fredmiranda.com
Login

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Sony Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              37              39              59       60       end
  

Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review

  
 
vjbelle15
Offline

Upload & Sell: On
p.38 #1 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review


I set up my lens align to check for focus shift. Everything was perfectly level with the camera about 4 feet from the target. There was a very slight back bias - so slight that it would never affect any image that I would take. Contrast this to my Leica 90mm Asph which I use for that focal length on my 7RM4 and anything that is focused at f2 and shot at f5.6 will be VERY noticeably out of focus. It is mandatory to focus at shooting aperture with the Leica.

If Sony ever provides in camera focus stacking I will be forced to purchase AF version lenses to take advantage of that automated feature.

Victor B.



Jun 25, 2021 at 06:52 AM
Peire
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.38 #2 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review


A7R2+Voigtlander Apo Lanthar 35/2





















Jun 26, 2021 at 06:36 AM
Montymonkey
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.38 #3 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review


Hi, does anyone know how well this lens performs on an infrared converted camera? Thanks


Jun 30, 2021 at 08:52 PM
gyoung143
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.38 #4 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review




Petegh wrote:
Firstly, most probably don't know that Lloyd suffers from presbyopia (farsightedness); combine this with the normal age-related decline in vision by your mid-fifties, means that in poorer light, he needs to focus wide open to get accurate focus.

Secondly, there only is ever one plane in actual focus in a 3D image, the rest of the image is out of focus to some degree - the acceptable extent to which depends on how fussy the shooter is, how big you intend to print etc. So, having your main subject intersect with that single plane of actual focus can matter in large
...Show more
The depth of field 'illusion' assumes that an image is viewed at 'normal viewing distance', which is usually taken to be that which allowws you to see the whole 'picture'. Thus a larger print is viewed from further away, and print size is not relevant. If you peer moore closely at part of the image the 'illusion' is lost.
You cannot'see what is included in DoF' by focussing stopped down as there is no real way of assesing how much unsharpness is acceptable by looking at a magnified view. So for a lens that doesn't have focus shift you should focus at full aperture on your most important point of sharp focus required, and accept the calculations that have stood the test of time for many many decades.
Having used Leica all my life for film, I avoided like the plague lenses with focus shift as they didn’t seem to me to be compatible with the ideals of an optical rangefinder. Even with magnified live view I cant be bothered to try and cope with it, nor those problems encountered with field curvature, whether induced or an original design 'feature'. But the search for lenses that WILL perform well in this regard on a sensor stack with a thick cover glass has shown it's simplest to stick with lenses designed for it, assuming that the designer knew what they were doing, which hasn't always been evident!

Gerry



Jul 01, 2021 at 01:21 AM
Gunzorro
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.38 #5 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review


Tora_2097 wrote:
Summary: Well, there are no surprises here really. The 35mm APO is the superior lens from a technical standpoint. Zeiss made it a bit too easy for themselves when they adapted the old Biogon design from yesteryear.
It is not without advantages though. It is a lot cheaper these days, a bit smaller, has less cat-eye shaped bokeh and shows sunstars at any aperture smaller than f2.5.
I will sell mine off though, and keep the CV, it can play the roles I used my Loxia for with ease, and then also make new use cases viable. It's going to be
...Show more

Great results, Ben! Thanks so much.

Looks like a very fair comparison.

I can certainly see the advantages of the CV 35 over the Loxia in the areas you mention. But I'm pleased with your (and Fred's) assessment that the Loxia isn't that far behind on an overall basis when stopped down to f/4 and smaller apertures. I normally shoot the Loxia at f/5.6 to f/11, and would be hard pressed to find any significant improvements from the CV, even in the mid-field.

I think I'll concentrate, for now, on an AF 35 that might provide similar (or close) results, and keep the Loxia as my go-to MF 35.

Still, the CV 35 APO is very attractive!

I think my best bet is to keep my Loxia 35 for now, and hope CV comes out with a 28/2 APO to replace my Zeiss ZE 28/2. That is a bigger hole for me, and I don't want to fill it with the huge Sigma 28/1.4 Art.



