AJay wrote:
The way I see it, why reward Canon and buy their R5 if the camera doesn't live up to our expectations? If people would not buy the camera as it is, Canon would fix/remedy the problems. If people buy the camera as-is, they won't correct the problem.
It's a fantastic stills camera, but if that's all it is, it's way overpriced.
Even if you use only low quality 4k modes so that it doesn't overheat, it's still overpriced. It's basicly a 5D Mark IV in a mirrorless body.
I get that 8k overheats. I get that 120p 4k overheats.
What I don't get is why it takes hours to recover.
I also don't like their impossible-to-edit codec files.
Canon's done these things to protect their cinema line and it sucks.
I could have had this camera by now, but cancelled my order many weeks ago. I'm not about to reward Canon by buying an expensive stills camera.
IF they uncripple the camera in new firmware, I'll reconsider but I'm not buying this camera as-is. ...Show more →
Crippling the FW was exposed as fake news days ago. Why are you still bringing this up?
It is overpriced? I guess the 5D4 was overpriced as well. I should have not sold my 5D4 because I didn't know it had state of the art animal and human eye focus. I couldn't find the 12/20 fps either. Darn 45mp with 16ms readout speed. I wish they had kept it at 80ms like my R so I could save money. 8K video for short periods of time is perfect for the hobbyist like me. I'm not going to film a perched bird for 2 hours. If I did I couldn't afford the hardware to process it.
5D4 = $3,500. R5 = $3900. Adjust $200 for inflation. Let's take a look at reality. You know what is happening out there? People are climbing over each other trying to get one. I hope you don't buy so someone who will appreciate it will.
Crippling the FW was exposed as fake news days ago. Why are you still bringing this up?
Fake news tends to float as active longer than reliable facts because the former is more outrageous and causes stronger reactions, and the reactions are what is used by algorithms as a measure of interesting content, so it stays in the headlines. As a result of this, people often miss the publication of the correct story, and stay unaware of it. In addition to algorithms, some social media "influencers" apply the same principle and hide or delete the corrections in order to push their agenda, which can sometimes be untrue, whether they are aware of it or not.
bobbytan wrote:
Is Canon aware of the numerous complaints of over-heating, even for stills? Has anyone spoken to Canon and are they trying to do something about this - or do they think the complaints are unjustified and they are taking no action?
I am still wondering if I should cancel my pre-order until the problem is fixed.
There are 3 different temperature warning indicators in the R5. Two of these are general camera overheating warnings and are indicated by white and red thermometer icons. The third is a video-specific overheating warning with a camera next to a thermometer. All of these are documented in the manual:
Note that the general camera temperature warnings (red or white thermometer icon) are not new to the R5, the EOS R also had similar warnings mentioned in its manual. Only the video-specific temperature warning (that includes the video camera icon) is new to the R5.
Of the overheating reports I have seen so far, nearly all of them were the video-specific overheating warning, which is only displayed when the camera is in one of the high-spec video modes that can overheat (4K 30 HQ, 4K 60, 4K 120, or 8K). Even in the EOSHD report mentioned a few posts above, the camera was switched into 8K video mode before the video overheating warning appeared. The temperature warning was not displayed in stills mode.
I have only seen a couple of cases reported where the general camera temperature warning was displayed (and one of these seemed to be due to a battery problem). Obviously it is still relatively early days for the R5 and the camera has not started shipping in huge volumes yet, but of the cameras that are in users hands so far, there have not been widespread reports of overheating in stills mode (the red or white thermometer icon).
Having said that, what people have been surprised to find is that if they use the camera in stills mode, then switch into one of the high-spec video modes (4K HQ, 4K 60, 4K 120, or 8K), there may be little to no video record time available in these modes before the camera will display the video overheating warning (video camera + thermometer icon) and eventually shut down. When that happens, it is possible to turn the camera back on again in stills mode and continue taking stills, as only video recording is impacted by the video-specific overheating warning.
So based on what we know so far, at least for shooting stills, the R5 does not seem to be significantly less reliable than Canon's other mirrorless cameras to-date.
Now video mode on the camera is obviously a different story. But even there, it depends on which video formats are used. The lower-spec modes (HD and regular 4K 30) don't really overheat, while the higher-spec modes (4K 30 HQ, 4K 60, 4K 120, or 8K) clearly have significant overheating limitations.
