p.20 #1 · In Stock: Sigma 85mm f/1.4 DG DN Art ($1,199)
To me Sigma 85/1.4 DG DN stands out from other 85/1.4 lenses due to it's excellent sharpness across the frame and virtuall lack of CA wide open.Yet in my eyes Sony GM 85/1.4 wite open is more painterly - has more pleasing colour rendition and smoother oof blurr.
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p.20 #2 · In Stock: Sigma 85mm f/1.4 DG DN Art ($1,199)
Peire wrote:
To me Sigma 85/1.4 DG DN stands out from other 85/1.4 lenses due to it's excellent sharpness across the frame and virtuall lack of CA wide open.Yet in my eyes Sony GM 85/1.4 wite open is more painterly - has more pleasing colour rendition and smoother oof blurr.
Piere, thanks for the nice samples, as always you provide wonderful shots for us here. I think you hit the nail on the head when comparing the Sigma 85 f/1.4 DN and the Sony 85 f/1.4 GM. There are strengths and weaknesses for both lenses and it depends on what matters to you most what lens will be better for you.
It sure looks like Sigma 85 f/1.4 DN
strengths:
1) Very sharp
2) Low CA
3) Size is small for an 85 f/1.4
4) Fast AF for an 85 f/1.4
5) Seems to have a quite flat field of focus with sharpness extending well beyond the center
weaknesses:
1) good but not exceptional bokeh (higher contrast, some harsher transition zones, cats eyes in the corners) - this is of course somewhat subjective
2) Relatively large native pincushion distortion; this can be corrected in camera or post with some loss of sharpness
3) not great again backlighting (several reports seem to indicate can provoke veiling flare and ghosts somewhat easily
Sony 85 f/1.4 GM
strengths:
1) exceptional bokeh (lower contrast, very few cat's eyes, smooth transitions, but some axial CA) - this is of course somewhat subjective
2) Good to very good performance against backlighting
3) Good sharpness stopped down even just a little, excellent sharpness stopped down
4) Seems to have a quite flat field of focus with sharpness extending well beyond the center
weaknesses:
1) somewhat slow AF
2) not a small lens especially on current Sony mirrorless cameras that are all relatively small
3) only average axial CA correction
I am sure there are other differences and similarities worth noting, but as several others have said it looks like the Sigma 85 f/1.4 is an excellent all around. If get this lens make sure you can live with the bokeh (which is not bad at all for an all around lens, IMO), the native distortion (or it correction), and its weakness against backlighting.
In contrast the Sony 85 f/1.4 GM is as several others have said it is a classic portrait lens and excellent for that purpose. If you get this lens make sure you can live with the somewhat slow AF, its size, and the level of axial CA (which, IMO, is just average and not especially good).
Both are excellent lenses, but of course not without weaknesses. I think what you should probably guide most people's decisions, however, is there intended use of the lenses and their tolerance for the lenses weaknesses.
p.20 #3 · In Stock: Sigma 85mm f/1.4 DG DN Art ($1,199)
Peire wrote:
To me Sigma 85/1.4 DG DN stands out from other 85/1.4 lenses due to it's excellent sharpness across the frame and virtuall lack of CA wide open.Yet in my eyes Sony GM 85/1.4 wite open is more painterly - has more pleasing colour rendition and smoother oof blurr.
Great pictures! One thing that came to my mind is that you might have efcs turned on (the flower shot gives it away to me) and it affects the bokeh in a way...
p.20 #4 · In Stock: Sigma 85mm f/1.4 DG DN Art ($1,199)
Steve Spencer wrote:
Piere, thanks for the nice samples, as always you provide wonderful shots for us here. I think you hit the nail on the head when comparing the Sigma 85 f/1.4 DN and the Sony 85 f/1.4 GM. There are strengths and weaknesses for both lenses and it depends on what matters to you most what lens will be better for you.
It sure looks like Sigma 85 f/1.4 DN
strengths:
1) Very sharp
2) Low CA
3) Size is small for an 85 f/1.4
4) Fast AF for an 85 f/1.4
5) Seems to have a quite flat field of focus with sharpness extending well beyond the center
weaknesses:
1) good but not exceptional bokeh (higher contrast, some harsher transition zones, cats eyes in the corners) - this is of course somewhat subjective
2) Relatively large native pincushion distortion; this can be corrected in camera or post with some loss of sharpness
3) not great again backlighting (several reports seem to indicate can provoke veiling flare and ghosts somewhat easily
Sony 85 f/1.4 GM
strengths:
1) exceptional bokeh (lower contrast, very few cat's eyes, smooth transitions, but some axial CA) - this is of course somewhat subjective
2) Good to very good performance against backlighting
3) Good sharpness stopped down even just a little, excellent sharpness stopped down
4) Seems to have a quite flat field of focus with sharpness extending well beyond the center
weaknesses:
1) somewhat slow AF
2) not a small lens especially on current Sony mirrorless cameras that are all relatively small
3) only average axial CA correction
I am sure there are other differences and similarities worth noting, but as several others have said it looks like the Sigma 85 f/1.4 is an excellent all around. If get this lens make sure you can live with the bokeh (which is not bad at all for an all around lens, IMO), the native distortion (or it correction), and its weakness against backlighting.
