p.33 #1 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Good idea, so-so implementation. I look at it like the OG A7, was small and had ok specs...but usability was problem. By gen II they addressed most of the issues, and by gen III almost all were solved. Probably won't be buying this unless the rumored price is way off and it's really $999-1200 (and there's more small primes coming), but I might revisit it in 3 or 4 years when they fix some of the small things ergonomically (ie. a joystick and front dial first and foremost).
Specs are pretty laughable (by 2020 standards) to be honest, but I imagine if this is a new line to run concurrent with the main A7's that this is probably the cheapest/entry level model. An "R" version will probably be much better.
p.33 #2 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
I think we just have to resolve ourselves to the probability that Sony doesn’t have a whole lot of different ideas for this form factor—at least not yet.
For me the two most appropriate applications are travel and landscape/hiking.
But for both this camera will fall short in terms of usability and form. Missing buttons and missing joystick are the first dagger. The second is the substandard evf. The third and final is the sensor.
Others may be disappointed in the video spec or the menus.
I think what baffles us all is that Sony didn’t need to make a gen 1 camera again when they already had ~3.5 generations of 4 different camera lines in full frame and lord knows how many aps-c cams. All they had to do was import the features they had built to in those other camera lines latest gen offerings.
All this leads me to believe the pricing is going to be entry level. $1400.
tdlavigne wrote:
Good idea, so-so implementation. I look at it like the OG A7, was small and had ok specs...but usability was problem. By gen II they addressed most of the issues, and by gen III almost all were solved. Probably won't be buying this unless the rumored price is way off and it's really $999-1200 (and there's more small primes coming), but I might revisit it in 3 or 4 years when they fix some of the small things ergonomically (ie. a joystick and front dial first and foremost).
Specs are pretty laughable (by 2020 standards) to be honest, but I imagine if this is a new line to run concurrent with the main A7's that this is probably the cheapest/entry level model. An "R" version will probably be much better. ...Show more →
p.33 #3 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Steve Spencer wrote:
I think for this camera, the two numbers that Fred quoted are related 2.4 M dots and 424g. The lower res EVF let's them keep the camera smaller and lighter. This camera is meant to be small and light, and a higher res sensor would make it less so. Don't worry, I think you will be quite happy when the A7 IV comes out in the next six months to a year, then Sony will have a nice set of cameras with price points that I think will make pretty decent sense--the A7 III for about $1,500, this A7c with similar capabilities but smaller for $2,000, and a much more capable A7 IV for $2,500 or so. I think many here who don't like the A7c, might love the A7 IV, which will very likely have a better EVF, will very likely have the A7s III processor and menus, and may even have a 42MP sensor. If that camera is what I expect, then I think very few people will be disappointed with it.
In the mean time, those of us who want a small camera can be happy with this one. This small camera becomes the base model, and the A7 IV becomes a mid level model between the base model and the high level models that are more specialized (high res, action oriented, and video oriented) and that mid level model makes it very hard for something like the Canon R5 or the Nikon Z7s to get much traction because it competes well with them at a substantially lower price....Show more →
The whole reason I was initially excited was because of the smaller body. Why would I want the larger A7iv. I have an A7riv I don't need another bigger body. Besides your telling me a higher quality EVF is technically not possible without adding alot of weight? Sorry, don't buy that. It was simply a cost savings measure. Nothing more nothing less. Glad for those that are happy with this camera. Unfortunately I have been waiting 5 years for an Rx1riii and thought this camera might fill that purpose. It doesn't. I'll just keep waiting I guess.
p.33 #4 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
An A9c would really interest me. With that, a limited mechanical shutter should be acceptable.
tdlavigne wrote:
Good idea, so-so implementation. I look at it like the OG A7, was small and had ok specs...but usability was problem. By gen II they addressed most of the issues, and by gen III almost all were solved. Probably won't be buying this unless the rumored price is way off and it's really $999-1200 (and there's more small primes coming), but I might revisit it in 3 or 4 years when they fix some of the small things ergonomically (ie. a joystick and front dial first and foremost).
Specs are pretty laughable (by 2020 standards) to be honest, but I imagine if this is a new line to run concurrent with the main A7's that this is probably the cheapest/entry level model. An "R" version will probably be much better. ...Show more →
p.33 #5 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
don't think there's a better camera comming down the road, at least not if they use this chassis, there's no room for a bigger optics on the EVF and the grip at most could fit a dial in there, but they won't be able to put dual cards or even the SD+CFe module and the entire back panel would have to be redesigned from scratch
maybe this could've been fine if they put the 36/42mp as a replacement of the rII, even with all the low specs and body constraints it would be justifiable, but still there wouldn't be a good solution for the EVF and cards situation
p.33 #6 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
I'll probably buy this and trade to the A7RC when it's available. I feel I have to support Sony building a camera with the form factor I want even if the resolution isn't yet as high as I would prefer.
p.33 #7 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Justin Stone wrote:
I think we just have to resolve ourselves to the probability that Sony doesn’t have a whole lot of different ideas for this form factor—at least not yet.
