p.56 #1 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
NunoC wrote:
New poster here, can't quote DavidBM above.
It is my understanding that the a7C does not allow one to disable EFCS, because the mechanical shutter might not even have a front curtain (downsizing).
p.56 #2 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
JohanEickmeyer wrote:
It shows up over 1/1000 sec, and would only be visible in steps if shooting a horizontal panorama in portrait orientation. Software can hide the effect, but has to locally push or pull the exposure to blend it all together. It can amount to around a 1 stop ND grad effect at 1/4000 sec.
That explains why I haven't seen it. I can see where it would be an issue, trying to pano around a crowd, but I rarely even come close to 1/1000.
p.56 #4 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
JohanEickmeyer wrote:
Cameras are still stuck in tech from a few generations back.
So are 99.99% of vehicles in the world with wheels dating back centuries. For a good reason in most cases.
Just held my phone up to compose a photo for comparison. It's not raining in my office, but I realized my EVF or OVF rarely get drops in light to moderate rain, but my phone and camera LCDs get wet and messy in rainy weather. Sometimes the touch screen doesn't even work right when they are wet.
An EVF also allows prompt adjustments without blocking the composed scene.
p.56 #5 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
jmmaher wrote:
What is the problem with EFCS and Godox flashes?
I find they frequently won't fire, or do fire but the syc is out so the image is black.
I've seen others say the same. I don't know the explanation, or know if it happens with all firmware/body/flash combinations.
p.56 #6 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Looking at the spec sheet, I wonder if DavidBM is right. The way it's mentioned it seems there's no EFSC, which is a weird ommission. I mean, I could understand how not having a mechanical front curtain might lead to a simpler/smaller/lighter design. Skipping the EFCS... I dunno. Maybe the mechanical shutter is sufficiently slower that the ND grad effect of EFCS becomes too pronounced?
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p.56 #8 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
NunoC wrote:
Looking at the spec sheet, I wonder if DavidBM is right. The way it's mentioned it seems there's no EFSC, which is a weird ommission. I mean, I could understand how not having a mechanical front curtain might lead to a simpler/smaller/lighter design. Skipping the EFCS... I dunno. Maybe the mechanical shutter is sufficiently slower that the ND grad effect of EFCS becomes too pronounced?
That is interesting that they don't list electronic first curtain shutter. I would rather have a full mechanical shutter for when I wanted it and no EFCS. When I really need EFCS, to reduce vibrations, I can pretty much in every instance use the full electronic shutter as long as it doesn't reduce DR. There are times, however, when an electronic shutter won't replace the full mechanical one (high speed shooting at wide apertures of relatively fast moving subjects, when there is banding caused by lights, for flash as people have mentioned), so I hope it is just that there isn't EFCS. I would see this as no big deal and especially if the camera doesn't lose DR with the electronic shutter. Anyone know if the A7 III does? Bill Claff does not indicate that it does, but I don't know if he tested it.
p.56 #9 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Maybe Sony felt the shutter is too slow to allow an EFSC. Flash sync speed seems to suggest that (1/160s for the a7C vs 1/250s for all the other a7xs).
Personally, I believe - without knowing it for sure or having tried it out - that there are currently still considerable restrictions such as a noticeable reduction of the dynamic range with the silent shutter.
But I don't need the silent shutter at all, so I didn't pursue this any further.
I generally use the EFCS for everything except for portraits ("bokeh images") with very fast shutter speeds. In particular, I found a better sharpness with EFCS even on tripod than with mechanical shutter, at least with some of the lenses I tested, shutter speeds slower than 1 / 500sec (depending on the lens).
I can live with all the limitations of the A7C, including the viewfinder and the lack of control Elements.
But, the dynamic range, the noise behavior and the bokeh must be at least on the level of the A7III. If I can't choose between EFCS / a lossless silent shutter and the mechanical shutter (because of the bokeh), then I simply can't buy the A7C.
Sep 21, 2020 at 09:38 AM
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p.56 #11 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Steve Spencer wrote:
That is interesting that they don't list electronic first curtain shutter. I would rather have a full mechanical shutter for when I wanted it and no EFCS. When I really need EFCS, to reduce vibrations, I can pretty much in every instance use the full electronic shutter as long as it doesn't reduce DR. There are times, however, when an electronic shutter won't replace the full mechanical one (high speed shooting at wide apertures of relatively fast moving subjects, when there is banding caused by lights, for flash as people have mentioned), so I hope it is just that there isn't EFCS. I would see this as no big deal and especially if the camera doesn't lose DR with the electronic shutter. Anyone know if the A7 III does? Bill Claff does not indicate that it does, but I don't know if he tested it....Show more →
To answer my own question, Jim Kasson has tested the different shutter modes on the a7 III for DR here:
It looks like full electronic shutter has no effect on DR, and since the A7C seems to have the same sensor it seems likely that shooting in full electronic shutter would introduce no DR penalty compared to EFCS or the mechanical shutter. If that is true I have no problem doing away with EFCS, I would just use the electronic shutter in those cases where I would want to use EFCS.
p.56 #13 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
JohanEickmeyer wrote:
I think Sony would have been better off leaving the EVF out of this camera and instead add the best and brightest rear screen they could get into there. Smartphones are using ultra-bright screens these days that work well in sunlight and have little or no bezel. Cameras are still stuck in tech from a few generations back.
