p.10 #1 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
chez wrote:
Someone said 350 shots per battery...that's OK with me.
I have never gotten 350. Or even close. The CIPA number ranks it at 220 (which, as usual, is pretty optimistic). I would be much happier with 350.
But, I am like you and others, I will just use my a7r2 or a7s depending on the situation if I need more battery. But if Sony does release an RX1R3 with even the a7/a7ii line of batteries with minimal size increase, it would significantly extend the utility and my usage.
If it work for others usage that's great. We can turn the conversation back to the a7c.
p.10 #2 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
bjornthun wrote:
The Euro price may include German 19% vat.
exactly, we just had the same discussion because of the SIII and people still get this extremely wrong, it's always the other way around, EUR/GPB prices will always be much higher
this camera might actually be sold under 2000 USD, the a7III launch price was 2300 EUR, this one is lower at 2100 EUR and the VAT actually got higher in 2020
p.10 #3 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
DaveFP wrote:
Your missing the forest for the trees friend.
Can you please tell me of an auto-focusing full frame camera produced in 2012 that matches the RX1 for size and weight?
Your problem is that you have no sense of the context.
The RX1 is a 2012 (eight years old this summer) camera.
In the tech world it is considered a "classic" camera. The fact that Sony continues to sell it doesn't change that fact.
Sony's goal in producing the camera was not to show how long a battery could last.
It was never marketed as an "all weather/ all temperature" camera nor was it marketed as "great for astro".
It was presented as a tour-de-force in the realm of miniaturization.
Those of us with STEM educations understand that anything that is "pushes the envelope" in one direction will almost invariably be compromised in other areas.
(only paradigm shifts in technology can reduce those compromises)
The RX1 is not good or bad. It just "is".
Up to the buyer to determine whether or not it meets your needs and desires.
Sounds like you had unrealistic expectations for this particular piece of equipment.
As an aside - I have always wanted, but will never purchase a Ricoh GR.
Why? Because it has no EVF and I can't use a camera without an EVF.
Imagine my buying one in spite of that fact and then coming on here and complaining that it "sucks" because I struggle to compose with it.
The camera would not be flawed; the ding dong struggling with the LCD is flawed.
As I said, I understand. Most major reviews sites and users disagree with you. Which is why it keeps coming up. I'll not ask again, but I highly suspect you don't use the RX1 in the ways that you'd need decent battery life. Because someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't mean they are missing the point.
Objectively, the RX1 battery is quite limited that is a measurable fact. I don't disagree with that Sony was trying to optimize miniaturization and wasn't trying to produce a camera in the traditional sense.
We can just appreciate the camera differently and leave it at that. Reasonable people can disagree. And I've seen your RX1 photos with you flyfishing--very pretty.
p.10 #4 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
tzhang4284 wrote:
Wish it had a 42mp sensor option...otherwise everything else looks generally good. Not sure it replaces my Sony A7R III however until it gets to >36mp
I'll pass on the 24mp version, but will be first in line for the 42 mp or more version.
p.10 #5 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
nehemiahphoto wrote:
I have never gotten 350. Or even close. The CIPA number ranks it at 220 (which, as usual, is pretty optimistic). I would be much happier with 350.
But, I am like you and others, I will just use my a7r2 or a7s depending on the situation if I need more battery. But if Sony does release an RX1R3 with even the a7/a7ii line of batteries with minimal size increase, it would significantly extend the utility and my usage.
If it work for others usage that's great. We can turn the conversation back to the a7c.
I wish I could get 350 images on the RX1. It would not be an issue if this was accurate.
p.10 #7 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
@FredMiranda - Yeah, 350 would be no issue for me as well.
What is really interesting to me about this camera, and new compact lens line, is the amount of pressure it potentially puts on crop cameras, specifically Fuji.
The XT-4 weight 526g without battery, while the X-Pro2 if 485g. If Sony can ballpark this body size/weight, and releases lenses between f2-2.8, at a similar size to Fuji f1.4 - f2's, and still get FF IQ and bokeh, it's going to be rough for Fuji I think.
p.10 #8 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Fred Miranda wrote:
This makes way better sense now!
