness. I saw no reliable test images for corner sharpness in his video.

In the other video review that was linked to recently in this thread here, Benj Haisch made a side by side comparison with the Summicron-M Asph II and his tests show that the Ultron II is sharper than the current (and more than 5x $$$) Summicron in both center and corners wide open. OTOH, the Leica has less vignetting, which is seen in both bokeh and exposure towards the sides and corners.

Jul 19, 2021 at 11:24 AM

naturephoto1
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p.13 #6 · p.13 #6 · Voigtlander 28mm f/2 Ultron II Review

LarsHP wrote:
I think Chris Chu (link with video on page 12) and many others around the world seem to overestimate Leica lenses just because they are super pricey. "You get what you pay for" seems to underlie everything, but in my opinion that's (un)luckily not the case - particularly regarding Leica equipment.

The infinity test FM did here shows that the 28mm Ultron II has extraordinarily sharp corners wide open. I notice that in the Chris Chu review, he seems to primarily use film to evaluate corner sharpness. I saw no reliable test images for corner sharpness in his video.

In the...Show more →

The video from Beni Haisch did not indicate if the camera had the corrections for the lenses were set to on or off. So, we do not know whether the Leica Summicron-M Asph II had any advantage or it was a totally level playing field.

Rich

Jul 19, 2021 at 11:30 AM

LarsHP
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p.13 #7 · p.13 #7 · Voigtlander 28mm f/2 Ultron II Review

naturephoto1 wrote:
The video from Beni Haisch did not indicate if the camera had the corrections for the lenses were set to on or off. So, we do not know whether the Leica Summicron-M Asph II had any advantage or it was a totally level playing field.

Rich

Right, he is asked about it too, but haven't responded yet. However, it is obvious from the bokeh comparison that the Ultron II truncates the bokeh balls in the mid-frame while the Summicron doesn't (much). This indicates that the Ultron does vignette more than the Summicron.

Jul 19, 2021 at 11:37 AM

naturephoto1
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p.13 #8 · p.13 #8 · Voigtlander 28mm f/2 Ultron II Review

LarsHP wrote:
Right, he is asked about it too, but haven't responded yet. However, it is obvious from the bokeh comparison that the Ultron II truncates the bokeh balls in the mid-frame while the Summicron doesn't (much). This indicates that the Ultron does vignette more than the Summicron.

Every lens as we know has its strengths, weaknesses, and issues. So you buy and pick your poison and work with the strengths and try to work around their weaknesses. The vignetting is an easy fix for digital. For me, I will live with the Voigtlander and avoid the cost of the the Leica Summicron M Asph II. And I come from using Leica R cameras and lenses from 1984 to the end of production and beyond. Now I am finally divesting myself of most of my R lenses and some of my M-mount Leica lenses and replacing them with Voigtlander and also a Zeiss ZM lens all being used on my Sony A7r series stock and Kolari Vision modified cameras.

Rich

Jul 19, 2021 at 11:42 AM

LarsHP
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p.13 #9 · p.13 #9 · Voigtlander 28mm f/2 Ultron II Review

naturephoto1 wrote:
Every lens as we know has its strengths, weaknesses, and issues. So you buy and pick your poison and work with the strengths and try to work around their weaknesses. The vignetting is an easy fix for digital. For me, I will live with the Voigtlander and avoid the cost of the the Leica Summicron M Asph II. And I come from using Leica R cameras and lenses from 1984 to the end of production and beyond. Now I am finally divesting myself of most of my R lenses and some of my M-mount Leica WA lenses and replacing them...Show more →

We fully agree that all lenses will have strengths and weaknesses.

Regarding the 28mm Ultron II, it appears that vignetting is its (only?) weak point. The darker corners can easily be lifted in editing, but the cats eye bokeh and deeper DoF in the mid-frame and corners can't (at least not easily).

Looking at the pros and cons, the 28mm Ultron II seems like a stellar lens and a bargain for what it is. I have ordered it myself and might end up selling my Summicron Asph II.

