p.55 #1 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
JohanEickmeyer wrote:
Sorry if this has already be concluded, but is it true that this camera has no option to disable EFCS? Besides bokeh issues, this can also present a major issue when stitching panoramas at higher shutter speeds. The ND grad effect causes a stepping from shot to shot that messing things up. Going electron shutter helps the ND grad effect but ruins DR.
There was one reviewer saying it didn't have that option. Would like to confirm it as well.
p.55 #2 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Not possible as Fred mentioned however, continuous shutter in electronic shutter need not affect the DR (Sony A9). Although, this is not clear when it comes to the A7C.
JohanEickmeyer wrote:
Sorry if this has already be concluded, but is it true that this camera has no option to disable EFCS? Besides bokeh issues, this can also present a major issue when stitching panoramas at higher shutter speeds. The ND grad effect causes a stepping from shot to shot that messing things up. Going electron shutter helps the ND grad effect but ruins DR.
p.55 #3 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
It's this image that really gives you an appreciation for how much they crammed inside. I was holding off on the A7c for a high mp sensor and better EVF version. But not sure now they can put a better EVF in without making something bigger.
p.55 #5 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Maybe, but they could have done it for such a tiny increase in size that I can't imagine why they didn't. I mean, here's the difference in height if they put in a 0.7x viewfinder. Would anyone have even noticed such a tiny difference with nothing to compare it to? We're talking a 1mm, maybe 2mm increase in height.
nhsonyshooter wrote:
It's this image that really gives you an appreciation for how much they crammed inside. I was holding off on the A7c for a high mp sensor and better EVF version. But not sure now they can put a better EVF in without making something bigger.
p.55 #6 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Jman13 wrote:
Maybe, but they could have done it for such a tiny increase in size that I can't imagine why they didn't. I mean, here's the difference in height if they put in a 0.7x viewfinder. Would anyone have even noticed such a tiny difference with nothing to compare it to? We're talking a 1mm, maybe 2mm increase in height.
It's a good point. I certainly wouldn't mind the smaller LCD. Wonder if the "newly" designed IBIS is just to close to allow for even a slightly larger EVF?
Edit: Also to me they don't need the cut out to open the screen. You can do that from the bottom. That space could have had another custom button or 2.
Sep 20, 2020 at 07:58 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.55 #7 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Jman13 wrote:
Maybe, but they could have done it for such a tiny increase in size that I can't imagine why they didn't. I mean, here's the difference in height if they put in a 0.7x viewfinder. Would anyone have even noticed such a tiny difference with nothing to compare it to? We're talking a 1mm, maybe 2mm increase in height.
Yeah, I would have loved to see them do that and even go a step further and put the 3.6 million dot .7X finder in there. Maybe if they make a version II. I would easily have traded off the extra height for a bigger finder. For now we have to decide if this is a deal breaker. I am not sure if it is for me, but I am hoping I can live with the smaller finder.
p.55 #8 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
nhsonyshooter wrote:
It's this image that really gives you an appreciation for how much they crammed inside. I was holding off on the A7c for a high mp sensor and better EVF version. But not sure now they can put a better EVF in without making something bigger.
they could change the LCD from 3:2 to 16:9 format and have more room for a bigger EVF module, and without making any drastic change, they could double deck the exp.comp (like the ancient NEX-6) and make the back dial clickable, for me that minor adjustments would be enough to make that tiny body work
and of course I hope the 7IV sensor tech bring things more in tune with the SIII, that touch operation alone could have helped a lot with the constraints
Sep 20, 2020 at 09:05 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.55 #9 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
knshshnk wrote:
they could change the LCD from 3:2 to 16:9 format and have more room for a bigger EVF module, and without making any drastic change, they could double deck the exp.comp (like the ancient NEX-6) and make the back dial clickable, for me that minor adjustments would be enough to make that tiny body work
and of course I hope the 7IV sensor tech bring things more in tune with the SIII, that touch operation alone could have helped a lot with the constraints
If they kept the LCD as a 3 inch diagonal, however, they would have had to make the camera 2.5mm wider, something Sony doesn't seem willing to do. They have by quite a bit the cameras with the narrowest widths. I agree that would have been a good move, but I am not surprised Sony didn't make it.
p.55 #10 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Did you realize: combined with the light Samyang three lens kit (18 f2.8, 35f2.8, 75 f1.8 = 463g) you can realize a three lens kit weight, including the A7c, below 1kg! Amazing!
p.55 #12 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Jman13 wrote:
Maybe, but they could have done it for such a tiny increase in size that I can't imagine why they didn't. I mean, here's the difference in height if they put in a 0.7x viewfinder. Would anyone have even noticed such a tiny difference with nothing to compare it to? We're talking a 1mm, maybe 2mm increase in height.
I'm guessing they were already worried that the size was too big for their intended audience; any larger and you may as well make a full size A73 or maybe a rangefinder styled body that is no smaller than an A73. Perhaps there is a market for that, but I think Sony are probably right that there is a huge untapped market for something which is noticeable smaller and lighter.