Why buy the camera in spite of the over-heating problem? Because (a) it's a fantastic stills camera, and (b) the over-heating is not a major problem for stills - which is all that I do - I don't shoot video, period. Is the R5 overpriced? I don't think so, and most people would agree with this judging by the over-whelming success of this camera. The R5 is hybrid of the 1Dx III and 5Ds or 5D IV i.e. it's the best and most loaded camera (specs and feature-wise) that Canon has ever released. Even with the over-heating problem, very few people are cancelling their pre-orders. That says a lot.
But I am still thinking about cancelling my pre-order as I don't want to have to bother returning the camera if there should be a recall. So I would like to know what Canon is thinking about doing to resolve this issue.
AJay wrote:
The way I see it, why reward Canon and buy their R5 if the camera doesn't live up to our expectations? If people would not buy the camera as it is, Canon would fix/remedy the problems. If people buy the camera as-is, they won't correct the problem.
It's a fantastic stills camera, but if that's all it is, it's way overpriced.
Even if you use only low quality 4k modes so that it doesn't overheat, it's still overpriced. It's basicly a 5D Mark IV in a mirrorless body.
I get that 8k overheats. I get that 120p 4k overheats.
What I don't get is why it takes hours to recover.
I also don't like their impossible-to-edit codec files.
Canon's done these things to protect their cinema line and it sucks.
I could have had this camera by now, but cancelled my order many weeks ago. I'm not about to reward Canon by buying an expensive stills camera.
IF they uncripple the camera in new firmware, I'll reconsider but I'm not buying this camera as-is. ...Show more →
I would assume that with most of us on the forum, photography is a hobby rather than a means of livelihood; so missing an occasional shot due to an equipment glitch is merely an annoyance.
For those where photography is a primary source of income, there is one attribute that exceeds any others, be it resolution, DR, etc., etc, and that is ---reliability!!!
Canon's "5" series DSLR bodies offered that "Pro-level" dependability; but the R5 , sadly, does not live up to that reputation.
I think the price is comparatively fair for what it offer's, and I still hope to own one before long; but if I was a Pro Wedding photographer, I'd either "look elsewhere:, or plan on buying 3 or 4 bodies to fill in for the "time outs"
bobbytan wrote:
Why buy the camera in spite of the over-heating problem? Because (a) it's a fantastic stills camera, and (b) the over-heating is not a major problem for stills - which is all that I do - I don't shoot video, period. Is the R5 overpriced? I don't think so, and most people would agree with this judging by the over-whelming success of this camera. Even with the over-heating problem, very few people are cancelling their pre-orders. That says a lot.
But I am still thinking about cancelling my pre-order as I don't want to have to bother returning the camera if there should be a recall. So I would like to know what Canon is thinking about doing to resolve this issue.
I've asked this before. I'm not an engineer but I know two things. Canon said that they would not increase the body size and no fans. They had to make it work within those conditions and I'm pretty sure the engineers weren't too happy about it. People are coming up with all of these great ideas to correct it. So within the given parameters we tore it apart and implemented copper, heart tubes, etc how much extra time would we buy? 2 hrs in 8K before it overheats?
I'd like to see proof that it would work. Maybe they thought of these things and said it will only get another 15 minutes. I only ask because I remember months ago people where asking how are they going to deal with the heat with that size of body. I don't remember anyone saying that will be no problem. Easily done.
bobbytan wrote:
Is Canon aware of the numerous complaints of over-heating, even for stills? [..] On the whole of the interwebs (fredmiranda, dpreview, canonrumors and youtube) I've only see 2 complaints about overheating in stills mode and one of them involved an old battery getting really hot. So is 'numerous' really the same as '2' nowadays?
I agree ... and part of the problem is the amazing weather sealing and polycarbonate body which is trapping the heat. Given the choice between a camera that gets warm (for stills) vs a larger body to accommodate heat sinks, etc. I would opt for the smaller body any day. One useful feature of a warm-to-hot camera - it's great for when you have to shoot in freezing ambient/outside temperature! I will be using this camera when I go to Bosque del Apache this winter. So maybe can shoot without gloves, which is great! It's like having a heated steering wheel!
