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Archive 2021Sony A1 - Bird Photography Camera for Dummies
p.2 #1Sony A1 - Bird Photography Camera for Dummies
Agreed! Which is why, to me, the "flycatcher #3" image above is the most interesting and expressive.
Mar 11, 2021 at 09:52 AM
p.2 #2Sony A1 - Bird Photography Camera for Dummies
baltmin wrote:
Could you estimate what the keeper rate is compared to a9?
This could be calculated in 2 ways, given the different fps of the two cameras.
a) Actual keeper rate = frames in focus/total frames
b) Keeper rate per second
Even if "a" is lower in a1 compared to a9/a9II, "b" can be still higher due to 30fps.
I hope both a) and b) are higher in a1 though
I am being frank with you, I haven’t used the 30 FPS setting. I don’t know the answer to your question. Not a direct comparison, but so far, my keeper rate is APPROXIMATELY the same as that of the A9 II. Like I mentioned in my original post, I have been happy with the AF performance of the A9 II, I just felt a little pixel-starved with that body. For my cases, between 10 and 15 would be fine. Maybe Geoff @arbitrage would be able to answer your question over the weekend since he would be shooting some swallows catching bugs, I understood.
Could you estimate what the keeper rate is compared to a9?
This could be calculated in 2 ways, given the different fps of the two cameras.
a) Actual keeper rate = frames in focus/total frames
b) Keeper rate per second
Even if "a" is lower in a1 compared to a9/a9II, "b" can be still higher due to 30fps.
I hope both a) and b) are higher in a1 though
I am being frank with you, I haven’t used the 30 FPS setting. I don’t know the answer to your question. Not a direct comparison, but so far, my keeper rate is APPROXIMATELY the same as that of the A9 II. Like I mentioned in my original post, I have been happy with the AF performance of the A9 II, I just felt a little pixel-starved
with that body. For my cases, between 10 and 15 would be fine. Maybe Geoff @arbitrage would be able to answer your question over the weekend since he would be shooting some swallows catching bugs, I understood.Mar 11, 2021 at 10:10 AM
p.2 #3Sony A1 - Bird Photography Camera for Dummies
After being out for 2 hrs now all I can say is either Tony Northrup is an idiot or Sony tweaked the BEAF pre production FW.
This BEAF is every bit as good as the R5. It is picking up eyes on everything I point it at. Even speedy buffleheads in flight.
This BEAF is every bit as good as the R5. It is picking up eyes on everything I point it at. Even speedy buffleheads in flight.
Mar 11, 2021 at 10:21 AM
p.2 #4Sony A1 - Bird Photography Camera for Dummies
arbitrage wrote:
After being out for 2 hrs now all I can say is either Tony Northrup is an idiot or Sony tweaked the BEAF pre production FW.
This BEAF is every bit as good as the R5. It is picking up eyes on everything I point it at. Even speedy buffleheads in flight.
Great to hear. I mean, I will never use it for BIF, but it is great to see my impressions regarding the performance for other types of photography being extended to BIF.
After being out for 2 hrs now all I can say is either Tony Northrup is an idiot or Sony tweaked the BEAF pre production FW.
This BEAF is every bit as good as the R5. It is picking up eyes on everything I point it at. Even speedy buffleheads in flight.
Great to hear. I mean, I will never use it for BIF, but it is great to see my impressions regarding the performance for other types of photography being extended to BIF.
Mar 11, 2021 at 10:24 AM
p.2 #5Sony A1 - Bird Photography Camera for Dummies
arbitrage wrote:
After being out for 2 hrs now all I can say is either Tony Northrup is an idiot or Sony tweaked the BEAF pre production FW.
This BEAF is every bit as good as the R5. It is picking up eyes on everything I point it at. Even speedy buffleheads in flight.
Ha, I am not imagining things then
. I believe I read or heard Alex say that the FW of his pre-production was upgraded in the later part of the evaluation period. So, I tend to believe the later to be honest. Not a friend of TN but not a hater either.
After being out for 2 hrs now all I can say is either Tony Northrup is an idiot or Sony tweaked the BEAF pre production FW.
This BEAF is every bit as good as the R5. It is picking up eyes on everything I point it at. Even speedy buffleheads in flight.
Ha, I am not imagining things then
. I believe I read or heard Alex say that the FW of his pre-production was upgraded in the later part of the evaluation period. So, I tend to believe the later to be honest. Not a friend of TN but not a hater either.Mar 11, 2021 at 11:15 AM
p.2 #6Sony A1 - Bird Photography Camera for Dummies
Joshua/Geoff - congrats on the new camera.
I'm interested to know how well BEAF works with RTT.
I tend not to use RTT on the A9II for several reasons. There is a delay during focus acquisition before the tracking box locks on and this is just too long for fast subjects. Also, I find there are usually more soft shots in a burst when using RTT than if I just used vanilla Zone or Wide. Finally, when I've tried to initiate tracking of the bird on the post ready for when the bird takes off (re Galer), invariably, the tracking sticks to the post while the bird flies off.
However, I could see the A1 potentially being able to overcome these problems.
Can its increased processing power make the initial RTT focus acquisition fast enough for speedy subjects?