Jul 19, 2021 at 11:52 AM

Fred Miranda
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p.13 #10 · p.13 #10 · Voigtlander 28mm f/2 Ultron II Review

naturephoto1 wrote:
Hi Fred,

As a science experiment at this point, I would cover the 6-bit encoding on all of the lenses with gaffers tape and test the performance of the lenses on the M-10R and the SL bodies.

Yes, it's a great suggestion Rich. I've tried that before and the results are pretty much identical. I find that the the 6-bit coding is great correcting "color vignetting", usually magenta.

Regular vignetting and distortion are corrected in-post and not in-camera.

Regarding the better performance on the SL sensor for Leica lenses (vs Voigtlander), it must be something in their optical design to be more compatible with the micro-lenses array.

Jul 19, 2021 at 04:16 PM

rscheffler
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p.13 #11 · p.13 #11 · Voigtlander 28mm f/2 Ultron II Review

IIRC with lens codes turned on, in addition to color shift correction, M cameras do moderate vignetting intensity, but don't entirely eliminate it. Apparently the intent was for a given lens to have similar vignetting characteristics compared to use on film. I'm not sure if this is still the case with the most recent M cameras. Back in the M9 and maybe M240 days, the amount of vignetting correction was also dependent on ISO - more at lower ISOs, less at higher ISOs...

Jul 20, 2021 at 08:08 AM

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p.13 #12 · p.13 #12 · Voigtlander 28mm f/2 Ultron II Review

New video review from Benj Haisch on the 28mm Ultron II.

Not much new for those who already saw the comparison review, though. It sounds like he will keep his Summicron Asph II even though the Ultron II is sharper.

Jul 20, 2021 at 01:17 PM

highdesertmesa
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p.13 #13 · p.13 #13 · Voigtlander 28mm f/2 Ultron II Review

rscheffler wrote:
IIRC with lens codes turned on, in addition to color shift correction, M cameras do moderate vignetting intensity, but don't entirely eliminate it. Apparently the intent was for a given lens to have similar vignetting characteristics compared to use on film. I'm not sure if this is still the case with the most recent M cameras. Back in the M9 and maybe M240 days, the amount of vignetting correction was also dependent on ISO - more at lower ISOs, less at higher ISOs...

And at least on the M10 variants, vignette correction can be turned off and on separately (called "Shading Correction" in the camera menu). Not sure how long that's been in firmware, though, since the M10 series are my first Ms.

Jul 20, 2021 at 01:33 PM

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p.13 #14 · p.13 #14 · Voigtlander 28mm f/2 Ultron II Review

LarsHP wrote:
It sounds like he will keep his Summicron Asph II even though the Ultron II is sharper.

For me I shoot Leica lens not because of sharpness. I often notice how they capture more in tonal range - from highlights to shadows of the same small area the Leica tend to capture broader range, as if it was shot on camera with lesser dynamic range. With lesser tonal range, it'll look flatter, and adding contrast globally doesn't seem to give the same result of having broader tonal range in the first place. Not that the Voigtlander is a bad lens, but Leica lens always have that extra something I usually feel it than see it, if that even make any sense.

Is that extra something worth that much of extra premiums? It depends. I still have my RX1R and the lens is no question one of the best in the category. It's been collecting dust ever since I got the Leica's, I did pick it up to shoot once in a while and always amazed by the sharpness but it simply doesn't give the same kind of look, not even close.

Jul 20, 2021 at 01:48 PM

highdesertmesa
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p.13 #15 · p.13 #15 · Voigtlander 28mm f/2 Ultron II Review

LarsHP wrote:
New video review from Benj Haisch on the 28mm Ultron II.

Not much new for those who already saw the comparison review, though. It sounds like he will keep his Summicron Asph II even though the Ultron II is sharper.

He mentions he wishes there was a detent at 0.7m so he could know by feel when he's reached the MFD of the rangefinder. However, it's worth noting: the Voigtlanders I have that focus to 50cm work with the M10 rangefinder until 0.6m before they disengage – so a bit of bonus rangefinder functionality of 0.1m.

If needing to use the rangefinder near MFD on a CV 50cm MFD lens, I rack focus to MFD, then move the lens toward infinity until I see the rangefinder patch move, which tells me it's engaged and I'm ok to rangefinder focus.