Zenon Char wrote:
I've asked this before. I'm not an engineer but I know two things. Canon said that they would not increase the body size and no fans. They had to make it work within those conditions and I'm pretty sure the engineers weren't too happy about it. People are coming up with all of these great ideas to correct it. So within the given parameters we tore it apart and implemented copper, heart tubes, etc how much extra time would we buy? 2 hrs in 8K before it overheats?
I'd like to see proof that it would work. Maybe they thought of these things and said it will only get another 15 minutes. I only ask because I remember months ago people where asking how are they going to deal with the heat with that size of body. I don't remember anyone saying that will be no problem. Easily done. ...Show more →
I was referring to ALL complaints - not just from stills photographers. It is because that there only a few (2 according to you) complaints from stills shooters, I am willing to keep my pre-order BUT if a recall is forthcoming I would prefer to cancel my pre-order.
koenkooi wrote:
On the whole of the interwebs (fredmiranda, dpreview, canonrumors and youtube) I've only see 2 complaints about overheating in stills mode and one of them involved an old battery getting really hot. So is 'numerous' really the same as '2' nowadays?
Hey, if I was shooting 90% stills. Great camera. I get it. But for myself, I shoot about 60% stills and 40% slo-mo 4k 120p. Capturing birds in action at 120p 4k is incredible. Currently I use a Z Cam E2 to do that. I was hoping that the R5 could be a great camera for both stills and video. I would absolutely love to only carry/lug one camera body with me with one lens instead of two different camera bodies with two different lenses.
I am disappointed and just thought I would share my thoughts as to why I canceled my order.
AJay wrote:
Hey, if I was shooting 90% stills. Great camera. I get it. But for myself, I shoot about 60% stills and 40% slo-mo 4k 120p. Capturing birds in action at 120p 4k is incredible. Currently I use a Z Cam E2 to do that. I was hoping that the R5 could be a great camera for both stills and video. I would absolutely love to only carry/lug one camera body with me with one lens instead of two different camera bodies with two different lenses.
I am disappointed and just thought I would share my thoughts as to why I canceled my order.
There are 3 different temperature warning indicators in the R5. Two of these are general camera overheating warnings and are indicated by white and red thermometer icons. The third is a video-specific overheating warning with a camera next to a thermometer. All of these are documented in the manual:
Note that the general camera temperature warnings (red or white thermometer icon) are not new to the R5, the EOS R also had similar warnings mentioned in its manual. Only the video-specific temperature warning (that includes the video camera icon) is new to the R5.
Of the overheating reports I have seen so far, nearly all of them were the video-specific overheating warning, which is only displayed when the camera is in one of the high-spec video modes that can overheat (4K 30 HQ, 4K 60, 4K 120, or 8K). Even in the EOSHD report mentioned a few posts above, the camera was switched into 8K video mode before the video overheating warning appeared. The temperature warning was not displayed in stills mode.
I have only seen a couple of cases reported where the general camera temperature warning was displayed (and one of these seemed to be due to a battery problem). Obviously it is still relatively early days for the R5 and the camera has not started shipping in huge volumes yet, but of the cameras that are in users hands so far, there have not been widespread reports of overheating in stills mode (the red or white thermometer icon).
Having said that, what people have been surprised to find is that if they use the camera in stills mode, then switch into one of the high-spec video modes (4K HQ, 4K 60, 4K 120, or 8K), there may be little to no video record time available in these modes before the camera will display the video overheating warning (video camera + thermometer icon) and eventually shut down. When that happens, it is possible to turn the camera back on again in stills mode and continue taking stills, as only video recording is impacted by the video-specific overheating warning.
So based on what we know so far, at least for shooting stills, the R5 does not seem to be significantly less reliable than Canon's other mirrorless cameras to-date.
Now video mode on the camera is obviously a different story. But even there, it depends on which video formats are used. The lower-spec modes (HD and regular 4K 30) don't really overheat, while the higher-spec modes (4K 30 HQ, 4K 60, 4K 120, or 8K) clearly have significant overheating limitations....Show more →
This the reason why I am on the fence about canceling my pre-order. If there are plans to mitigate the heat problem with some modification to the internals, I would much rather wait.
