Makten wrote:
And some people don't fit at all in the marketing strategy. I've been looking for a small camera with IBIS, large sensor and tilting screen forever. It doesn't exist, if you also want a decent user interface not targeted at noobs. Not even if you go APS-C.
I don't care about AF and I don't even need a viewfinder since I shoot mostly from waist level. But the screen on the a7C is awkward since it doesn't flip straight up. Where am I gonna place my left hand if the screen is pointing to the left?
The functions I need buttons for would easily fit an even smaller camera, so that's not a problem. It's just not targeted at me, and no other camera is either. I almost broke down when Ricoh finally launched the GR III and STILL no tilting screen.
And now this... Another punch in the face. ...Show more →
Very likely all upcoming Sony bodies will come with the new swivel LCD. I agree with you and only wish my A7R IV's LCD would tilt vertically as well.
Fred Miranda wrote:
Very likely all upcoming Sony bodies will come with the new swivel LCD. I agree with you and only wish my A7R IV's LCD would tilt vertically as well.
Wait... The a7R IV has a vlogging screen? Jesus. Then I will probably never buy another FF Sony, since all of them will have that. Luckily I "only" have 3 native lenses, but two of them are very nice Voigtländers.
Makten wrote:
Wait... The a7R IV has a vlogging screen? Jesus. Then I will probably never buy another FF Sony, since all of them will have that. Luckily I "only" have 3 native lenses, but two of them are very nice Voigtländers.
No, it has a tilt screen.
What I wrote is that I wish it would tilt in landscape as well as portrait orientations. I'm not a fan of swivel LCDs either.
Makten wrote:
And some people don't fit at all in the marketing strategy. I've been looking for a small camera with IBIS, large sensor and tilting screen forever. It doesn't exist, if you also want a decent user interface not targeted at noobs. Not even if you go APS-C.
I don't care about AF and I don't even need a viewfinder since I shoot mostly from waist level. But the screen on the a7C is awkward since it doesn't flip straight up. Where am I gonna place my left hand if the screen is pointing to the left?
The functions I need buttons for would easily fit an even smaller camera, so that's not a problem. It's just not targeted at me, and no other camera is either. I almost broke down when Ricoh finally launched the GR III and STILL no tilting screen.
And now this... Another punch in the face. ...Show more →
A7c as 'THE marketing strategy'?! I am not sure it deserves such description. I would say it could have been a much more marketing success if Sony would have paid more attention to the user interface. As you said it, there is nothing in the size that obstructs a better user interface whether it is more buttons and dials or a thorough touch interface. They seem not taking the UI seriously enough that is, they think they will sell the camera anyway. That is to be seen. Of course, Sony made many major right decisions in the development of their E-mount system: compactness, full frame, advanced AF and, image quality were their main objectives. Other companies take UI more seriously. Minolta (upon which the Sony's system was first based upon) was taking the UI quite seriously.
Sony had touch interface in their early Nex cameras. That was the time when the touch screen had just appeared and was à la mode. Later, they replaced the capacitive type touch screen of Nex 5n with a pressure based one (in the subsequent models) which wasn't as responsive to work with; a move that made many Nex users unhappy. Subsequently instead of fixing its flaws and shortcomings, they completely dropped the touch interface. I get the impression that some people at Sony just don't feel like the user interface and touch operation is their thing. So often when they do something about these aspects of their products, it is simply a response to criticism and user feedback (complaints, negative reviews, etc.) rather than a genuine point of view which considers UI an important and integral part of hardware manufacturing. There is so much reluctance on the their part about this aspect of their system. It's rather a belief-like attitude towards manufacturing than a 'marketing strategy'. They just don't want to deal with it or, as little as possible, but enough to operate the hardware. They have the same attitude towards their software (Playmemories, Sony Imaging Edge, etc.).
Ditto. I'm thinking I'll pick up a used one in a year or two for under $1k. Pretty much the ONLY reason I'm interested in this over my Sigma fp is the built-in EVF, and I'd really need to try it out to see if it's awful. I really wish they'd skipped the grip and made it a boxy, "true" rangefinder form. Specs look fine to me, don't need a joystick or front dial for how I shoot.
The million dollar question for me is how it performs with M lenses. Looking forward to seeing what people do with it!
Steve Spencer wrote:
I said I would buy later when the price drops, but it is really I will buy later because I want to check out the EVF and make sure I can live with it. I am not in a big hurry to buy this camera because I want it primarily as a travel camera and my travel is very limited because of COVID-19.
It may be quite some time for the “official” price to be reduced. But as we have seen previously, they will surface in the B&S forums in about 3-4 months and I would venture to guess a year down the road, the price for a used but mint copy would be approximately $1,200 and that would make the price reasonable as a travel camera.