Jul 06, 2021 at 11:55 AM
zugzwang2
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.38 #6 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review


Jack Takahashi compared the Voigtlander 35mm APO to his Leica Summilux FLE on the Leica M10. Takahashi prefers the Leica lens (which is faster, lighter, and small enough so that it minimally blocks his viewfinder), but he notes, and his examples show, that the Voigtlander is sharper than the Leica at f/2. He wrote, "The Voigtlander 35 APO is the highest resolution 35mm M-mount lens I’ve ever used." (Note that he has used the Zeiss ZM 35mm f/1.4, which seems quite excellent, corner to corner, on the M10.)

https://jacktaka.com/voigtlander-35mm-f2-apo

In his review of the Summilux FLE, Takahashi noted that it sometimes produces outlining around specular highlights, just as the Voigtlander can: "The 35 FLE’s bokeh is not as clinically perfect as some other lenses like the Zeiss 35/1.4 or the Voigtlander 35/2 APO. The 35 FLE sometimes produces soap-bubble bokeh in the background, which adds contrasty edges to out-of-focus regions and can make them look harsh. There’s also a small amount of green-magenta longitudinal CA, or spherochromatism."

https://jacktaka.com/leica-35mm-f14-summilux-fle

Takahashi also commented on focus shift like that Lloyd saw with the Voigtlander: "The 35 FLE is not completely free of focus shift. If you look closely at the above sharpness test, the point of focus moves slightly rearward at f/2.8. Fortunately, the shift is too small to make photos visibly out of focus or unsharp. Although this isn’t perfect, it’s a big improvement over the pre-FLE version which was visibly out of focus at f/2.8 and even f/4."

Meanwhile, Lloyd "moderated" his view of the Voigtlander's focus shift: "When focused properly, the Voigtlander FE 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar has no competition at 35mm and it trounces even fine lenses like the Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM at f/2 and f/2.8 for across-the-frame sharpness." (I suppose that a slight focus adjustment--such as focusing at f/2 at the near limit of what you want to be in focus before changing to the taking aperture--is what he means; perhaps someone with a paid account at his site could fill us in.)



Jul 08, 2021 at 11:14 AM
philip_pj
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.38 #7 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review


It takes time for many to work through their checklist of potential causes for dismissal. You can generally tell by them resorting to ever more outlandish criticisms.

The acceptance process is made harder for low volume lenses with no real mainstream brand recognition, as shown by the cottage industry character of many reviews of them. Eventually, even those with preconceived biases grudgingly accept that a certain lens is indeed very good.

The elevation of competing Leica M lenses to near sacred status just makes these things a little more difficult to accept, so we see even more in-depth examinations are needed before approval can be granted. Let it run its course.



Jul 08, 2021 at 05:49 PM
Montymonkey
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.38 #8 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review


Is anyone aware of a Sony e mount 28mm voigtlander lens in the pipeline? I cant see anything online but hoped that someone may know of any rumours if any. The amount of "likes" it gets online whenever I see anyone mention how good it would be makes me wonder if voigtlander had noticed! Just incase anyone knows 😉


Jul 15, 2021 at 01:59 PM
MARKFER
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.38 #9 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review


I am so tempted to get the 35apo. I loved the 65 apo when I had it. The clarity and sharpness and colors are amazing. The issue is the bokeh. It's harsh or just as sharp as the focal point. It's a compromise. The 35 gm interests me as well. It doesn't quite have that in your face clarity, but it softly transitions to out of focus. Difficult decision.


Jul 15, 2021 at 02:37 PM
Fred Miranda
Offline
Admin
Upload & Sell: On
p.38 #10 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review


MARKFER wrote:
I am so tempted to get the 35apo. I loved the 65 apo when I had it. The clarity and sharpness and colors are amazing. The issue is the bokeh. It's harsh or just as sharp as the focal point. It's a compromise. The 35 gm interests me as well. It doesn't quite have that in your face clarity, but it softly transitions to out of focus. Difficult decision.


I think it's difficult to design a compact lens that is so close to perfection in terms of resolution/contrast and color error correction with very pleasant rendering. One of the compromises for such high MTF performance will be a harsher transition zone and that's the case with the 65/2 APO as well. (Somehow the CV 50/2 APO has the best balance imo)

The CV 35/2 APO still manages to have smoother rendering than the 35/2 Ultron (see comparison on this thread), but it's not quite as good as the 35/1.7's in terms of draw. Of course this is all subjective.

The benefit is higher resolution off-axis and minimal CA in a compact design.

Bigger lenses like the Otus line and Leica SL primes are able to combine high performance with pleasant rendering but they are much bigger lenses.