AJay wrote:
Hey, if I was shooting 90% stills. Great camera. I get it. But for myself, I shoot about 60% stills and 40% slo-mo 4k 120p. Capturing birds in action at 120p 4k is incredible. Currently I use a Z Cam E2 to do that. I was hoping that the R5 could be a great camera for both stills and video. I would absolutely love to only carry/lug one camera body with me with one lens instead of two different camera bodies with two different lenses.
I am disappointed and just thought I would share my thoughts as to why I canceled my order.
koenkooi wrote:
On the whole of the interwebs (fredmiranda, dpreview, canonrumors and youtube) I've only see 2 complaints about overheating in stills mode and one of them involved an old battery getting really hot. So is 'numerous' really the same as '2' nowadays?
Here is another guy reporting almost exactly what I did on the first day the camera shipped:
I was referring to ALL complaints - not just from stills photographers. It is because that there only a few (2 according to you) complaints from stills shooters, I am willing to keep my pre-order BUT if a recall is forthcoming I would prefer to cancel my pre-order.
I don't think there is a recall coming because new shipments arrived at dealers on Monday. If Canon was really going to recall I think they would have halted shipments saving themselves money.
Nothing about the cameras is different than what Canon promised and was up front about in the beginning. The limitations are known and now with the Atmos/no card workaround the limitations are much less significant as we thought. They will likely do some FW tweaks to the warning levels like Sony did years back. I just can't see them doing a big redesign of this camera until the Mark II. And when it comes to Canon, Mark IIs are usually 4-5 years out.
bobbytan wrote:
This the reason why I am on the fence about canceling my pre-order. If there are plans to mitigate the heat problem with some modification to the internals, I would much rather wait.
I doubt that will happen. Why would they. They can't keep up to the demand. More than likely FW.
arbitrage wrote:
I don't think there is a recall coming because new shipments arrived at dealers on Monday. If Canon was really going to recall I think they would have halted shipments saving themselves money.
Nothing about the cameras is different than what Canon promised and was up front about in the beginning. The limitations are known and now with the Atmos/no card workaround the limitations are much less significant as we thought. They will likely do some FW tweaks to the warning levels like Sony did years back. I just can't see them doing a big redesign of this camera until the Mark II. And when it comes to Canon, Mark IIs are usually 4-5 years out....Show more →
That is definitely not true. After shooting stills only the other day for 1-2 hours in the shade the camera shows 7 min 4k 120?!?!? After two 10 second clips it shows ZERO recording time left!?!? Where does Canon list these things?
Andrew J wrote:
That is definitely not true. After shooting stills only the other day for 1-2 hours in the shade the camera shows 7 min 4k 120?!?!? After two 10 second clips it shows ZERO recording time left!?!? Where does Canon list these things?
You are correct about that, they didn't tell us that general use of the camera would also shut down the record times of the high end video modes. I still don't think they will be motivated to do a recall on that basis alone though. I still think a FW is likely to allow some more recording times. The limitations seem too arbitrary and FW should be able to make up for some of it without damaging the camera or people's hands.
arbitrage wrote:
I don't think there is a recall coming because new shipments arrived at dealers on Monday. If Canon was really going to recall I think they would have halted shipments saving themselves money.
Nothing about the cameras is different than what Canon promised and was up front about in the beginning. The limitations are known and now with the Atmos/no card workaround the limitations are much less significant as we thought. They will likely do some FW tweaks to the warning levels like Sony did years back. I just can't see them doing a big redesign of this camera until the Mark II. And when it comes to Canon, Mark IIs are usually 4-5 years out. ...Show more →
Canon can revise the firmware to increase the temperature set points and perhaps reduce power consumption, which will also help. Another option is to create a modified version (R5V?) for the video market. They did that in the 5D IV with Logs camera, though that was only a minor change.
I just spoke with Canon Customer Support and, as expected, he couldn't tell me if Canon is planning to do anything about the heating issue with video. When I told him there are "many" complaints on photo forums about the camera getting a bit hot shooting stills only, he told me they have not received any complaints from any stills photographer ... so he couldn't offer me any further information or advice on the matter.
I hope you don't buy so someone who will appreciate it will. 