For me the two most appropriate applications are travel and landscape/hiking.
But for both this camera will fall short in terms of usability and form. Missing buttons and missing joystick are the first dagger. The second is the substandard evf. The third and final is the sensor.
Others may be disappointed in the video spec or the menus.
I think what baffles us all is that Sony didn’t need to make a gen 1 camera again when they already had ~3.5 generations of 4 different camera lines in full frame and lord knows how many aps-c cams. All they had to do was import the features they had built to in those other camera lines latest gen offerings.
All this leads me to believe the pricing is going to be entry level. $1400.
the sensor is fine, and wasnt used to it's full potential in the A7iii, unless you're wanting higher mpix
Sep 14, 2020 at 07:07 PM
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p.33 #8 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
nhsonyshooter wrote:
The whole reason I was initially excited was because of the smaller body. Why would I want the larger A7iv. I have and A7riv I don't need another bigger body. Besides your telling me a higher quality EVF is technically not possible without adding alot of weight? Sorry, don't buy that. It was simply a cost savings measure. Nothing more nothing less. Glad for those that are happy with these camera. Unfortunately I have been waiting 5 years for an Rx1riii and thought this camera might fill that purpose. It doesn't. I'll just keep waiting I guess.
Well, maybe you won't be more happy with an A7r IV. I think it will have snappier performance and better AF than your A7r IV, but it won't have its resolution. Given your apparent strong dislike and rejection of a 2.36 M dot EVF, I don't think you are going to like any smaller Sony camera either. I just don't think we will see a smaller size camera like the A7c with a bigger EVF. Even if they make and A7cr, I don't think it will have a bigger EVF. Neither you or I know what Sony could have done, but we both know what it seems they are doing and their smaller camera looks like it is coming out with a lower resolution EVF. That doesn't bother me too much, but I guess it bothers you. So, I guess you may not be happy with too much that Sony brings out in the lower end of their FF cameras.
p.33 #9 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Justin Stone wrote:
I think we just have to resolve ourselves to the probability that Sony doesn’t have a whole lot of different ideas for this form factor—at least not yet.
For me the two most appropriate applications are travel and landscape/hiking.
But for both this camera will fall short in terms of usability and form. Missing buttons and missing joystick are the first dagger. The second is the substandard evf. The third and final is the sensor.
Others may be disappointed in the video spec or the menus.
I think what baffles us all is that Sony didn’t need to make a gen 1 camera again when they already had ~3.5 generations of 4 different camera lines in full frame and lord knows how many aps-c cams. All they had to do was import the features they had built to in those other camera lines latest gen offerings.
All this leads me to believe the pricing is going to be entry level. $1400. ...Show more →
it's just unbelievable to think that they had this one running along with the SIII development, and the feature that they allowed to pass thru was that REC button and only that, not a single thing
p.33 #10 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Actually, I feel that I should buy the Panasonic S5 to nudge Sony to make something decent.
lightskyland wrote:
I'll probably buy this and trade to the A7RC when it's available. I feel I have to support Sony building a camera with the form factor I want even if the resolution isn't yet as high as I would prefer.
p.33 #11 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Steve Spencer wrote:
For me it is the smaller size and lighter weight. That is it.
I understand. I guess I just find that say, the difference in size and weight between a nikon d500 and the a9 or aR series is fairly substantial. They are also about the same as an m43's G9. Sonys are already fairly small, especially before the riv. The difference here seems minimal in comparison to the change from slr.
p.33 #12 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
I think one thing always to keep in mind is costs versus size and weight ratios. We all want small but than it comes up what are you willing to pay for it and is 150 grams to much to hold or whatever that may be
p.33 #13 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
shadow9d9 wrote:
I understand. I guess I just find that say, the difference in size and weight between a nikon d500 and the a9 or aR series is fairly substantial. They are also about the same as an m43's G9. Sonys are already fairly small, especially before the riv. The difference here seems minimal in comparison to the change from slr.
Actually the size / weight difference between the A7c and A7r4 is pretty close to the size difference between the A7R4 and d500. I have both the A7R3 and A7R...and I can definitely feel the difference in size and weight.
p.33 #14 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
I'm unimpressed in the corner-cutting on this one if the leaked price is right.
Two specs are interesting to me.
1. That 0.59x finder. Really Sony? That's not just worst in class, it's Olympus DSLR level bad. The 2.39MP finder would have been acceptable if they'd delivered acceptable magnification, but it's got both the bare minimum finder spec in terms of resolution and far and away the worst magnification on the market. For those saying there isn't room for better optics in the EVF, the A6600 has the same effective magnification as the A7II, just with a reduced eyepoint. The A7c has a a short 17.5mm eyepoints and a decidedly worse finder spec than any of the APS-C bodies except the A6100 (and even then only because of the ancient 1.44MP panel Sony used in the A6100, a panel that was arguably obsolete when the NEX-6 was introduced)
2. The electronic shutter is used to achieve 1/8000. Nice that Sony finally joins the 'use the electronic shutter to extend the range' but that's 2 stops shy of what Fuji is delivering on $600 bodies in this area. Might just be a readout limitation though, it's simply easier to do that on smaller sensors. Sync is a poor 1/160th though. Definitely the cheap shutter going in here.