Sony historically has used the cheapest & crappiest rear LCD's they could get away with. It's been a weak point of the A series since the original A7.
Other manufacturers are using much nicer LCD's, Nikon in particular has had some VERY nice LCD's on cameras like the D850 and Z6/7. None quite on par with the phone LCD's, but those LCD's are not generally available in the 3-3.2" sizes used by our cameras and I don't think we're ready yet to go to full camera back sized screens or to deal with the power draw of those screens (they are quite high power draw compared to the already thirsty screens we have now)
p.56 #14 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
mawz wrote:
Sony historically has used the cheapest & crappiest rear LCD's they could get away with. It's been a weak point of the A series since the original A7.
Other manufacturers are using much nicer LCD's, Nikon in particular has had some VERY nice LCD's on cameras like the D850 and Z6/7. None quite on par with the phone LCD's, but those LCD's are not generally available in the 3-3.2" sizes used by our cameras and I don't think we're ready yet to go to full camera back sized screens or to deal with the power draw of those screens (they are quite high power draw compared to the already thirsty screens we have now)...Show more →
I'd much rather have a better viewfinder than LCD. Hardly ever use the LCD...use the viewfinder all the time.
p.56 #16 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
mawz wrote:
I use both equally, EVF maybe 70% of the time handheld but LCD 95% of the time on the tripod.
So I want both to be good.
Shooting off a tripod using the LCD on any of my cameras ( Sony & Canon ) I have no complaints...other than I wish they'd swivel out when in portrait orientation. I zoom in for critical focus and they all allow for this. Sure, it would be nice to have a higher resolution LCD...but the one's on my existing cameras don't hold me up.
Now for the viewfinder which I use for non tripod images...I stare through the viewfinder for hours a day...any improvements here would really benefit me.
p.56 #17 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
After letting the dust settle a bit, I am quite happy about this camera.
I doubt I'll buy one on account of the EVF, but Sony's direction is good here--SAR reports that Sony feels this will win over the DSLR and APS-C crowd. Meaning, this isn't aimed at us. We knew that, but to me, this importantly shows that Sony didn't misjudge what still shooters want, they deliberately designed a camera to function as a high-level bridge camera to get people into e-mount.
I would be very surprised if we don't see a follow up relatively soon, with the common things people here want: better EVF, higher MP, more buttons, a joystick, etc.
This release reminds me a little of Sony after it took over Minolta with SLT's. They were blazing a new segment. Those cameras had some very real advantages, and very real disadvantages, and the cameras were a bit odd and Sony was largely criticized as a tech company masquerading as a photo company. Sony also had this with the a7 series, which matured and really was superb by the 3rd gen. In both cases, there was nothing strictly comparable on the market and it started with these non-refined releases. Each time, they took several iterations to "get it right", but Sony's risk and experimentation paid off massively.
I think this a7c is similar. It's going to get some people annoyed, it's a bit of a Frankenstein currently, but I think with a couple more cameras in the C line and refinements, Sony will be killing it and is ahead of the curve.
p.56 #18 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
chez wrote:
Shooting off a tripod using the LCD on any of my cameras ( Sony & Canon ) I have no complaints...other than I wish they'd swivel out when in portrait orientation. I zoom in for critical focus and they all allow for this. Sure, it would be nice to have a higher resolution LCD...but the one's on my existing cameras don't hold me up.
I've generally found the Sony LCD's struggle in light where my Nikon's & Fuji's are still pretty visible. It's not the resolution as much as the brightness in bright light. More resolution would be nice too, but the daylight readability on the Sony's is inferior to similar cost bodies from other manufacturers in my experience.
I do agree on the portrait orientation articulation. It's one major reason why I prefer the X-T2 for landscape work over the A7II or D750 despite the higher IQ sensor in those bodies. I do a lot of low-angle portrait orientation shots.
Now for the viewfinder which I use for non tripod images...I stare through the viewfinder for hours a day...any improvements here would really benefit me.
p.56 #19 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
The more pics and videos I see of the A7C, the more it's starting to grow on me. The EVF is a tad bigger than the one on the Olympus Pen-F and I had no problem using that EVF, so the one on the A7C should be okay, especially for travel. This body fits way better with the Samyang compact series AF primes and now I'm itching to reinvest in some M-mount glass like the new TTArtisans 50mm f/1.4 that's coming out. This camera could also replace my 1" series cameras due to the form factor, giving me an all FF mirrorless solution. From fast (A9) to compact (A7C).
p.56 #20 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
I use both Sony mirrorless and Nikon dslr aps-c gear. I don't frequent SAR so not sure how it was expressed that the A7c will win over those contingents.
The A7C and 28-60 doesn't really do a lot for me, given what I have and my interests. A predominantly "urban," say a couple of cities and surrounding areas in Europe, the A7Rii and Tamron 17-28/2.8 might be a better fit if not doing a complete replacement of my kits in some way. If I was going to Yellowstone, I'd be looking at the xxx-600 zooms.