"RUMOR correction: Seems like the Sony A7c EVF is fixed and not pop-up. Price is 2.100 Euro!" (link)
Great! It was a misreport. Hard to see why Sony would have needed to do a pop-up on this camera.
Aug 31, 2020 at 08:06 PM
imagesfromobjects Offline • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
p.10 #9 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
C'mon man, I'm a bottom feeder, you should know that by now. It's $500 more than Sigma fp and Sony a73 at release. I'm sure you get this as a fellow manual shooter, but I'm less interested in a specced-out camera when I'm never EVER going to use any of the AF bells and whistles and would rather it just be as "minimalist" as Sony can go.
Put the latest sensor and EVF in, a tilt screen call it a day. I was hoping this was a rangefinder-styled answer to something like the Canon RP, but without the plastic-y vibe. Now it looks like they're going all-in, which is wonderful, but doesn't interest me.
Then again, this is all SAR, so maybe I should just shut up and wait until the official announcement.
nehemiahphoto wrote:
Is that so bad if it’s spec’ed well? If you converted by Kolari is like a 3k RF...maybe I am missing something?
p.10 #10 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
imagesfromobjects wrote:
C'mon man, I'm a bottom feeder, you should know that by now. It's $500 more than Sigma fp and Sony a73 at release. I'm sure you get this as a fellow manual shooter, but I'm less interested in a specced-out camera when I'm never EVER going to use any of the AF bells and whistles and would rather it just be as "minimalist" as Sony can go.
Put the latest sensor and EVF in, a tilt screen call it a day. I was hoping this was a rangefinder-styled answer to something like the Canon RP, but without the plastic-y vibe. Now it looks like they're going all-in, which is wonderful, but doesn't interest me.
Then again, this is all SAR, so maybe I should just shut up and wait until the official announcement.
p.10 #11 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
anybody know the release date? this could be a replacement for my A7R if it's higher resolution + lighter weight. looking for a travel/landscape camera.
p.10 #12 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
knshshnk wrote:
it's actually CHEAPER than a7III that was 2300 EUR, at 2100 EUR, it'll probably be under 2000 USD, maybe even around 1700 USD at launch
I actually don't want the A7C to be cheap! If the price is too low, it indicates that the camera is being positioned at the low end of the Sony range. I want a high-quality compact FF, with quality lenses to match. That should not come in cheap.
p.10 #13 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
imagesfromobjects wrote:
C'mon man, I'm a bottom feeder, you should know that by now. It's $500 more than Sigma fp and Sony a73 at release. I'm sure you get this as a fellow manual shooter, but I'm less interested in a specced-out camera when I'm never EVER going to use any of the AF bells and whistles and would rather it just be as "minimalist" as Sony can go.
Put the latest sensor and EVF in, a tilt screen call it a day. I was hoping this was a rangefinder-styled answer to something like the Canon RP, but without the plastic-y vibe. Now it looks like they're going all-in, which is wonderful, but doesn't interest me.
Then again, this is all SAR, so maybe I should just shut up and wait until the official announcement.
I was super excited about the Foveon FF from Sigma, but that died--at least temporarily. I am loosing what little hope I had for an RX1R3. I was stoaked about the FP...until it didn't include an EVF. Doesn't seem that anyone is interested in making a compact medium format fixed lens camera anytime soon. So, really, this a7c has my entire interest. And if I get an excellent EVF, state of the art DR from a FF sensor and diminutive size, I am willing to pay a little. I'll probably get mine Kolari-ed pretty quickly.
I too will probably never use the video or about 80% of the advanced features either, but I've been annoyed at Sony's increased body size since the 2nd gen of a7x, so I don't dare complain.
p.10 #14 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Fred Miranda wrote:
A high IQ 35/1.4 AF lens will never be compact.
