p.s. how much 'cheaper' can the M-A be? What would they remove?
Already no light meter. I guess they could remove the RF and make a new M1. But why?
Perhaps remove frame lines? Or the genius move of removing the RF condenser like they did on the M4-P, M6 and early M7s making them very susceptible to flare.
Desmolicious wrote:
p.s. how much 'cheaper' can the M-A be? What would they remove?
Already no light meter. I guess they could remove the RF and make a new M1. But why?
Perhaps remove frame lines? Or the genius move of removing the RF condenser like they did on the M4-P, M6 and early M7s making them very susceptible to flare.
All speculative at this point anyway, but it is certainly fun to think about possibilities .
But it might indicate that Leica sees now higher demand in film camera models - which we already know that this is the case in general. I don't think that they can cut too much because then potential buyers will continue to purchase used gear instead and not the new film camera. Leica needs to find the optimum between avoiding in-house competition with the M-P or M-A models (just the existing price might do this!) and still competing with older Leica film M camera models. So the price IMO can't realistically be above $2-2.5K - because otherwise you can get a used but well maintained M6/M7.
Marketing-wise - and I don't want to draw the devil on the wall here - they could also stopping servicing older Leica M film models to make their newer film cameras more attractive to buyers for $$$$....hope this won't happen.
I doubt it even it is possible of course. Leica removed the CL because it gave Leica severe headaches due to in-house competition with the M series at the time. I can't see a new CL to be successfully sold for even $1K when the original can be obtained for half of this. And I doubt Leica is targeting a new film camera for $500.
When Nikon was selling the FM-10 for $600 before they finally pulled the plug (and it was a horrible plasticky Cosina thing), how cheap could a new film camera be?
Leica pulled the plug on the M7 because peeps wanted a 'traditional' mechanical Leica. They want an MP or M6 etc. Introducing a Summarit line of film cameras is just going to end the way the Summarit M line of lenses did.
retrofocus wrote:
I doubt it even it is possible of course. Leica removed the CL because it gave Leica severe headaches due to in-house competition with the M series at the time. I can't see a new CL to be successfully sold for even $1K when the original can be obtained for half of this. And I doubt Leica is targeting a new film camera for $500.
Desmolicious wrote:
When Nikon was selling the FM-10 for $600 before they finally pulled the plug (and it was a horrible plasticky Cosina thing), how cheap could a new film camera be?
Leica pulled the plug on the M7 because peeps wanted a 'traditional' mechanical Leica. They want an MP or M6 etc. Introducing a Summarit line of film cameras is just going to end the way the Summarit M line of lenses did.
I have both the M6 and the M7 - the only thing I don't like in the M7 is the DX code infrared reader for automatic ISO readout. The film cartridge never leaves the insert quickly after the film is taken, and I can't shoot IR film with this camera. Otherwise I prefer the M7 even it is a bit heavier - better rangefinder patch, more precise metering (always use the M7 for slide film shooting instead of the M6), better and larger shutter time wheel (no issue with the M6 TTL, but I have the non-TTL version where the wheel is tiny and rotates the other direction). I am actually surprised that the M6 is always so hyped up, but the M7 gets much less attention.
Officially Leica closed the Summarit lens line due to low demand - which I question. I think it was more a decision to cut lower priced lenses which likely cut into the sales of more expensive Summicron and Summilux lenses. I have both the 35 mm Summarit and the Summicron - the Summarit is as good and maybe even better wide open.
That's why I said in my earlier post that Leica needs to find a compromise with this new cheaper film camera - which I suspect will be a M series camera, too - avoiding cutting into M-P and M-A markets and still offering a benefit over existing used M camera prices.
retrofocus wrote:
I have both the M6 and the M7 - the only thing I don't like in the M7 is the DX code infrared reader for automatic ISO readout. The film cartridge never leaves the insert quickly after the film is taken, and I can't shoot IR film with this camera. Otherwise I prefer the M7 even it is a bit heavier - better rangefinder patch, more precise metering (always use the M7 for slide film shooting instead of the M6), better and larger shutter time wheel (no issue with the M6 TTL, but I have the non-TTL version where the wheel is tiny and rotates the other direction). I am actually surprised that the M6 is always so hyped up, but the M7 gets much less attention.
Officially Leica closed the Summarit lens line due to low demand - which I question. I think it was more a decision to cut lower priced lenses which likely cut into the sales of more expensive Summicron and Summilux lenses. I have both the 35 mm Summarit and the Summicron - the Summarit is as good and maybe even better wide open.