Do the extra AF calculations make RTT accuracy better with fewer soft shots?
And most importantly, does BEAF make RTT more intelligent? Re the bird on the post, will it follow the bird? And when the bird is in flight, even if the BEAF is only active occasionally, is the RTT more likely to stay on the bird against a busy background because BEAF updates the tracking subject from time to time?
I appreciate it's early days but I would very much welcome your insights in due course.
I'm interested to know how well BEAF works with RTT.
I tend not to use RTT on the A9II for several reasons. There is a delay during focus acquisition before the tracking box locks on and this is just too long for fast subjects. Also, I find there are usually more soft shots in a burst when using RTT than if I just used vanilla Zone or Wide. Finally, when I've tried to initiate tracking of the bird on the post ready for when the bird takes off (re Galer), invariably, the tracking sticks to the post while the bird flies off.
However, I could see the A1 potentially being able to overcome these problems.
Can its increased processing power make the initial RTT focus acquisition fast enough for speedy subjects?
Do the extra AF calculations make RTT accuracy better with fewer soft shots?
And most importantly, does BEAF make RTT more intelligent? Re the bird on the post, will it follow the bird? And when the bird is in flight, even if the BEAF is only active occasionally, is the RTT more likely to stay on the bird against a busy background because BEAF updates the tracking subject from time to time?
I appreciate it's early days but I would very much welcome your insights in due course.
Mar 11, 2021 at 11:44 AM
p.2 #7Sony A1 - Bird Photography Camera for Dummies
somersettr wrote:
Joshua/Geoff - congrats on the new camera.
I'm interested to know how well BEAF works with RTT.
I tend not to use RTT on the A9II for several reasons. There is a delay during focus acquisition before the tracking box locks on and this is just too long for fast subjects. Also, I find there are usually more soft shots in a burst when using RTT than if I just used vanilla Zone or Wide. Finally, when I've tried to initiate tracking of the bird on the post ready for when the bird takes off (re Galer), invariably, the tracking sticks to...Show more →
Hi Tony, on the A9/A9 II you have 2 cycles/groups of AF-Areas. If you start with the non-tracking version of the cycle, you can scroll down and you end up in the RTT version of the same set, like Wide, Zone, Selectable, etc. And you have to decide whether you want to use the RTT version or not before hand.
Well, that changed with the A1. You only have a single cycle of the AF-Areas and not 2 anymore. If you set the camera to Eye-AF, there 3 selections, Human, Bird and Animal. So far, I have used the BE-AF. Let’s say, I set the camera to Zone-AF, which is my favorite in my other Sony cameras. With that BE-AF mode on, it would pick up the eye of the bird immediately. You can move the camera around or the bird can move, the Eye-AF indicator will stick to the eye and it is sticky. In theory, even if the bird takes off and in flight. So far, so good. In other words, the camera does a great job in doing that. Now, you just have to make sure that you keep the target within the zone you first selected.
Writing this gives me an idea of probably better to use the Wide-AF mode rather than Zone-AF. As you can imagine, it is easier to get and keep the target in a larger rectangle than smaller. I doesn’t make sense to even use any other AF-Area, especially the smaller ones. I will have to try this out tomorrow and report my findings here.
Hope this helps,
Joshua
Joshua/Geoff - congrats on the new camera.
I'm interested to know how well BEAF works with RTT.
I tend not to use RTT on the A9II for several reasons. There is a delay during focus acquisition before the tracking box locks on and this is just too long for fast subjects. Also, I find there are usually more soft shots in a burst when using RTT than if I just used vanilla Zone or Wide. Finally, when I've tried to initiate tracking of the bird on the post ready for when the bird takes off (re Galer), invariably, the tracking sticks to...Show more →
Hi Tony, on the A9/A9 II you have 2 cycles/groups of AF-Areas. If you start with the non-tracking version of the cycle, you can scroll down and you end up in the RTT version of the same set, like Wide, Zone, Selectable, etc. And you have to decide whether you want to use the RTT version or not before hand.
Well, that changed with the A1. You only have a single cycle of the AF-Areas and not 2 anymore. If you set the camera to Eye-AF, there 3 selections, Human, Bird and Animal. So far, I have used the BE-AF. Let’s say, I set the camera to Zone-AF, which is my favorite in my other Sony cameras. With that BE-AF mode on, it would pick up the eye of the bird immediately. You can move the camera around or the bird can move, the Eye-AF indicator will stick to the eye and it is sticky. In theory, even if the bird takes off and in flight. So far, so good. In other words, the camera does a great job in doing that. Now, you just have to make sure that you keep the target within the zone you first selected.
Writing this gives me an idea of probably better to use the Wide-AF mode rather than Zone-AF. As you can imagine, it is easier to get and keep the target in a larger rectangle than smaller. I doesn’t make sense to even use any other AF-Area, especially the smaller ones. I will have to try this out tomorrow and report my findings here.
Hope this helps,
Joshua
Mar 11, 2021 at 12:25 PM
p.2 #8Sony A1 - Bird Photography Camera for Dummies
somersettr wrote:
Joshua/Geoff - congrats on the new camera.
