Andrew J wrote:
Thanks Rob. The warning I got was a small flame at the top of the viewfinder. Some people might see that and just ignore it. I don't expect everyone's shooting style to have overheating. I just don't see how anyone is going to get a high frame-rate with anything other than the custom R5 battery LP-E6NH.
I will get a grip to get more runtime and get that heat out of the inside of the camera.
Everything else I like about the camera. Even the high ISO shots look really great.
Honestly I would return the camera if I was in your situation. This overheating issue with stills is something that has not been mentioned by reviewers. All of this overheating has seem to center around shooting video. You have been the first documented case that I have read about with stills so to be safe I would return it and make sure this is not an issue with your specific camera. If you pick up another one and you are still have overheating issues with stills then we know this is a more prevalent issue.
Also, I am sure all of us are now keeping an eye out to see if anyone else is having an issue with overheating when it comes to stills. I shoot mainly stills so your case has me concerned.
lighthound wrote:
Thanks for the heads up Andy. I'll be keeping a close eye on this thread as well as my batteries.
I also used my 90D LP-E6N battery (fully charged) last evening while I was charging the R5 battery. I pretty much had the camera on for a few hours while I played around with menu settings and then went outside in the SC heat/humidity to experiment a little before the sun went down. 390 clicks total using both ES and MS modes, No video.
I did not have any heat warnings and everything seemed fine from I could tell. I did notice a very slight warmth on the back when I went to flip the screen out but I assume that is normal for mirrorless bodies.
I had a 100mm 2.8 and my 500II mounted to it during this time. By the time I got back in the house and removed both the CFE (Sandisk 128gb extreme Pro) and SD cards they seemed normal temp.
Due to this thread, I registered both the LP-E6N as well as the new LP-E6NH batteries in camera to keep track of them. BTW, both bats showed 3 bars when fully charged. The LP-E6N was down to 25% by the time I had to give up last night when it got dark out. This R5 seems to be a little power piggy, but in all fairness I did have the EVF set to 120 most of the evening and rear LCD turning on and off constantly while I was playing.
Just tossing as much info out there in case anything is relevant during this discussion. ...Show more →
Heating up with minimal use isn't normal for mirrorless, although it does happen per the design of certain cameras. My Fujifilm X100V warms up the grip a little, but none of the other mirrorless cameras I've had do – EOS R, GFX 50S/R, Leica Q, and Leica SL.
I think the dividing line comes when you have a well-weather-sealed body combined with a processor fast enough to do 4K. The R5 has an additional heat source, which would be fast fps to a CFexpress card.
I shot with my R5 for about five minutes last night and I noticed the grip and bottom of the camera was getting warmer. I did not see a temperature warning.
I made about 50ish frames using electronic shutter and mechanical shutter on high speed mode and AF servo while tracking our 10 week old puppy. I was using the RF 85 f/1.2 and ProGrade Digital 325 CFExpress Cobalt card. The temperature was about 29 degrees celsius.
I mention my experience only to say that the camera does (or at least mine does) warm up even after a brief session. I will hopefully be testing more thoroughly tonight, as well as this weekend (it's a long weekend in Canada), and I will report back with my experience.
Typically I cover my cameras with clear 3M tape as well as cover all the logos with black electrical tape. I do this prevent unintentional bangs from marring up the camera body, as well as to make the camera "look" weathered and less appealing to would-be thieves while travelling (I don't know if this really works as a deterrent, but I haven't been robbed yet! *knock-on-wood).
I'm more apprehensive about putting tape around this camera because of the heat concerns; my worry is that the tape, even though clear, would still trap in more heat and cause over heating faster.
Dely wrote:
Honestly I would return the camera if I was in your situation. This overheating issue with stills is something that has not been mentioned by reviewers. All of this overheating has seem to center around shooting video. You have been the first documented case that I have read about with stills so to be safe I would return it and make sure this is not an issue with your specific camera. If you pick up another one and you are still have overheating issues with stills then we know this is a more prevalent issue.
Also, I am sure all of us are now keeping an eye out to see if anyone else is having an issue with overheating when it comes to stills. I shoot mainly stills so your case has me concerned.
I think the grip is the answer for me and clearly people not shooting under extremes like I was are fine. I will send mine to CPS at some point. The factory could have left out something simple like heat sink compound.