Also noting the RAW buffer is excellent at 115 frames. That's a lot better than the competition (Yeah, the Z5 is bufferless, but it's limited to a 100 frame burst in all file formats and is less than half the speed of the A7c)
This body needs to be a LOT cheaper than the leaked price to be competitive. I'm talking Z5 pricing. The small is nice, but Sony cut corners everywhere with this body. Low-end LCD, trash EVF, cheap shutter, etc.
Small is nice, and potentially very interesting, but this spec list is an exercise how to do a camera for the Z5's pricepoint without compromising AF/sensor performance.
They did get size/weight right though. 424g is very competitive without bringing fp type limitations. Honestly aside from the finder I like the specs overall. But they needed to step up, not down. And there's far smaller bodies with larger finders out there (E-M10's for example).
p.33 #15 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
shadow9d9 wrote:
I understand. I guess I just find that say, the difference in size and weight between a nikon d500 and the a9 or aR series is fairly substantial. They are also about the same as an m43's G9. Sonys are already fairly small, especially before the riv. The difference here seems minimal in comparison to the change from slr.
Hmmmm....holding the my a7s and an a7r4 is immediately noticeable and I would say substantial. Even with the a7riii I owned, I had to bump up my usual carrying cases.
p.33 #16 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
There seems to be a lot of confusion and inconsistency in this thread.
It's always tempting to think that something that doesn't meet our own needs and desires is an outrage, or would be acceptable only at a low price.
I'm pretty impressed with what I can see of the A7c, especially now I see they have got the body down to 425g.
Some of use think that's too small a different to matter. Well, whether it matters depends on what you use it for and how much you care.
Technically it's impressive indeed. It also explains why there are various things that we complain about (EVF magnification, grip size etc etc.
But as anyone who has done much ultralight hiking knows, weight reductions are achieved by cutting every little thing. With each one you think "damn, surely it's wort the extra five grams for a better gimcrack!" Somehow it maybe is for each one. But not for every one - then you are back to the heavier pack you didn't want.
Of course for each of us, there is probably one thing that *we* would rather keep a bit bigger, while having the overall reduction in weight compromised only a little (for me it's the joystick, I'd take an extra 10g or so for the joystick, any modifications required to the body to make it work). And maybe some of these could be done with only minor weight gain.
But of course for each of us it is a different thing that we'd rather pay a bit more for and have more weight for, so that doesn't help the manufacturer.
For me I'll pass on this one: it wold be my hiking cam, and I want my wilderness images to have the same resolution advantages as the rest of them, since I probably care more about the IQ of those than other images. But I'm totally in when a 60MP variant comes out, even if there are no other changes.
But if I were happy with an A7iii I think I'd prefer the A7c; yes there are downsides, but balanced for me - but not for others of course - by the size. And if I were shooting street or informal portraiture or anything like that, this would be the cam for me.
(I also wonder how many M mount enthusiasts will rush to get a Kolari mod version of this)
p.33 #18 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
It's up on DPReview. $1799USD, $2099 with the 28-60. Specs as in the SAR leak.
My take remains that this is pretty much a $1399, maybe as much as a $1599, camera that's been overpriced. Overall solid specs, compromised by a viewfinder that is unjustifiably low magnification. Vloggers and the LCD-bound won't care, EVF users will be very unimpressed when looking at this alongside everything else, even an E-M10IV looks decidedly better in terms of projected viewfinder size (and that's a notably smaller body all-around at far less cost).
The kit lens is neat. While the range is not as useful as Nikon's 24-50, it is actually smaller & lighter than the already diminutive Nikkor, some 6mm shorter when collapsed and 20g lighter as well. Paired with something like the Samyang 18, this will work pretty well.
The little wee remote flash is really neat. That's a complete winner for Sony.
I did notice that about half the images or video in the livestream of somebody using a viewfinder were clearly of other Alpha's.
I expect the A7c will sell, but the volume will be lower than Sony expects until the price drops.
Note no inkling of a new lens line, just the known kit zoom. Sony needs to get a new roadmap out there if they want to sell compact lenses. They should also kit this with the ZA 35/2.8 as an alternative to the 28-60.
Honestly, if this had come with the FW50 battery and the A6600 EVF, I'd have called it a winner at $1799. They went better on the battery at least.
p.33 #19 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Good thing to see that apparently the first impressions from the press are mostly pretty meh about this camera, but hopefully Sony understands why it's flawed and doesn't completely dump the concept, they just need to do the homework and forget they ever made this chassis