I'm interested to know how well BEAF works with RTT.
I tend not to use RTT on the A9II for several reasons. There is a delay during focus acquisition before the tracking box locks on and this is just too long for fast subjects. Also, I find there are usually more soft shots in a burst when using RTT than if I just used vanilla Zone or Wide. Finally, when I've tried to initiate tracking of the bird on the post ready for when the bird takes off (re Galer), invariably, the tracking sticks to...Show more →
Still too early for me to say. Had to come back to work for the rest of the day. But I have 3 days straight of shooting time starting tomorrow.
I did try RTT more than I usually do this morning. Like you I never had much confidence in it compared to just Zone or Wide for BIF.
Everything is more responsive like AF points showing up, switching into alternative mode via Recall Custom Hold or Recall Reg AF Function.
I'll have a better understanding of RTT by the end of this weekend. I was still tending to go back to Zone and Wide (non-tracking) with BEAF enabled for most of my flight shooting today.
I will say I did find one bird species where the A1 is nowhere near as good as the R5 and that is Black Oystercatcher. It only occasionally recognized the eye (even though it is bright orange on black head) when the Oystercatcher was in perfect side pose with head raised. The R5 can recognize them in all sorts of poses and head dipping etc. But otherwise every other bird worked well except for a fairly distant Cormorant IF. But I mean who cares in that situation, tonnes of DOF to cover it with Zone.
I've now found two things that I consider "broken" on the A1 compared to the A9II/A7RIV/A9. The first is that Tracking On won't switch a Recall Reg AF Function Hold non-tracking AF mode into a RTT mode. The second is when I run my EVF/LCD in pseudo DSLR mode it doesn't show me the exposure changes I'm making at the bottom of the LCD like it does on the previous cameras. That function was my workaround for not having a top LCD. Unless I'm missing some setting...I will investigate further.
Joshua/Geoff - congrats on the new camera.
I'm interested to know how well BEAF works with RTT.
I tend not to use RTT on the A9II for several reasons. There is a delay during focus acquisition before the tracking box locks on and this is just too long for fast subjects. Also, I find there are usually more soft shots in a burst when using RTT than if I just used vanilla Zone or Wide. Finally, when I've tried to initiate tracking of the bird on the post ready for when the bird takes off (re Galer), invariably, the tracking sticks to...Show more →
Still too early for me to say. Had to come back to work for the rest of the day. But I have 3 days straight of shooting time starting tomorrow.
I did try RTT more than I usually do this morning. Like you I never had much confidence in it compared to just Zone or Wide for BIF.
Everything is more responsive like AF points showing up, switching into alternative mode via Recall Custom Hold or Recall Reg AF Function.
I'll have a better understanding of RTT by the end of this weekend. I was still tending to go back to Zone and Wide (non-tracking) with BEAF enabled for most of my flight shooting today.
I will say I did find one bird species where the A1 is nowhere near as good as the R5 and that is Black Oystercatcher. It only occasionally recognized the eye (even though it is bright orange on black head) when the Oystercatcher was in perfect side pose with head raised. The R5 can recognize them in all sorts of poses and head dipping etc. But otherwise every other bird worked well except for a fairly distant Cormorant IF. But I mean who cares in that situation, tonnes of DOF to cover it with Zone.
I've now found two things that I consider "broken" on the A1 compared to the A9II/A7RIV/A9. The first is that Tracking On won't switch a Recall Reg AF Function Hold non-tracking AF mode into a RTT mode. The second is when I run my EVF/LCD in pseudo DSLR mode it doesn't show me the exposure changes I'm making at the bottom of the LCD like it does on the previous cameras. That function was my workaround for not having a top LCD. Unless I'm missing some setting...I will investigate further.
Mar 11, 2021 at 01:09 PM
p.2 #9Sony A1 - Bird Photography Camera for Dummies
Geoff, your setting on the A1 is definitely different than mine, which is perfectly fine, of course. Whatever it takes to get the job done, right?
Mar 11, 2021 at 02:09 PM
p.2 #10Sony A1 - Bird Photography Camera for Dummies
This image is full frame, shot with the A1 + 600GM + 1.4x. When the focus area was wide the eye AF did not work and the camera focused on the branches as much as on the sparrow. However, in zone the eye AF worked perfectly.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51026145173_978ebf1768_o.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51026145173_978ebf1768_o.jpg
Mar 11, 2021 at 02:44 PM
p.2 #11Sony A1 - Bird Photography Camera for Dummies
Hillrg` wrote:
This image is full frame, shot with the A1 + 600GM + 1.4x. When the focus area was wide the eye AF did not work and the camera focused on the branches as much as on the sparrow. However, in zone the eye AF worked perfectly.
Thank you very much, Rory! Your input helps me from missing some potential opportunities tomorrow. I could see that from happening in your image. But, what if the foreground and background are clean though? Just curious...
This image is full frame, shot with the A1 + 600GM + 1.4x. When the focus area was wide the eye AF did not work and the camera focused on the branches as much as on the sparrow. However, in zone the eye AF worked perfectly.
Thank you very much, Rory! Your input helps me from missing some potential opportunities tomorrow. I could see that from happening in your image. But, what if the foreground and background are clean though? Just curious...
