p.1 #2 · Will Nikon build anymore DSLR's, or are they done with DSLR's?
If Nikon is to return to profitability, they should probably invest 100% of their effort in manufacturing gear that matches market demand. There is no competition for the current D6/D850/D500. For those who want DSLRs, these are the best on the market today. Canon has withdrawn from the DSLR market, thus there is no reason to push the limit of DSLR technology since Nikon already produces the best in class. Look at Pentax as a model for a company who has not moved to mirrorless. They have a tiny share of the market, their DSLRs meet the needs of their small group of devoted followers, but nobody talks about investing in the Pentax system.
I fear that if Nikon puts R&D / Manufacturing resources towards their line of DSLRs, they will become the next Pentax. Unlike Nikon, Pentax has the deep pockets of Ricoh to bankroll their losses. Nikon is an optics company, if they cannot sell their optics, they are done. In my humble opinion, Nikon should do what Canon has done. They should close off their DSLR line of cameras, maintain F-mount lens production for non-Z lens equivalents, and speed up the release of Z-mount bodies and lenses.
As I Nikon shooter, I am beginning to worry that their list of future optics and bodies are going to never appear. It has been a long time since they've released a new Z-mount lens, and the promise of the Z9 may not become available for purchase until 2022. Sure, some well connected users will get access to the initial release, but most of us will be waiting quit a while. This gap between announcement and availability is more than enough time to cause current Nikon shooters to second guess Nikon's future (put me on that list). Many devoted Nikon photographers have sold or are considering the sale of their gear to fund a move to a company who has an established mirrorless system. The longer Nikon toils with the DSLR market, the greater the chance they will become Kodak'd.
p.1 #3 · Will Nikon build anymore DSLR's, or are they done with DSLR's?
I did vote that they would make an upgraded D850, but I may have changed my mind on this.
There is probably very little investment and resources needed to build the next D850 as I am sure most of this had already been done before Nikon decided to recently go the "whole hog" into ML. The fact that there are no wildlife type DSLRs going to be manufactured by anyone else, then Nikon have this sector to themselves. It would be an easy sell and they would probably make very good sales and profits from it. Easy money, if you like.
The problem with this is whether Nikon believe (by market research) that any further wildlife type DSLRs would take away from future sales of ML in that category and thus keep those ardent DSLR users from buying into the ML line up. They really need people to switch into the ML system in order to make it viable and making a new upscaled D850 would seriously eat into this market. This is the fine line that they will have to tread.
Personally, I would rather see them forego the D850 upgrade and concentrate on a better ML version of the D850 simply because they need to get ML going and for people to buy into the system. I just think that they would lose too many sales from ML as people stay with DSLRs, especially if the die hard DSLR users think it is the last DSLR that they will make and thus buy it as their last ever camera or at least DSLR. This would further slow down ML sales for the next 5 years or so amking ML an even harder sell. The issue would be that the ML version of the D850 would have to be shown to be way better than any D850. However, if the new ML version of the D850 isn't as good or better than that from Canon or Sony, then we will have more jumping to those two manufacturers. So, Nikon had better make the Z9 and the possible ML version of the D850 work really well!
p.1 #4 · Will Nikon build anymore DSLR's, or are they done with DSLR's?
My expectation is there is a D880 in the pipeline and either ready to release or close to ready.
I've heard in a few places that Nikon has a component issue, most likely on EXPEED6 processors. I expect to see the D880 announced pretty much as soon as the Z7II is available in quantity (rather than just intermittently as it is now), assuming it is component sourcing issues that's limiting the Z7II availability.
I also expect the D880 to essentially be a Z7II in a D850 body with a couple bits of D6. We might see the new EN-EL18 variant launch then to get it in the pipeline for the Z9 (much as the EN-EL15c launched with the Z5 rather than waiting for the Z6II/Z7II)
p.1 #7 · Will Nikon build anymore DSLR's, or are they done with DSLR's?
bs kite wrote:
What are your thoughts?
And what should be more important to Nikon.......
What are your desires?
Starting with my desires:
- I truly wish Nikon will continue to produce dslr's.
My thoughts:
- Nikon doesn't give a rat's bottom as to what its loyal fans (clients) want. Nikon has become a typical company with a "build it and they will come" philosophy. Long gone are the days when Nikon actually listened to its customers. Their typical marketing strategy is to produce a camera that is in their own best interest (in terms of cost of manufacturing) and employ millions of Yen in marketing to convince consumers that their new product is what we need.
I have been a loyal Nikon fan for decades; purchased my first Nikon in 1984. I have spent thousands of dollars over the past few decades on Nikon gear.
In my experience, Nikon stopped listening to its customers after the Nikon F2. When the digital age started, Nikon had the chance to produce a digital rangefinder like Leica did. After all, Nikon's first mass produced film cameras were rangefinders. I still have Nikon S2 rangefinder. Of course, Nikon wasted its time on the Coolpix line and a ton of other cameras no one really took seriously. It made them money, but they missed their mark. Nikon could be king of the mirrorless world (instead of Sony) had it revamped its rangefinder line to make it digital. Yes, it could have been done. Again, Leica did it.