BTW, in the shots I got the eagle was panting so much that moisture was dripping off his beak. That shot is in the R5 pic thread in this forum.
Andrew J wrote:
I will send mine to CPS at some point. The factory could have left out something simple like heat sink compound.
I had the exact same thought last night reading this thread. Conversely, during manufacture, something extraneous could have been accidentally left in the camera. Kind of like a surgeon leaving a sponge in a patient after surgery. Things still generally work, but not optimally... We'll see if others report similar.
Andrew J wrote:
I think the grip is the answer for me and clearly people not shooting under extremes like I was are fine. I will send mine to CPS at some point. The factory could have left out something simple like heat sink compound.
BTW, in the shots I got the eagle was panting so much that moisture was dripping off his beak. That shot is in the R5 pic thread in this forum.
Don't own the R5 myself but I just checked the EXIF of an R5 raw I downloaded online and Canon includes the internal camera temperature in the metadata. In advance of sending it to CPS I would do a controlled experiment where you start the camera cold and leave it on (disabling any auto-power off setting), taking a photo every 10 minutes for say an hour or so. You can then check the temperature in the EXIF of each image and supply that data to Canon, along with the ambient temp of your room so they'll have a point of reference. That should give them all the info they need to determine if your body is operating within expected thermal behavior.
You can examine the full EXIF using exiftool. If you need any help in the process just let me know - or you can send me the images and I can extract the temperature for you (out-of-camera JPGs will be sufficient).
I would try the battery that came with the R5 before considering returning the camera. The battery the OP used could be fine, or may be at the end of its life. If you have the same issue with the new battery then you have an issue. Just my 2 cents.
Dely wrote:
Honestly I would return the camera if I was in your situation. This overheating issue with stills is something that has not been mentioned by reviewers. All of this overheating has seem to center around shooting video. You have been the first documented case that I have read about with stills so to be safe I would return it and make sure this is not an issue with your specific camera. If you pick up another one and you are still have overheating issues with stills then we know this is a more prevalent issue.
Also, I am sure all of us are now keeping an eye out to see if anyone else is having an issue with overheating when it comes to stills. I shoot mainly stills so your case has me concerned.
Andrew J wrote:
I am reporting extreme overheating just shooting stills. I had the camera shut down and the Canon battery that came out was extremely hot. This was a 90d Canon battery so not a high discharge version that ships with the R5. I am going to guess most stills shooters will want 3 spare R5 OEM batteries just to shoot stills for fun. For work I would believe many more.
Hey Andrew, can you confirm or deny something for me....did the camera actually shut down or was it just getting the heat warning?
You will get the heat warning after shooting stills for awhile (supposedly even just leaving the camera on for awhile) but all it means is that you will be locked out of some of the video modes like 8K and 4KHQ.
If it actually shut off and wouldn't let you shoot still then that seems like it could be an issue with your individual camera.
Looks like you went to Conowingo! I hope it's still open in November. I noticed you were using the 600 f4 II. Did you have any trouble tracking before the battery got hot? I'm really hoping for a better outcome for you with the OEM battery (or any other battery).
So far, this is the only report like this, out of many that have already gone out and performed wildlife and weddings with the R5. This tells me that there is something wrong with this one unit, or issues with a bad battery.
To follow up on my question from last evening, I was watching the Gerald Undone 3hr livestream using the R6/R5 that answered a lot of interesting questions/theories about how the temp warnings and video modes perform.
What was of interest is that once he hit the heat limit in 4K60(HQ) you could immediately switch down to 4K30 and shoot forever with the heat warning disappearing. You could also shoot 4K60 (low quality, line skipped) for ever if shooting externally or just streaming as he was doing without recording BUT the heat warning stays on and shows 0:00 for record time. Supposedly this is because if you start recording internal it will shut off at the heat limit in 4K60 (low quality). So that sort of tells me the camera may keep showing the heat warning even though it will never shutdown your lower video mode or stills mode. But it is also odd to me that 4K30 gets rid of the heat warning so not sure why in stills the camera would bother showing the heat warning. Maybe if your video setting was set to 4K60 or 8K (even though you weren't shooting video) it showed the warning thinking that is what you would want to shoot? Just a wild theory?