Mar 11, 2021 at 02:51 PM
p.2 #12Sony A1 - Bird Photography Camera for Dummies
AGeoJO wrote:
But, what if the foreground and background are clean though? Just curious...
If it was clean I think the wide zone would focus on the sparrow, but I don't know about the eye AF. As Geoff was saying, the A1 is going to need a different setup from what I was shooting with on the a9II.
But, what if the foreground and background are clean though? Just curious...
If it was clean I think the wide zone would focus on the sparrow, but I don't know about the eye AF. As Geoff was saying, the A1 is going to need a different setup from what I was shooting with on the a9II.
Mar 11, 2021 at 02:56 PM
p.2 #14Sony A1 - Bird Photography Camera for Dummies
I tried the 2-6 and with 1.4 TC. I haven’t downloaded my images yet but chimping the EVF looked like focus was right on with the bare lens. By the time I tried the TC I think I was running into heat haze over the water. I’ll need to check those on the computer tonight. My first impression is that there are no A7RIV type issues with the 2-6 on the A1.
JeyB wrote:
Hi Joshua. Did you have the oportunity to mount the 200-600? Any issue related to fron/back focus?
Thanks a lot
JeyB wrote:
Hi Joshua. Did you have the oportunity to mount the 200-600? Any issue related to fron/back focus?
Thanks a lot
Mar 11, 2021 at 03:00 PM
p.2 #15Sony A1 - Bird Photography Camera for Dummies
Real Time Tracking also known as just Tracking in camera. ie Tracking:Zone or Tracking: Flex Spot etc.
k-h.a.w wrote:
RTT?
k-h.a.w wrote:
RTT?
Mar 11, 2021 at 03:01 PM
p.2 #16Sony A1 - Bird Photography Camera for Dummies
Thank you all for sharing your experiences with the A1. I watch with envy as I wait for mine to become available. I am looking forward to the a1 for all the same reasons as Joshua mentioned at the beginning of this thread. For now, my a7R4 will do but I'm so excited by what I see.
Thanks to all of you guinea pigs!
Thanks to all of you guinea pigs!
Mar 11, 2021 at 03:08 PM
p.2 #17Sony A1 - Bird Photography Camera for Dummies
AGeoJO wrote:
I'm interested to know how well BEAF works with RTT.
I tend not to use RTT on the A9II for several reasons. There is a delay during focus acquisition before the tracking box locks on and this is just too long for fast subjects. Also, I find there are usually more soft shots in a burst when using RTT than if I just used vanilla Zone or Wide. Finally, when I've tried to initiate tracking of the bird on the post ready for when the bird takes off (re Galer), invariably, the tracking sticks to the post while the bird flies off.
However, I could see the A1 potentially being able to overcome these problems.
Can its increased processing power make the initial RTT focus acquisition fast enough for speedy subjects?
Do the extra AF calculations make RTT accuracy better with fewer soft shots?
And most importantly, does BEAF make RTT more intelligent? Re the bird on the post, will it follow the bird? And when the bird is in flight, even if the BEAF is only active occasionally, is the RTT more likely to stay on the bird against a busy background because BEAF updates the tracking subject from time to time?
I appreciate it's early days but I would very much welcome your insights in due course.Hi Tony, on the A9/A9 II you have 2 cycles/groups of AF-Areas. If you start with the non-tracking version of the cycle, you can scroll down and you end up in the RTT version of the same set, like Wide, Zone, Selectable, etc. And you have to decide whether you want to use the RTT version or not before hand.
Well, that changed with the A1. You only have a single cycle of the AF-Areas and not 2 anymore. If you set the camera to Eye-AF, there 3 selections, Human, Bird and Animal. So far, I have used the BE-AF....Show more →
Well, this leaves me a bit puzzled.
I think you are implying that if you select Bird as the Eye-AF type, you can only use the ordinary AF areas? The manual - https://helpguide.sony.net/ilc/2040/v1/en/contents/TP0002911172.html - made me think is was roughly the same as the A9II so you could choose say Tracking Zone and have BEAF switched on.
It seems to me that losing the eye if the eye goes out of your AF area could be significant problem, particularly with Zone. As the bird flies closer, the head will naturally move outside of a centred Zone. I had hoped that Tracking Zone might fix that.
Thanks,
Tony
somersettr wrote
Joshua/Geoff - congrats on the new camera.I'm interested to know how well BEAF works with RTT.
I tend not to use RTT on the A9II for several reasons. There is a delay during focus acquisition before the tracking box locks on and this is just too long for fast subjects. Also, I find there are usually more soft shots in a burst when using RTT than if I just used vanilla Zone or Wide. Finally, when I've tried to initiate tracking of the bird on the post ready for when the bird takes off (re Galer), invariably, the tracking sticks to the post while the bird flies off.
However, I could see the A1 potentially being able to overcome these problems.
Can its increased processing power make the initial RTT focus acquisition fast enough for speedy subjects?
Do the extra AF calculations make RTT accuracy better with fewer soft shots?