Now all of my old AF-D lenses are virtually useless on the new Z bodies. They will not autofocus despite an adapter. No more "backwards compatibility" for us loyal Nikon fans with a bunch of old lenses.
I still have a D750 with a 16-35mm f4 attached. Luckily I spent another ton of cash on Canon gear within the past 3 years, so I can use all of my "old" EF lenses on their new R bodies; and yes, they are FULLY compatible, AF and all. I am not a Canon fan, but at least Canon didn't screw over its loyal customers as bad as Nikon did.
p.1 #10 · Will Nikon build anymore DSLR's, or are they done with DSLR's?
I voted for both D500 and 850 but looking at all the latest articles about the increase in mirrorless adoption and steep decline in DSLRs, I feel Nikon maybe seriously thinking about their DSLR strategy. Announcing more DSLRs will only slow down Z adoption. I think the Z9 holds the key here. If it truly competes with the A1 ,R1 etc then it makes more sense for Nikon to use the Z9 tech and come up with Z8 and Z500 that will be the mirror less versions of the D850 and D500 respectively.
p.1 #11 · Will Nikon build anymore DSLR's, or are they done with DSLR's?
I currently use the D500, and would not even buy a D500 successor. I see the D500/D850/D6 as the pinnacle of dslr development. The only thing I can think of, is a quieter mirror/shutter assembly on the D850, but granted, I don't care about live view or video on a dslr.
Nikon needs all its resources to catch up and keep up with Sony and Canon in the mirrorless department. Why not simply keep the D500, D850 and D6 in production for the coming years until everyone is ready to make the switch? Canon could not do this, as their 7DII and 5DIV were not compatible and outdated, but the D500 can more than match a Z7II crop for IQ, and the D850 has no weak sides either.
p.1 #12 · Will Nikon build anymore DSLR's, or are they done with DSLR's?
For me, I’m not interested in new DSRL’s. I’m waiting for a Z500.
I think an update for D850/D500 in the same way as the D780 + some D6 AF-sauce/customisation would be a relatively easy update and would give those camera’s another 5 years or so. A lot of people are waiting for the Z-series to mature and don’t want to jump yet.
The development announcement for a Z9 is nice, but that camera will be way too expensive for me (and for a lot of others as well). It will take a few years before that technology will be available for the lower segment.
p.1 #13 · Will Nikon build anymore DSLR's, or are they done with DSLR's?
Maybe even a few months ago I would have voted yes for a D850 replacement but that would be it. I now believe we won't see another DSLR from Nikon.
Watching Steve Perry's livestream yesterday just sort of drove that home for me. Someone who is selling off most of his F glass and said he is done with buying DSLRs...Z-mount and FE mount only for him.
Brad Hill who I also follow has said everything going forward for him will be Z.
Those are just two small sample points (in a single niche of photography) but I think the trend is there. If influencers like those two are done with F-mount and DSLRs, then Nikon is really just going to delay transition to Z mount and selling new, expensive lenses if they try to push out some fancy D880.
Maybe they are so far down the rabbit hole with the D880 that they will release it. But I now think they won't.
All they need to do is just keep producing the D500/850/6 for now....they have the three best DSLRs you can buy. The only other DSLR that even really competes is the 1DXIII and that is niche. For people that want DSLRs they have the best. There is not going to be anymore competition from Canon.
p.1 #14 · Will Nikon build anymore DSLR's, or are they done with DSLR's?
arbitrage wrote:
Maybe even a few months ago I would have voted yes for a D850 replacement but that would be it. I now believe we won't see another DSLR from Nikon.
Watching Steve Perry's livestream yesterday just sort of drove that home for me. Someone who is selling off most of his F glass and said he is done with buying DSLRs...Z-mount and FE mount only for him.
Brad Hill who I also follow has said everything going forward for him will be Z.
Those are just two small sample points (in a single niche of photography) but I think the trend is there. If influencers like those two are done with F-mount and DSLRs, then Nikon is really just going to delay transition to Z mount and selling new, expensive lenses if they try to push out some fancy D880.
Maybe they are so far down the rabbit hole with the D880 that they will release it. But I now think they won't.
All they need to do is just keep producing the D500/850/6 for now....they have the three best DSLRs you can buy. The only other DSLR that even really competes is the 1DXIII and that is niche. For people that want DSLRs they have the best. There is not going to be anymore competition from Canon....Show more →
Comparing the D780 and the D750 (which I both own), I think there is some room for improvement for the D500, and even for the D850. Whether it is enough to justify releasing a successor for those lenses I don't know. If I would get into wildlife photography as a hobbyist, and I would spend, say, 9000 euros on used F mount telephoto lenses, then I would gladly spend the money on a D880 rather than a D850. But this is a niche market, and Nikon does not make any profit from people buying used glass.
p.1 #15 · Will Nikon build anymore DSLR's, or are they done with DSLR's?
yes, there is always the ability to add or refine. but will it give a reasonable return on the investment for both thr designer/builder and the end user.
as it is there is a low percentage of end users that use their current tools capabilities to a high level.
p.1 #16 · Will Nikon build anymore DSLR's, or are they done with DSLR's?