That's why I said in my earlier post that Leica needs to find a compromise with this new cheaper film camera - which I suspect will be a M series camera, too - avoiding cutting into M-P and M-A markets and still offering a benefit over existing used M camera prices. ...Show more →
What serial number is your M6? There were at least one change in the meter within the Classic series; the earlier being noted by a few as being more accurate. (Including Sherry Krauter) At any rate, I think the hype of the M6 had origins in it being almost entirely mechanical, but has blossomed into something else.
As for the rumoured new camera, if it comes to realization, as Huss said couldn't be similar to a M6 or M7 for less than a M-A. If it is truly going to be more affordable, something has to give... That's where the CL came to mind. And in reality, they could re-release the CL now, charge $1500+ and sell a ton. This is the same company that charged extra for a digital camera with the LCD removed, and got away with it just fine.
helimat wrote:
What serial number is your M6? There were at least one change in the meter within the Classic series; the earlier being noted by a few as being more accurate. (Including Sherry Krauter) At any rate, I think the hype of the M6 had origins in it being almost entirely mechanical, but has blossomed into something else.
The serial number of my M6 is 20641** (last two digits purposely omitted here). It is from 1995. With precision in the M7 meter I referred to the dot and arrow showing whereas the M6 has only the arrows. My M7 is made in 2003.
retrofocus wrote:
I think it was more a decision to cut lower priced lenses which likely cut into the sales of more expensive Summicron and Summilux lenses
This has never been true. Leica always sold more of its expensive lenses & cameras. The sold more R5 than RE, more 35mm Summicron R than 35mm Elmarit, etc.
Nothing has changed: once people buy an expensive brand, it is because they can afford it and then tend to buy the best.
Those who do not want to pay the full price of a brand new Summicron can find a 2nd hand one instead of a Summarit. And Leica's 2nd hand market is huge and their lenses are designed to last for very long.
So the main reason to buy a Summarit is that it one prefers it. I know I did bought my 35mm/2.4 for this reason but not for the price: I had a 35 FLE before.
1) Will be a successor to the Sofort but Leica will sell their own Leica and Fuji collaboration Instax film. Instax w/ a Red Dot on the packaging and red colored border frames, a-la Leica style.
2) A fixed lens CL type 35mm film body...perhaps half frame!
retrofocus wrote:
The serial number of my M6 is 20641** (last two digits purposely omitted here). It is from 1995. With precision in the M7 meter I referred to the dot and arrow showing whereas the M6 has only the arrows. My M7 is made in 2003.
OK, I apologize for straying off topic, but I'm just trying to wrap my head around the differences. The M7 still indicates down to a half stop, no? The indicator is the same or similar to a M6 TTL is it not?
I remember seeing a few places that the M6 S# under 170xxxx was more accurate, (IE Leitz on red dot instead of Leica) which also corresponds to a slightly different function in extreme under exposure. (Older lightmeter does not illuminate, newer blinks which can drain the battery)
I'd be hoping for M7 functionality in a alloy (not brass) body. Remove the frameline selector lever to simplify. Build it in Portugal to get around tariffs and price at 20-25% less than the MP. A bundle with the new cheaper lenses would be a good idea.
CVickery wrote:
I'd be hoping for M7 functionality in a alloy (not brass) body. Remove the frameline selector lever to simplify. Build it in Portugal to get around tariffs and price at 20-25% less than the MP. A bundle with the new cheaper lenses would be a good idea.
Get rid of the frame line selector. Simplify the frames available - 35, 50 and 90 only. Each showing only that one. Sell new, cheaper OVFs for the hot shoe for 135, 28 and 21mm. Get rid of the DX film coding (I wish my M7s didn't have that).
Build it in.....Canada.
The MA and MP can still be had new. I don't know if the MP is discontinued but it is still on the site and it is still available at the same slow volumes in shops. Both go for the same price. Which means that adding/removing things has nothing to do with the price, which given the volumes sold makes sense. So I'm not sure what else you can remove from the MA to make the materials cheaper but I would say removing anything means you are making "special" versions of something, ie MORE expensive as you are selling even less for the extra effort.
The only thing that would make sense is a completely new camera, maybe a fixed lens camera like the Q. But that would move at such low volumes it could only survive as a special edition or something even more expensive.
At the end of the day the MA is as basic as it gets. The only thing that can be removed without rendering the camera inoperable is the frame preview lever, that would save them $10 per camera in materials and probably cost them $100 per camera for the new machining equipment and changes in build processing. So unless they make a plastic MA to sell for a relative bargain $2000 I just don't see it happening. It just does not make sense for them to sell anything cheaper, it will either be a failure and a waste of money or it will eat the MA/MP line and eat into their margins.