And most importantly, does BEAF make RTT more intelligent? Re the bird on the post, will it follow the bird? And when the bird is in flight, even if the BEAF is only active occasionally, is the RTT more likely to stay on the bird against a busy background because BEAF updates the tracking subject from time to time?
I appreciate it's early days but I would very much welcome your insights in due course.
Well, that changed with the A1. You only have a single cycle of the AF-Areas and not 2 anymore. If you set the camera to Eye-AF, there 3 selections, Human, Bird and Animal. So far, I have used the BE-AF....Show more →
Well, this leaves me a bit puzzled.
I think you are implying that if you select Bird as the Eye-AF type, you can only use the ordinary AF areas? The manual - https://helpguide.sony.net/ilc/2040/v1/en/contents/TP0002911172.html - made me think is was roughly the same as the A9II so you could choose say Tracking Zone and have BEAF switched on.It seems to me that losing the eye if the eye goes out of your AF area could be significant problem, particularly with Zone. As the bird flies closer, the head will naturally move outside of a centred Zone. I had hoped that Tracking Zone might fix that.
Thanks,
Tony
Mar 12, 2021 at 03:38 AM
p.2 #18Sony A1 - Bird Photography Camera for Dummies
arbitrage wrote:
I'm interested to know how well BEAF works with RTT.
I tend not to use RTT on the A9II for several reasons. There is a delay during focus acquisition before the tracking box locks on and this is just too long for fast subjects. Also, I find there are usually more soft shots in a burst when using RTT than if I just used vanilla Zone or Wide. Finally, when I've tried to initiate tracking of the bird on the post ready for when the bird takes off (re Galer), invariably, the tracking sticks to the post while the bird flies off.
However, I could see the A1 potentially being able to overcome these problems.
Can its increased processing power make the initial RTT focus acquisition fast enough for speedy subjects?
Do the extra AF calculations make RTT accuracy better with fewer soft shots?
And most importantly, does BEAF make RTT more intelligent? Re the bird on the post, will it follow the bird? And when the bird is in flight, even if the BEAF is only active occasionally, is the RTT more likely to stay on the bird against a busy background because BEAF updates the tracking subject from time to time?
I appreciate it's early days but I would very much welcome your insights in due course.Still too early for me to say. Had to come back to work for the rest of the day. But I have 3 days straight of shooting time starting tomorrow.
I did try RTT more than I usually do this morning. Like you I never had much confidence in it compared to just Zone or Wide for BIF.
Everything is more responsive like AF points showing up, switching into alternative mode via Recall Custom Hold or Recall Reg AF Function.
I'll have a better understanding of RTT by the end of this weekend. I was still tending to go back to Zone and...Show more →
The Recall Reg AF Function Hold issue is a b*gger! I use that too although not very often.
It's good to hear that Recall Custom Hold is faster. I only use it on the A9II to switch to Small Flexible Spot, Sequential Low for perched birds where I have a bit more time available. I use the Recall Reg AF Function to switch to Wide in emergencies. Does Recall Custom Hold have an option to override the image stabiliser yet? That would be useful for my perched birds.
Thanks,
Tony
somersettr wrote
Joshua/Geoff - congrats on the new camera.I'm interested to know how well BEAF works with RTT.
I tend not to use RTT on the A9II for several reasons. There is a delay during focus acquisition before the tracking box locks on and this is just too long for fast subjects. Also, I find there are usually more soft shots in a burst when using RTT than if I just used vanilla Zone or Wide. Finally, when I've tried to initiate tracking of the bird on the post ready for when the bird takes off (re Galer), invariably, the tracking sticks to the post while the bird flies off.
However, I could see the A1 potentially being able to overcome these problems.
Can its increased processing power make the initial RTT focus acquisition fast enough for speedy subjects?
Do the extra AF calculations make RTT accuracy better with fewer soft shots?
And most importantly, does BEAF make RTT more intelligent? Re the bird on the post, will it follow the bird? And when the bird is in flight, even if the BEAF is only active occasionally, is the RTT more likely to stay on the bird against a busy background because BEAF updates the tracking subject from time to time?
I appreciate it's early days but I would very much welcome your insights in due course.
I did try RTT more than I usually do this morning. Like you I never had much confidence in it compared to just Zone or Wide for BIF.
Everything is more responsive like AF points showing up, switching into alternative mode via Recall Custom Hold or Recall Reg AF Function.
I'll have a better understanding of RTT by the end of this weekend. I was still tending to go back to Zone and...Show more →
The Recall Reg AF Function Hold issue is a b*gger! I use that too although not very often.
It's good to hear that Recall Custom Hold is faster. I only use it on the A9II to switch to Small Flexible Spot, Sequential Low for perched birds where I have a bit more time available. I use the Recall Reg AF Function to switch to Wide in emergencies. Does Recall Custom Hold have an option to override the image stabiliser yet? That would be useful for my perched birds.
Thanks,
Tony
Mar 12, 2021 at 03:47 AM
p.2 #19Sony A1 - Bird Photography Camera for Dummies
somersettr wrote:
I'm interested to know how well BEAF works with RTT.