Jul 16, 2021 at 02:06 PM
 


Search in Used Dept. 

Steve Spencer
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.38 #11 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review


Fred Miranda wrote:
I think it's difficult to design a compact lens that is so close to perfection in terms of resolution/contrast and color error correction with very pleasant rendering. One of the compromises for such high MTF performance will be a harsher transition zone and that's the case with the 65/2 APO as well. (Somehow the CV 50/2 APO has the best balance imo)

The CV 35/2 APO still manages to have smoother rendering than the 35/2 Ultron (see comparison on this thread), but it's not quite as good as the 35/1.7's in terms of draw. Of course this is all subjective.

The
...Show more

From examples it seems that the new Leica M 35 f/2 APO also pulls off the high resolution/contrast with no aberration and a nice rendering as well and in a very small size, but then it costs over $8,000. For now I am very happy with my Voigtlander 35 f/1.7 that is so nicely balanced and does everything quite well even if it doesn't lead the pack at anything. Oh, and I got it new from Cameraquest for less than $700.



Jul 16, 2021 at 02:28 PM
Fred Miranda
Offline
Admin
Upload & Sell: On
p.38 #12 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review


Steve Spencer wrote:
From examples it seems that the new Leica M 35 f/2 APO also pulls off the high resolution/contrast with no aberration and a nice rendering as well and in a very small size, but then it costs over $8,000. For now I am very happy with my Voigtlander 35 f/1.7 that is so nicely balanced and does everything quite well even if it doesn't lead the pack at anything. Oh, and I got it new from Cameraquest for less than $700.


It's still in my plan to test those side by side. (CV 35/2 APO vs Leica 35/2 APO). Also their 50 APO lenses.



Jul 16, 2021 at 02:33 PM
philip_pj
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.38 #13 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review


It takes time to learn new lenses, and these are not just new in release dates but also in the performance gains they bring. People might recalibrate their views in time. I agree with many earlier thread posters that the 35/2 APO from CV has very well-formed bokeh, more than acceptable for real world imagery in a more expansive, multi-purpose lens.

Comments refer to the E version. It is a quite different lens in some key respects.
They include stronger wide aperture IQ, length, width, weight, AOV and MFD. It's probably the lens they wanted to make for M users, but had to trade off a little for the more suitable size/weight dimensions for the RF cameras in the VM version.

Montymonkey, 'NO' and 'not so far' are the answers. Time passes by, opportunities are lost. They could certainly make an absolute corker 28/2 based on the differences seen in the 35/2 E-VM pair, couldn't they?



Jul 16, 2021 at 07:09 PM
zugzwang2
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.38 #14 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review


MARKFER wrote:
I am so tempted to get the 35apo. . . . The issue is the bokeh.


Voigtlander got so much so right with this lens that I'm willing to adjust my use of it to play to its strengths. Both the 35 and the slightly older 50mm APO-Lanthar are terrific for [my] landscape use, but, because Voigtlander got essentially everything right with the 50mm APO-Lanthar, I find the 50 to be more generally useful.




Jul 16, 2021 at 08:29 PM
highdesertmesa
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.38 #15 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review


zugzwang2 wrote:
Jack Takahashi compared the Voigtlander 35mm APO to his Leica Summilux FLE on the Leica M10. Takahashi prefers the Leica lens (which is faster, lighter, and small enough so that it minimally blocks his viewfinder), but he notes, and his examples show, that the Voigtlander is sharper than the Leica at f/2. He wrote, "The Voigtlander 35 APO is the highest resolution 35mm M-mount lens I’ve ever used." (Note that he has used the Zeiss ZM 35mm f/1.4, which seems quite excellent, corner to corner, on the M10.)

https://jacktaka.com/voigtlander-35mm-f2-apo

In his review of the Summilux FLE, Takahashi noted that it sometimes produces
...Show more

Lloyd has not reviewed the CV 35 APO in the Leica section of his paid reviews. His CV section for M only consists of three reviews: a very short look at the 21 1.8 (old design replaced by 21 1.4), a review of the 35 1.2 II (old design replaced by v. III), and a review of the 50 1.1 (also an old design). So whatever work he has done with the M version of the CV 35 APO has been limited.

Maybe he has more on the CV 35 APO in the Sony section, but I've never subscribed to that.