I'm not sure if that is necessarily true, Sigma's new 85mm f1.4 is only 630g which is much smaller than anyone thought was possible for such a sharp lens. I bet Sony could make a 35mm f1.4 that was ~450g if they went with this same design philosophy. Not that I think they'll be making fast lenses with this camera in mind.
p.10 #15 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Teo Rey wrote:
I'm not sure if that is necessarily true, Sigma's new 85mm f1.4 is only 630g which is much smaller than anyone thought was possible for such a sharp lens. I bet Sony could make a 35mm f1.4 that was ~450g if they went with this same design philosophy. Not that I think they'll be making fast lenses with this camera in mind.
Yes, I guess it's relative and the 35mm focal length presents different optical design challenges. The Sigma 85/1.4 is indeed more compact than the GM version but still weighs 630g and it's 94mm long. The FE 135/1.8 GM is also more compact compared to the Sigma 135/1.8...and so on...
A high IQ, fast telephoto lens I consider to be truly compact is the Voigtlander 75mm f/1.5 weighing a mere 350g and 63mm in length. Generally, MF lenses are more compact than AF lenses as long as they share similar IQ.
We should not expect a high IQ 35mm f/1.4 AF lens to be much smaller than the FE 35/1.4 ZA unless there is a breakthrough in glass technology. Another lens maker could make it more compact...but you get my point.
Aug 31, 2020 at 10:29 PM
imagesfromobjects Offline • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
p.10 #16 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Not CHEAP, but like... $800-$1200 was what I was hoping for. $800 if it's a plastic RP knockoff, $1200 if it's sexy like the fp.
If it's successful as a "base" model. THEN throw out the a7Cr/s and go crazy with specs for all I care.
chiron wrote:
I actually don't want the A7C to be cheap! If the price is too low, it indicates that the camera is being positioned at the low end of the Sony range. I want a high-quality compact FF, with quality lenses to match. That should not come in cheap.
p.10 #17 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
That's a lot for a 24 megapixel sensor. Especially when the A73 will not be all that much bigger and will have most of what any shooter could need.
I did a commercial shoot yesterday with my wife's A6000 with 16-50 kit lens. Indoor reportage type job for use in a brochure. Unbelievable results. We've come so very very far that you don't really need to spend all that much to have a really incredible imaging machine and I think a whole bunch of people will ask why they should spend the extra for a slightly smaller body. The A6000 is a bit lighter and a bit smaller in my bag than the A7r but the real difference is the lens. As such I think that the line of smaller lenses will be the real winner here.
p.10 #18 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
imagesfromobjects wrote:
Not CHEAP, but like... $800-$1200 was what I was hoping for. $800 if it's a plastic RP knockoff, $1200 if it's sexy like the fp.
If it's successful as a "base" model. THEN throw out the a7Cr/s and go crazy with specs for all I care.
If it's going to be what I am hoping for--which is a camera with A73 specs with AF & sensor improvements and some new small high quality lenses (like a new 28/2, 35/2, 50/2, 90/2)--then the price should come in somewhere north of 2k at best, more likely 2.3k or 2.4k. The a6000 w 16-50 lens is lovely gear for $650 at Amazon. But that is not what I am looking for this camera to be.
p.10 #20 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
wittyphrase wrote:
With these latest rumors I'm not sure I understand what role this camera is supposed to fill anymore.
The role that I and many others on the forum would like it to perform is the fulfillment of the original promise of the NEX-7 and the A7R, which was a very high quality but very compact camera with a large sensor and excellent lenses. It is possible but certainly not certain that Sony will do that.
Another role it might perform is for vloggers and youtubers, which could but does not have to conflict with the role in paragraph #1.
It might also be thought of as a step in the integration of the camera and the smartphone, which Sony has said they see as the future and that they are committed to. This could happen in a way that does not contradict #1 and #2 above, or in a way that contradicts #1.
We'll have to see. Shouldn't be long. The new VX lenses and the connectivity of the A7C will tell a lot of the story.
The fact that Sony are giving it a 7 series name makes me hopeful that #1 will be a strong part of the story.