I tend not to use RTT on the A9II for several reasons. There is a delay during focus acquisition before the tracking box locks on and this is just too long for fast subjects. Also, I find there are usually more soft shots in a burst when using RTT than if I just used vanilla Zone or Wide. Finally, when I've tried to initiate tracking of the bird on the post ready for when the bird takes off (re Galer), invariably, the tracking sticks to the post while the bird flies off.
However, I could see the A1 potentially being able to overcome these problems.
Can its increased processing power make the initial RTT focus acquisition fast enough for speedy subjects?
Do the extra AF calculations make RTT accuracy better with fewer soft shots?
And most importantly, does BEAF make RTT more intelligent? Re the bird on the post, will it follow the bird? And when the bird is in flight, even if the BEAF is only active occasionally, is the RTT more likely to stay on the bird against a busy background because BEAF updates the tracking subject from time to time?
I appreciate it's early days but I would very much welcome your insights in due course.Hi Tony, on the A9/A9 II you have 2 cycles/groups of AF-Areas. If you start with the non-tracking version of the cycle, you can scroll down and you end up in the RTT version of the same set, like Wide, Zone, Selectable, etc. And you have to decide whether you want to use the RTT version or not before hand.
Well, that changed with the A1. You only have a single cycle of the AF-Areas and not 2 anymore. If you set the camera to Eye-AF, there 3 selections, Human, Bird and Animal. So far, I have used the BE-AF. Let’s say, I set the camera to Zone-AF, which is my favorite in my other Sony cameras. With that BE-AF mode on, it would pick up the eye of the bird immediately. You can move the camera around or the bird can move, the Eye-AF indicator will stick to the eye and it is sticky. In theory, even if the bird takes off and in flight. So far, so good. In other words, the camera does a great job in doing that. Now, you just have to make sure that you keep the target within the zone you first selected.
Writing this gives me an idea of probably better to use the Wide-AF mode rather than Zone-AF. As you can imagine, it is easier to get and keep the target in a larger rectangle than smaller. I doesn’t make sense to even use any other AF-Area, especially the smaller ones. I will have to try this out tomorrow and report my findings here.
Hope this helps,
JoshuaWell, this leaves me a bit puzzled. I think you are implying that if you select Bird as the Eye-AF type, you can only use the ordinary AF areas? The manual - https://helpguide.sony.net/ilc/2040/v1/en/contents/TP0002911172.html - made me think is was roughly the same as the A9II so you could choose say Tracking Zone and have BEAF switched on.
It seems to me that losing the eye if the eye goes out of your AF area could be significant problem, particularly with Zone. As the bird flies closer, the head will naturally move outside of a centred Zone. I had hoped that...Show more →
I can now confirm how it works. Short answer is that Tracking:Zone does what you want it to.
BEAF works in any AF mode including Tracking modes.
If you are in a non-tracking mode then it only looks for eyes within the area of the AF mode you have chosen. If it finds and eye, lets say within the Zone AF mode, then it will track that eye as long as you keep it within the Zone AF area.
If you are in a Tracking AF mode then it first just looks for eyes within that Zone (same as above). However, once it starts tracking the eye you can move the bird outside of the AF Area and it continues to track the eye. If the bird turns away it switches on the Tracking icon (square with a vertical line left and right of the square) and continues to track, it will reacquire the eye if the bird turns back towards you. All that happens as long as you continue to activate AF. If you stop doing AF then you have to get the bird back under the AF Area to start again.
If you want it to search over the entire frame then you can use Wide or Wide Tracking or the Custom Key for "Eye-AF" which overrides whatever you are set to and just searches for eyes over the entire sensor (ie the legacy way from the pre-RTT cameras).
This seems to be a good way and gives one options to sort of control how things work. Contrast this to the R5 where you only have two options to acquire eye-AF....either have it look over the entire sensor or aim a single AF point at a bird (where it does then track it over the entire sensor as you recompose or the bird moves). The A1 just gives the user more flexibility and control by letting you choose how small/large of a detection area you want and wether you want it to track outside of the detection area (using a Tracking AF mode) or not (with a non-tracking AF mode).
AGeoJO wrote
somersettr wrote
Joshua/Geoff - congrats on the new camera.I'm interested to know how well BEAF works with RTT.
I tend not to use RTT on the A9II for several reasons. There is a delay during focus acquisition before the tracking box locks on and this is just too long for fast subjects. Also, I find there are usually more soft shots in a burst when using RTT than if I just used vanilla Zone or Wide. Finally, when I've tried to initiate tracking of the bird on the post ready for when the bird takes off (re Galer), invariably, the tracking sticks to the post while the bird flies off.
However, I could see the A1 potentially being able to overcome these problems.
Can its increased processing power make the initial RTT focus acquisition fast enough for speedy subjects?
Do the extra AF calculations make RTT accuracy better with fewer soft shots?
And most importantly, does BEAF make RTT more intelligent? Re the bird on the post, will it follow the bird? And when the bird is in flight, even if the BEAF is only active occasionally, is the RTT more likely to stay on the bird against a busy background because BEAF updates the tracking subject from time to time?
I appreciate it's early days but I would very much welcome your insights in due course.