After thinking about it, I may skip the A7C. I don't really care for the video centric swivel LCD screen. I would of preferred one that that flipped forward like the older NEX-5T I use to own.
While the form factor would be great for compactness, every camera I've owned that has that style LCD, doesn't vibe well with me. On top of that, I've actually had one break with a little kid running into it and snapping the screen off!
Imagine if this offering was actually a medium format sensor small body...We'd be fighting for it.....
I'm out, I might have been in if this had the A7R4 sensor..... But Sony, quit fooling around, give me medium format, even if I have to use my FE Lenses....
nandadevieast wrote:
@makten@ a7c screen you can open and tilt up for waist level shooting. Am i missing something?
Not without having to flip it to the side of the camera first.
I truly hate that design as well and really hope it won't be on every new A7/A9 series cameras. I don't have much hope though.
It makes a camera so much more clunky to use in so many ways (more actions needed to just tilt it up, it makes the camera physically wider, LCD not directly behind the lens makes quick framing more difficult, more difficult to use with L-brackets,...).
raminolta wrote: A7c as 'THE marketing strategy'?! I am not sure it deserves such description. I would say it could have been a much more marketing success if Sony would have paid more attention to the user interface. As you said it, there is nothing in the size that obstructs a better user interface whether it is more buttons and dials or a thorough touch interface. They seem not taking the UI seriously enough that is, they think they will sell the camera anyway. That is to be seen. Of course, Sony made many major right decisions in the development of their E-mount system: compactness, full frame, advanced AF and, image quality were their main objectives. Other companies take UI more seriously. Minolta (upon which the Sony's system was first based upon) was taking the UI quite seriously....Show more →
Not sure if you quoted the right person here, since I never said that.
Sony had touch interface in their early Nex cameras. That was the time when the touch screen had just appeared and was à la mode. Later, they replaced the capacitive type touch screen of Nex 5n with a pressure based one (in the subsequent models) which wasn't as responsive to work with; a move that made many Nex users unhappy. Subsequently instead of fixing its flaws and shortcomings, they completely dropped the touch interface. I get the impression that some people at Sony just don't feel like the user interface and touch operation is their thing. So often when they do something about these aspects of their products, it is simply a response to criticism and user feedback (complaints, negative reviews, etc.) rather than a genuine point of view which considers UI an important and integral part of hardware manufacturing. There is so much reluctance on the their part about this aspect of their system. It's rather a belief-like attitude towards manufacturing than a 'marketing strategy'. They just don't want to deal with it, as little as possible, only what is enough and necessary to operate the hardware. They have the same attitude towards their software (Playmemories, Sony Imaging Edge, etc.). ...Show more →
Touch screen is totally useless for us that have to wear gloves ~half of the year. So it only cripples the camera by not letting us reach functions that otherwise would have had dedicated buttons. I really, really hate touch screens and I've almost stopped using my phone other than when I have no other option because of that.
I'm sure it's great for people with small fingers that don't live in a climate where they have to use gloves, though.
nandadevieast wrote:
@makten@ a7c screen you can open and tilt up for waist level shooting. Am i missing something?
Yes, as Jochen wrote here above, you have to flip it to the left and then turn it 180 degrees. It means the display is on the side of the camera, not straight behind the lens.
When shooting in low light, most of the time I hold the camera at slightly above waist level with my elbows tucked to my waist, which is very stable and I can look straight down at the screen. Just like an old TLR. But with the screen offset to the left, there will be less room for my left hand (holding the lens, focusing) and also probably a bit awkward to frame properly.
I still have my Panasonic G1, the first interchangeable lens mirrorless camera. The swivel LCD is still functional after extensive use. One needs to learn to use it differently. The wrist part of the left hand supporting (cradling) the deployed LCD makes it very stable. No issues about viewing either.
This, AFAIC, is a huge plus for the A7C and is one of the most attractive features of this camera.
I can see it both ways regarding the screen; both have advantages/disadvantages.
So, I hope this is Sony deciding some cameras should a swivel screen, others a tilting one. Not sure if video centric is what should define that choice, but choice itself is good IMO. If Sony suddenly decides every camera should have this screen, that's bad and will understandably annoy some people. Otherwise, it's a choice, everyone should keep liking what they like.
I've used cameras with both types of screens, and while I don't use either very much, I'll use tilting more than swiveling, because tilting has "lower overhead." Tilting might also make for a thinner camera (the A7C could use the help). Having said that, the thing I most like about swiveling designs is that they can be reversed for storage, and that's nice for a bring with me everywhere camera.
Same here, preordered immediately specifically for two voigtlander lenses, the 21/3.5 and 40/1.2. I expect that the EVF isn't as bad as some people think, and that it will improve in time. No interest in vlogging or video at all, just want to shoot like it's a Leica M with mag focus.