Jul 16, 2021 at 10:09 PM
highdesertmesa
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.38 #16 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review


philip_pj wrote:
...Comments refer to the E version. It is a quite different lens in some key respects.
They include stronger wide aperture IQ, length, width, weight, AOV and MFD. It's probably the lens they wanted to make for M users, but had to trade off a little for the more suitable size/weight dimensions for the RF cameras in the VM version...


The M versions of the CV APOs have to accommodate how Leica designed the M sensor microlenses to accept very steep ray angles for wide angle lenses so close to the sensor. I haven't seen it shown that the E version has better IQ wide open – you're probably thinking of M and E versions compared on a Sony sensor. On the M10-R / M10M, the CV 35 and 50 APOs are stunning – small medium format IQ across the frame.



Jul 16, 2021 at 10:20 PM
philip_pj
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.38 #17 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review


Below are the two relevant MTF charts from the maker, Cosina. We can see two patterns at f2 here: (i) the roughly 5% advantage the E has over the M on axis, for the very important 30lpmm and 40lpmm performance measures; and (ii) the different track (albeit similar overall) taken across the frame by each lens. The differential remains at f4, in muted form (not shown, but see links if interested). The two 50/2 APOs show the same pattern, and around the same differential in performance at f2.

No camera sensor was involved in these charts unlike, say, the popular Imatest procedures. The lenses are mounted directly on an MTF device, probably of Zeiss manufacture. My point is that the two lenses are sufficiently different that we cannot necessarily extrapolate from one to the other in their images' bokeh, and as you suggest, we can add sensor differences to the mix as well as additional potentially contributing factors.

VM: http://www.cosina.co.jp/seihin/voigtlander/vm-mount/vm-apo-35mmf2/index.html
VE: http://www.cosina.co.jp/seihin/voigtlander/e-mount/e-35mmf2/index.html
(scroll down to bottom left of sheet in both pages)





VM 35/2 APO at f2 - note levels of two bottom line pairs







VE 35/2 APO at f2 - note levels of two bottom line pairs




Jul 17, 2021 at 08:01 PM
Fred Miranda
Offline
Admin
Upload & Sell: On
p.38 #18 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review


philip_pj wrote:
Below are the two relevant MTF charts from the maker, Cosina. We can see two patterns at f2 here: (i) the roughly 5% advantage the E has over the M on axis, for the very important 30lpmm and 40lpmm performance measures; and (ii) the different track (albeit similar overall) taken across the frame by each lens. The differential remains at f4, in muted form (not shown, but see links if interested). The two 50/2 APOs show the same pattern, and around the same differential in performance at f2.

No camera sensor was involved in these charts unlike, say, the popular
...Show more

Here is a Leica 50/1.4 Lux vs Voigtlander 50/1.2 Nokton vs Voigtlander 50/2 APO comparison:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1707236



Jul 17, 2021 at 09:02 PM
highdesertmesa
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.38 #19 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review


philip_pj wrote:
Below are the two relevant MTF charts from the maker, Cosina. We can see two patterns at f2 here: (i) the roughly 5% advantage the E has over the M on axis, for the very important 30lpmm and 40lpmm performance measures; and (ii) the different track (albeit similar overall) taken across the frame by each lens. The differential remains at f4, in muted form (not shown, but see links if interested). The two 50/2 APOs show the same pattern, and around the same differential in performance at f2.

No camera sensor was involved in these charts unlike, say, the popular
...Show more

If Cosina says the E is X-amount better, then there’s the final word. But that doesn’t mean you can also extrapolate that there is a difference in bokeh. We’d need side-by-side tests of E versus M.



Jul 17, 2021 at 09:32 PM
philip_pj
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.38 #20 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review


'We’d need side-by-side tests of E versus M.'

They've snookered us, it's one thing we can't validate if two different systems are used, or if we use one not on its native mount, because other factors are involved. You can only compare the combinations.

I simply said there were differences in many aspects. The differences make it reasonable to think that aspects of imaging will differ, including bokeh. Some will believe they are optically identical and will equate them in reviews and comments, which is incorrect. The APO series began with Sony, not Leica.

I at least am reluctant to buy the 'poor bokeh' from reports based on another lens/sensor/mount, when I see something quite different, and so do other VE users. This post resides in the Sony forum, so Sony users might benefit from knowing this.



Jul 17, 2021 at 10:55 PM
1       2       3              37              39              59       60       end






FM Forums | Sony Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              37              39              59       60       end
    
 

Welcome back
Log in to your account