Well, that changed with the A1. You only have a single cycle of the AF-Areas and not 2 anymore. If you set the camera to Eye-AF, there 3 selections, Human, Bird and Animal. So far, I have used the BE-AF. Let’s say, I set the camera to Zone-AF, which is my favorite in my other Sony cameras. With that BE-AF mode on, it would pick up the eye of the bird immediately. You can move the camera around or the bird can move, the Eye-AF indicator will stick to the eye and it is sticky. In theory, even if the bird takes off and in flight. So far, so good. In other words, the camera does a great job in doing that. Now, you just have to make sure that you keep the target within the zone you first selected.
Writing this gives me an idea of probably better to use the Wide-AF mode rather than Zone-AF. As you can imagine, it is easier to get and keep the target in a larger rectangle than smaller. I doesn’t make sense to even use any other AF-Area, especially the smaller ones. I will have to try this out tomorrow and report my findings here.
Hope this helps,
Joshua
I think you are implying that if you select Bird as the Eye-AF type, you can only use the ordinary AF areas? The manual - https://helpguide.sony.net/ilc/2040/v1/en/contents/TP0002911172.html - made me think is was roughly the same as the A9II so you could choose say Tracking Zone and have BEAF switched on.It seems to me that losing the eye if the eye goes out of your AF area could be significant problem, particularly with Zone. As the bird flies closer, the head will naturally move outside of a centred Zone. I had hoped that...Show more →
I can now confirm how it works. Short answer is that Tracking:Zone does what you want it to.
BEAF works in any AF mode including Tracking modes.
If you are in a non-tracking mode then it only looks for eyes within the area of the AF mode you have chosen. If it finds and eye, lets say within the Zone AF mode, then it will track that eye as long as you keep it within the Zone AF area.
If you are in a Tracking AF mode then it first just looks for eyes within that Zone (same as above). However, once it starts tracking the eye you can move the bird outside of the AF Area and it continues to track the eye. If the bird turns away it switches on the Tracking icon (square with a vertical line left and right of the square) and continues to track, it will reacquire the eye if the bird turns back towards you. All that happens as long as you continue to activate AF. If you stop doing AF then you have to get the bird back under the AF Area to start again.
If you want it to search over the entire frame then you can use Wide or Wide Tracking or the Custom Key for "Eye-AF" which overrides whatever you are set to and just searches for eyes over the entire sensor (ie the legacy way from the pre-RTT cameras).
This seems to be a good way and gives one options to sort of control how things work. Contrast this to the R5 where you only have two options to acquire eye-AF....either have it look over the entire sensor or aim a single AF point at a bird (where it does then track it over the entire sensor as you recompose or the bird moves). The A1 just gives the user more flexibility and control by letting you choose how small/large of a detection area you want and wether you want it to track outside of the detection area (using a Tracking AF mode) or not (with a non-tracking AF mode).
Mar 12, 2021 at 05:08 AM
p.2 #20Sony A1 - Bird Photography Camera for Dummies
somersettr wrote:
I'm interested to know how well BEAF works with RTT.
I tend not to use RTT on the A9II for several reasons. There is a delay during focus acquisition before the tracking box locks on and this is just too long for fast subjects. Also, I find there are usually more soft shots in a burst when using RTT than if I just used vanilla Zone or Wide. Finally, when I've tried to initiate tracking of the bird on the post ready for when the bird takes off (re Galer), invariably, the tracking sticks to the post while the bird flies off.
However, I could see the A1 potentially being able to overcome these problems.
Can its increased processing power make the initial RTT focus acquisition fast enough for speedy subjects?
Do the extra AF calculations make RTT accuracy better with fewer soft shots?
And most importantly, does BEAF make RTT more intelligent? Re the bird on the post, will it follow the bird? And when the bird is in flight, even if the BEAF is only active occasionally, is the RTT more likely to stay on the bird against a busy background because BEAF updates the tracking subject from time to time?
I appreciate it's early days but I would very much welcome your insights in due course.Still too early for me to say. Had to come back to work for the rest of the day. But I have 3 days straight of shooting time starting tomorrow.
I did try RTT more than I usually do this morning. Like you I never had much confidence in it compared to just Zone or Wide for BIF.
Everything is more responsive like AF points showing up, switching into alternative mode via Recall Custom Hold or Recall Reg AF Function.
I'll have a better understanding of RTT by the end of this weekend. I was still tending to go back to Zone and Wide (non-tracking) with BEAF enabled for most of my flight shooting today.
I will say I did find one bird species where the A1 is nowhere near as good as the R5 and that is Black Oystercatcher. It only occasionally recognized the eye (even though it is bright orange on black head) when the Oystercatcher was in perfect side pose with head raised. The R5 can recognize them in all sorts of poses and head dipping etc. But otherwise every other bird worked well except for a fairly distant Cormorant IF. But I mean who cares in that situation, tonnes of DOF to cover it with Zone.
I've now found two things that I consider "broken" on the A1 compared to the A9II/A7RIV/A9. The first is that Tracking On won't switch a Recall Reg AF Function Hold non-tracking AF mode into a RTT mode. The second is when I run my EVF/LCD in pseudo DSLR mode it doesn't show me the exposure changes I'm making at the bottom of the LCD like it does on the previous cameras. That function was my workaround for not having a top LCD. Unless I'm missing some setting...I will investigate further.The Recall Reg AF Function Hold issue is a b*gger! I use that too although not very often.