Hope Andrew can clarify if the camera actually shut down after the heat icon came on in stills mode. I read through his subsequent replies and it sounded more like it was just the icon showing up and then maybe the battery dying (and being really hot)??
My guess is it is just a small sensing device. A thermistor that is wired into the processor.
With code written around it.
Example:
If HeatSink is >= ShutDownStart then start HeatIndicator
That would give a buffer between shutting down after showing the indicator. Not sure what language is used.
The thermistors are tiny and can be attached anywhere in the camera, I assume to the CPU.
And many many lines of code leading up to the shut down.
We used to do this daily, also linking the code to the GUI interface.
arbitrage wrote:
To follow up on my question from last evening, I was watching the Gerald Undone 3hr livestream using the R6/R5 that answered a lot of interesting questions/theories about how the temp warnings and video modes perform.
What was of interest is that once he hit the heat limit in 4K60(HQ) you could immediately switch down to 4K30 and shoot forever with the heat warning disappearing. You could also shoot 4K60 (low quality, line skipped) for ever if shooting externally or just streaming as he was doing without recording BUT the heat warning stays on and shows 0:00 for record time. Supposedly this is because if you start recording internal it will shut off at the heat limit in 4K60 (low quality). So that sort of tells me the camera may keep showing the heat warning even though it will never shutdown your lower video mode or stills mode. But it is also odd to me that 4K30 gets rid of the heat warning so not sure why in stills the camera would bother showing the heat warning. Maybe if your video setting was set to 4K60 or 8K (even though you weren't shooting video) it showed the warning thinking that is what you would want to shoot? Just a wild theory?
Hope Andrew can clarify if the camera actually shut down after the heat icon came on in stills mode. I read through his subsequent replies and it sounded more like it was just the icon showing up and then maybe the battery dying (and being really hot)??...Show more →
It's a reasonable theory - being a hybrid camera the firmware was likely designed to anticipate users switching between stills and video and so wanted to convey when that wouldn't be possible or advisable. It seems clear the majority of heat being generated inside the camera is in the video processing/compression login in DIGIC, which explains why certain modes are ok (like the ALL-I) and others are not.
arbitrage wrote:
To follow up on my question from last evening, I was watching the Gerald Undone 3hr livestream using the R6/R5 that answered a lot of interesting questions/theories about how the temp warnings and video modes perform.
What was of interest is that once he hit the heat limit in 4K60(HQ) you could immediately switch down to 4K30 and shoot forever with the heat warning disappearing. You could also shoot 4K60 (low quality, line skipped) for ever if shooting externally or just streaming as he was doing without recording BUT the heat warning stays on and shows 0:00 for record time. Supposedly this is because if you start recording internal it will shut off at the heat limit in 4K60 (low quality). So that sort of tells me the camera may keep showing the heat warning even though it will never shutdown your lower video mode or stills mode. But it is also odd to me that 4K30 gets rid of the heat warning so not sure why in stills the camera would bother showing the heat warning. Maybe if your video setting was set to 4K60 or 8K (even though you weren't shooting video) it showed the warning thinking that is what you would want to shoot? Just a wild theory?
Hope Andrew can clarify if the camera actually shut down after the heat icon came on in stills mode. I read through his subsequent replies and it sounded more like it was just the icon showing up and then maybe the battery dying (and being really hot)??...Show more →
Heat dissipation is all about temperature difference. The bigger the temperature difference between a warm object and its cooler environment the faster it will transfer heat to the environment. It is probable that at a given (high) operating temperature the camera generates heat at or below the equilibrium rate when lower IQ video modes are used, but not in the higher IQ modes. The equilibrium rate depends on both the camera temperature and the air temperature. If the environment is hot enough I'm sure it would shut down in any mode after some period of time. The camera could also measure the temperature of an external surface like its metal frame and figure out equilibrium, etc., but that's a lot more elaborate than anything I've seen in practice. This stuff is usually based on typical conditions with hard limits taking over when things get too hot.
It's normal practice to have temperature sensors built into the processor and other ICs in the camera, probably including the image sensor. Heat shutoff limits would typically depend on the circuit design limits and on image quality, which deteriorates as temperature increases. The design limits are "hard" limits, meaning that exceeding them will compromise the operating lifetime of the circuits. The IQ limits are "soft". Exceeding them means noisier images.