Jul 20, 2021 at 01:50 PM

LarsHP
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p.13 #16 · p.13 #16 · Voigtlander 28mm f/2 Ultron II Review

jeffersoncasey wrote:
For me I shoot Leica lens not because of sharpness. I often notice how they capture more in tonal range - from highlights to shadows of the same small area the Leica tend to capture broader range, as if it was shot on camera with lesser dynamic range. With lesser tonal range, it'll look flatter, and adding contrast globally doesn't seem to give the same result of having broader tonal range in the first place. Not that the Voigtlander is a bad lens, but Leica lens always have that extra something I usually feel it than see it, if that...Show more →

The difference in rendering that comes from less vignetting may very well explain why (or if) he chooses to keep the Summicron Asph II. That's what I am thinking about myself regarding these two lenses. If the lens one has is sharp enough wide open, an even sharper lens - that somehow behaves less well in other ways - will not be an upgrade for many.

Jul 20, 2021 at 02:22 PM

LarsHP
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p.13 #17 · p.13 #17 · Voigtlander 28mm f/2 Ultron II Review

highdesertmesa wrote:
He mentions he wishes there was a detent at 0.7m so he could know by feel when he's reached the MFD of the rangefinder. However, it's worth noting: the Voigtlanders I have that focus to 50cm work with the M10 rangefinder until 0.6m before they disengage – so a bit of bonus rangefinder functionality of 0.1m.

If needing to use the rangefinder near MFD on a CV 50cm MFD lens, I rack focus to MFD, then move the lens toward infinity until I see the rangefinder patch move, which tells me it's engaged and I'm ok to rangefinder focus.

When I had a Leica M4-2 in the analog days, both the 35mm and 50mm Summicron lenses went slightly beyond 0.7m and lost the focus patch. The 21mm Super-Angulon even went to 0.4m. So this is not a Voigtländer versus Leica issue.

On another note, I hope that Leica will make something like the Leica Q with M mount one day... Basically an M camera without the rangefinder, but with IBIS and AF function.

Jul 20, 2021 at 02:28 PM

jeffersoncasey
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p.13 #18 · p.13 #18 · Voigtlander 28mm f/2 Ultron II Review

LarsHP wrote:
The difference in rendering that comes from less vignetting may very well explain why (or if) he chooses to keep the Summicron Asph II. That's what I am thinking about myself regarding these two lenses. If the lens one has is sharp enough wide open, an even sharper lens - that somehow behaves less well in other ways - will not be an upgrade for many.

In Ben's case, I pretty much agreed.

As for the rendering compromise, the V1 cron has poorer corner performance than V2 but here are two examples of what I was talking about, it has some sort of cut out look. First one being close range portrait, second one is a tree trunk between 2-3 meters (window was down).

Jul 20, 2021 at 02:41 PM

MCMXCAD
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p.13 #19 · p.13 #19 · Voigtlander 28mm f/2 Ultron II Review

jeffersoncasey wrote:
In Ben's case, I pretty much agreed.

As for the rendering compromise, the V1 cron has poorer corner performance than V2 but here are two examples of what I was talking about, it has some sort of cut out look. First one being close range portrait, second one is a tree trunk between 2-3 meters (window was down).

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51278400563_a497cdec24_k.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51278405228_ec60ee1ea4_k.jpg

By cut out look, you mean abrupt focus transition? Sometimes it can look 3D, sometimes can look unreal like something has been cut out and pasted as you say.

Jul 20, 2021 at 03:27 PM

jeffersoncasey
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p.13 #20 · p.13 #20 · Voigtlander 28mm f/2 Ultron II Review

That's right, the abrupt focus transition. For a longer lens with large aperture it may or may not be relevant. But for such wide angle it certainly help tremendously. I've seen this very characteristic on the 21lux as well (or was it the 24lux).

MCMXCAD wrote:
By cut out look, you mean abrupt focus transition? Sometimes it can look 3D, sometimes can look unreal like something has been cut out and pasted as you say.

Jul 20, 2021 at 03:33 PM

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