It's good to hear that Recall Custom Hold is faster. I only use it on the A9II to switch to Small Flexible Spot, Sequential Low for perched birds where I have a bit more time available. I use the Recall Reg AF Function to switch to Wide in emergencies. Does Recall Custom Hold have an option to override the image stabiliser yet? That would be useful for my perched birds.
Thanks,
Tony
I used to use the Reg AF Function in two different ways on my A9II (and previous). I would set C2 to toggle into it. But I also set AF-ON to the Recall Hold Reg AF Area. The reason I liked it on the AF-ON is for the reason that I could at anytime push in my Tracking-ON (I use the lens button) at the same time and switch my Registered AF Area (which was almost always S Flex Spot) into Tracking S Flex Spot.
But I've found a totally new workflow with the A1 that I detailed in the A1 Settings thread. I'm liking this new way a lot because I can do everything really quickly and don't even need the lens button anymore. Nor do I need to use Reg AF Area anymore. I am still using Reg Custom Shoot Set/Recall Custom Hold on my AE-L for a "perched bird setting"...ie S. Flex Spot, 1/250, Auto ISO. Reg Cust Shoot Set/Rec Custom Hold has never been able to be overrides by the "Tracking On" Custom key which is why I used the Recall Reg AF Area Hold key before.
arbitrage wrote
somersettr wrote
Joshua/Geoff - congrats on the new camera.I'm interested to know how well BEAF works with RTT.
I tend not to use RTT on the A9II for several reasons. There is a delay during focus acquisition before the tracking box locks on and this is just too long for fast subjects. Also, I find there are usually more soft shots in a burst when using RTT than if I just used vanilla Zone or Wide. Finally, when I've tried to initiate tracking of the bird on the post ready for when the bird takes off (re Galer), invariably, the tracking sticks to the post while the bird flies off.
However, I could see the A1 potentially being able to overcome these problems.
Can its increased processing power make the initial RTT focus acquisition fast enough for speedy subjects?
Do the extra AF calculations make RTT accuracy better with fewer soft shots?
And most importantly, does BEAF make RTT more intelligent? Re the bird on the post, will it follow the bird? And when the bird is in flight, even if the BEAF is only active occasionally, is the RTT more likely to stay on the bird against a busy background because BEAF updates the tracking subject from time to time?
I appreciate it's early days but I would very much welcome your insights in due course.
I did try RTT more than I usually do this morning. Like you I never had much confidence in it compared to just Zone or Wide for BIF.
Everything is more responsive like AF points showing up, switching into alternative mode via Recall Custom Hold or Recall Reg AF Function.
I'll have a better understanding of RTT by the end of this weekend. I was still tending to go back to Zone and Wide (non-tracking) with BEAF enabled for most of my flight shooting today.
I will say I did find one bird species where the A1 is nowhere near as good as the R5 and that is Black Oystercatcher. It only occasionally recognized the eye (even though it is bright orange on black head) when the Oystercatcher was in perfect side pose with head raised. The R5 can recognize them in all sorts of poses and head dipping etc. But otherwise every other bird worked well except for a fairly distant Cormorant IF. But I mean who cares in that situation, tonnes of DOF to cover it with Zone.
I've now found two things that I consider "broken" on the A1 compared to the A9II/A7RIV/A9. The first is that Tracking On won't switch a Recall Reg AF Function Hold non-tracking AF mode into a RTT mode. The second is when I run my EVF/LCD in pseudo DSLR mode it doesn't show me the exposure changes I'm making at the bottom of the LCD like it does on the previous cameras. That function was my workaround for not having a top LCD. Unless I'm missing some setting...I will investigate further.
It's good to hear that Recall Custom Hold is faster. I only use it on the A9II to switch to Small Flexible Spot, Sequential Low for perched birds where I have a bit more time available. I use the Recall Reg AF Function to switch to Wide in emergencies. Does Recall Custom Hold have an option to override the image stabiliser yet? That would be useful for my perched birds.
Thanks,
Tony
I used to use the Reg AF Function in two different ways on my A9II (and previous). I would set C2 to toggle into it. But I also set AF-ON to the Recall Hold Reg AF Area. The reason I liked it on the AF-ON is for the reason that I could at anytime push in my Tracking-ON (I use the lens button) at the same time and switch my Registered AF Area (which was almost always S Flex Spot) into Tracking S Flex Spot.
But I've found a totally new workflow with the A1 that I detailed in the A1 Settings thread. I'm liking this new way a lot because I can do everything really quickly and don't even need the lens button anymore. Nor do I need to use Reg AF Area anymore. I am still using Reg Custom Shoot Set/Recall Custom Hold on my AE-L for a "perched bird setting"...ie S. Flex Spot, 1/250, Auto ISO. Reg Cust Shoot Set/Rec Custom Hold has never been able to be overrides by the "Tracking On" Custom key which is why I used the Recall Reg AF Area Hold key before.
Mar 12, 2021 at 05:17 AM