Nikon faces meeting the 3 aims described above:
1. support its unique legacy stakeholders with a D880 at least
2. make its Z system profitable by selling not only Mirrorless cameras but especially lenses. Lens apparently have bigger margins.
3. maintain and grow market share.
Ultimately the company has to maintain a consistent profit and also present a credible long term strategy to investors and equally loyal stakeholders. Many stakeholders are still committed to F mount investments, and finances keep a large number still shooting DSLRs. Are these customers expendable?
Probably, Nikon has no choice but meet all 3 objectives/demands. They've said as much in recent interviews. Obviously, as is utterly obvious, the Z System is their new cash cow, selling to a steadily growing population of Upgraders, and more and more Switchers.
A slower rate of DSLR upgrades will trickle out. This a sound tactic to introduce Mirrorless features integrated into hybrid DSLRs. This trend over past 10 years is clear, especially comparing D500 then D850, last year D780.
The R&D costs of such hybrid DSLRs must be minimal, and increase overall profits from new Z parts/tech plus meetings aim #2 and #3. The current DSLR tech has little if any market competition, notably their D6 AF engine, whose costs are not recovered, considering lowish D6 sales.
The D880 is the logical next release, albeit delayed for all the well known reasons. A D550 will recover more revenue of D6 R&D.
Just 60 years after launching the Nikon F, Nikon has regained its hegemony of the single lens reflex camera. How utterly stupid to throw away this unique status.
p.1 #17 · Will Nikon build anymore DSLR's, or are they done with DSLR's?
To Nikon: Why did you significantly improve LiveView performance in one of your DSLR's (the D780!) , and not do the same in a D850 upgrade? For my needs, that is all you would have needed to do to have a D850 upgrade.
I think there's a consensus that the D850 and its APS-C counterpart, the D500 are the two best DSLR's made to date. Of course this *is* debatable. However, I think most would agree.
But Nikon never finished the D850! It remains incomplete to this day.
The D850 LiveView AF performance is a dinosaur ! It is very loud in video (clickety-clackety) and often hunts and hunts back and forth.
After fighting the focusing nightmare in D850 LiveView for a long time, I finally gave up and went to manual focusing with Focus Peaking (to be fair... Focus Peaking is a very nice feature. ).
Yes, I want Nikon to "knock the Z9 out of the park", not just begin competing with the A1, but at least pull abreast of it. Why not? Within the last 6 months, a Nikon exec said they would concentrate on mirrorless and forego DSLR upgrade "for now". If Nikon does surpass the D6 as flagship and complete the Z lens roadmap, at that time, they should go back and finish upgrading the D850/D500.
p.1 #18 · Will Nikon build anymore DSLR's, or are they done with DSLR's?
chambeshi wrote:
Nikon faces meeting the 3 aims described above:
1. support its unique legacy stakeholders with a D880 at least
2. make its Z system profitable by selling not only Mirrorless cameras but especially lenses. Lens apparently have bigger margins.
3. maintain and grow market share.
Ultimately the company has to maintain a consistent profit and also present a credible long term strategy to investors and equally loyal stakeholders. Many stakeholders are still committed to F mount investments, and finances keep a large number still shooting DSLRs. Are these customers expendable?
Probably, Nikon has no choice but meet all 3 objectives/demands. They've said as much in recent interviews. Obviously, as is utterly obvious, the Z System is their new cash cow, selling to a steadily growing population of Upgraders, and more and more Switchers.
A slower rate of DSLR upgrades will trickle out. This a sound tactic to introduce Mirrorless features integrated into hybrid DSLRs. This trend over past 10 years is clear, especially comparing D500 then D850, last year D780.
The R&D costs of such hybrid DSLRs must be minimal, and increase overall profits from new Z parts/tech plus meetings aim #2 and #3. The current DSLR tech has little if any market competition, notably their D6 AF engine, whose costs are not recovered, considering lowish D6 sales.
The D880 is the logical next release, albeit delayed for all the well known reasons. A D550 will recover more revenue of D6 R&D.
Just 60 years after launching the Nikon F, Nikon has regained its hegemony of the single lens reflex camera. How utterly stupid to throw away this unique status. ...Show more →
Thank you
I hope/believe that your characterization is about what will happen in the long run. If they have the will, they can do it.
p.1 #19 · Will Nikon build anymore DSLR's, or are they done with DSLR's?
sjms wrote:
Evidently at this particular point in time more then a few thought that too. But it seems to be not just yet.
I was kidding.....all this drama is hilarious.
DSLRs aren't going anywhere any time soon and neither is Nikon.
Everyone should chill out about Nikon and go make pictures.
p.1 #20 · Will Nikon build anymore DSLR's, or are they done with DSLR's?
Panorascal wrote:
I was kidding.....all this drama is hilarious.
DSLRs aren't going anywhere any time soon and neither is Nikon.
Everyone should chill out about Nikon and go make pictures.
No you were not!!!
Just kidding.
I thought you were kidding in that first post and had a notion to press "Like".
You're right, I need to get out to that estuary this afternoon even though the lighting is not optimal. Thanks for the input
). 