And remember, you may care about the a .7 mag viewfinder (and so, actually, do I) and be prepared for a bit more size. But others care about other things, and would be prepared to put up with a bit more size (bigger screen, more size, bigger grip, more size, front dial = bigger grip = more size, more buttons....(well, actually they probably could have put in one more button, assuming the body integrity is fine and there's internal space), another card slot = more size, faster shutter speed = more size; joystick as well as AF-ON = more size...
If I had to pick only one of these it would be the VF; but others would pick other things. Do them all and you are back to the A73. Do none and you have something smaller enough to make a difference.
This body is smaller and lighter than an A7c; but only just enough I think to make a difference to the market segments that it's meant to tap into. So I see why they didn't do any of these things.
p.55 #13 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Fred Miranda wrote:
There was one reviewer saying it didn't have that option. Would like to confirm it as well.
Have seen this claimed in a couple of places.
But actually, now that there's no DR penalty for E-shutter mostly, I don't really see that there are many use cases for EFCS.
You can use e-shutter almost all the time.
At high shutter speeds stopping fast action you might want to switch to mechanical shutter to prevent rolling shutter, but at high shutter speeds there is no vibration problem with full mechanical. And at high shutter speeds EFCS can create artefacts anway.
I guess slow shutter speeds in artificial light where you don't want to use e-shutter because of banding and mechanical might cause a bit of vibration is the main case, though EFCS can sometimes band a bit too...
EDIT
I think I got this wrong.
It's not that it doesn't have EFCS, it's that it doesn't have full mechanical!, which is a bit more annoying as per my post below.
I should have read the post from Fred I quoted earlier: doesn't have the option to disable EFCS. I just stupidly assumed this was because there was no EFCS; but of course much more plausible that it's because there is no mechanical! And that makes a lot of sense as something that might happen when trying to design a compact shutter assembly.
p.55 #14 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
nhsonyshooter wrote:
It's this image that really gives you an appreciation for how much they crammed inside. I was holding off on the A7c for a high mp sensor and better EVF version. But not sure now they can put a better EVF in without making something bigger.
I'm starting to think you may be right; those of us interested in the C series may have to get used to .6 mag as the price for at least a generation or two. I think they could put a higher resolution evf in, though. This would't help much when viewing the whole image, given the magnification, but it might be a little better in magnified view, depending on how the system works. It would be ideal, given the EVF magnification, if the magnified view had a slightly greater magnification so the apparent size of magnified details is the same on the .6 evf as on the .7 one.
Sep 20, 2020 at 07:04 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.55 #15 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
DavidBM wrote:
I'm guessing they were already worried that the size was too big for their intended audience; any larger and you may as well make a full size A73 or maybe a rangefinder styled body that is no smaller than an A73. Perhaps there is a market for that, but I think Sony are probably right that there is a huge untapped market for something which is noticeable smaller and lighter.
And remember, you may care about the a .7 mag viewfinder (and so, actually, do I) and be prepared for a bit more size. But others care about other things, and would be prepared to put up with a bit more size (bigger screen, more size, bigger grip, more size, front dial = bigger grip = more size, more buttons....(well, actually they probably could have put in one more button, assuming the body integrity is fine and there's internal space), another card slot = more size, faster shutter speed = more size; joystick as well as AF-ON = more size...
If I had to pick only one of these it would be the VF; but others would pick other things. Do them all and you are back to the A73. Do none and you have something smaller enough to make a difference.
This body is smaller and lighter than an A7c; but only just enough I think to make a difference to the market segments that it's meant to tap into. So I see why they didn't do any of these things....Show more →
Summarizes very nicely how I feel about this camera.
p.55 #16 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Chris at DPR talked about the EVF in his hands-on video. It seems like eye placement relative to the EVF is critical, just like it is on the dark little APSC OVF-tunnels of the 20D era.
Still, I'm keeping an open mind about it until I get my paws on the camera.
p.55 #17 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
JohanEickmeyer wrote:
Sorry if this has already be concluded, but is it true that this camera has no option to disable EFCS? Besides bokeh issues, this can also present a major issue when stitching panoramas at higher shutter speeds. The ND grad effect causes a stepping from shot to shot that messing things up. Going electron shutter helps the ND grad effect but ruins DR.
How high do the shutter speeds have to be to see the effect? I've shot plenty of panos with EFCS and never had a problem.
p.55 #18 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
New poster here, can't quote DavidBM above.
It is my understanding that the a7C does not allow one to disable EFCS, because the mechanical shutter might not even have a front curtain (downsizing).
p.55 #19 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
freaklikeme wrote:
How high do the shutter speeds have to be to see the effect? I've shot plenty of panos with EFCS and never had a problem.
It shows up over 1/1000 sec, and would only be visible in steps if shooting a horizontal panorama in portrait orientation. Software can hide the effect, but has to locally push or pull the exposure to blend it all together. It can amount to around a 1 stop ND grad effect at 1/4000 sec.
p.55 #20 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
I think Sony would have been better off leaving the EVF out of this camera and instead add the best and brightest rear screen they could get into there. Smartphones are using ultra-bright screens these days that work well in sunlight and have little or no bezel. Cameras are still stuck in tech from a few generations back.