In contrast the Sony 85 f/1.4 GM is as several others have said it is a classic portrait lens and excellent for that purpose. If you get this lens make sure you can live with the somewhat slow AF, its size, and the level of axial CA (which, IMO, is just average and not especially good).
Both are excellent lenses, but of course not without weaknesses. I think what you should probably guide most people's decisions, however, is there intended use of the lenses and their tolerance for the lenses weaknesses. ...Show more →
I'm not sure about flare resistance... it seems to be worse than GM and better than Samyang... not sure if that's still good or bad already .
As for bokeh, I've been trying to provoke some bad examples but because it's nearly CA-free it has this clean look I really like but I do get the impression that SY is a bit smoother in transitions... need to compare these two in that regard finally.
p.20 #5 · In Stock: Sigma 85mm f/1.4 DG DN Art ($1,199)
Peire wrote:
To me Sigma 85/1.4 DG DN stands out from other 85/1.4 lenses due to it's excellent sharpness across the frame and virtuall lack of CA wide open.Yet in my eyes Sony GM 85/1.4 wite open is more painterly - has more pleasing colour rendition and smoother oof blurr.
I haven't tested the new Sigma but the old Sigma from my own tests as per the following video, had bokeh that traded blows with the GM as they both had some areas that were smoother than the other with no clear winner. That is the reason I sold my GM after doing that test (for which I got the Sigma used from a local thinking I was going to resell it after the test).
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Also, do you have EFCS on? Because the bokeh is looking harsher (with some artifacts) than I would expect.
p.20 #6 · In Stock: Sigma 85mm f/1.4 DG DN Art ($1,199)
Peire wrote:
To me Sigma 85/1.4 DG DN stands out from other 85/1.4 lenses due to it's excellent sharpness across the frame and virtuall lack of CA wide open.Yet in my eyes Sony GM 85/1.4 wite open is more painterly - has more pleasing colour rendition and smoother oof blurr.
If you zoom in on the bushes/grass on the sides of the tree / on the edges of the picture you can see some "harshness" ... but I really don't know how that would look like on GM on SY...
p.20 #11 · In Stock: Sigma 85mm f/1.4 DG DN Art ($1,199)
These 4 Full Frame A7R4 SOOC (unprocessed) jpg's I shot yesterday with "EFCS turned off" @ f/1.4
I never originally intended to upload these here as they were only ever intended originally for my eyes only (They are just test shots not works of art).
However on reflection they maybe of help to others, with regards to seeing the rendering diferences between these two lenses (85mm DN DG and 85mm GM).
Download and overlay flicking back and forth between them helps you visualise the differences in rendering better (Lens corrections were turned on because of the distortion of the Sigma DN).
I have nothing really more to add than what others have already observed....Although the 85mm Sigma DN DG is very slightly more telephoto than the Sony GM (They were shot from the exactly the same position on a tripod).
Neither lens is perfect, it all depends upon what you want out your fast 85mm lens.
Cheers Barry
p.20 #13 · In Stock: Sigma 85mm f/1.4 DG DN Art ($1,199)
leicamera wrote:
These 4 Full Frame A7R4 SOOC (unprocessed) jpg's I shot yesterday with "EFCS turned off" @ f/1.4
I never originally intended to upload these here as they were only ever intended originally for my eyes only (They are just test shots not works of art).
However on reflection they maybe of help to others, with regards to seeing the rendering diferences between these two lenses (85mm DN DG and 85mm GM).
Download and overlay flicking back and forth between them helps you visualise the differences in rendering better (Lens corrections were turned on because of the distortion of the Sigma DN).
I have nothing really more to add than what others have already observed....Although the 85mm Sigma DN DG is very slightly more telephoto than the Sony GM (They were shot from the exactly the same position on a tripod).
Neither lens is perfect, it all depends upon what you want out your fast 85mm lens.
Cheers Barry
This is interesting. Look at the railing in the first comparison. The Sigma appears to have a cleaner transition zone before the plane of focus. After the plane of focus, the GM is smoother.
Less surprisingly, the GM's bokeh is gentler, though these aren't particularly demanding scenes. I also see the new 85 DN DG has Sigma's trademark warm rendering, which I do not like at all. (I say that as someone who owns and loves two other Sigma Art lenses.)
p.20 #14 · In Stock: Sigma 85mm f/1.4 DG DN Art ($1,199)
From diglloyd.com:
Sigma FE 85mm f/1.4 DG DN Art: Hideous Pincushion Distortion and Its Effects on Micro Contrast
"Pincushion distortion is far more unnatural looking than barrel distortion"
"The de-facto requirement to correct this level of distortion guarantees sub-optimal micro contrast and sharpness in a substantial portion of the central areas of the frame. That makes the sharpness and Sigma FE 85/1.4 MTF chart highly misleading."
"As a measure of detail, JPEG output file size is a solid indicator: the uncorrected image compresses at very high quality to 60.2MB versus 52.3MB for the corrected image. In other words, JPEG is saying that there is more than a 10% loss in pixel detail."
p.20 #15 · In Stock: Sigma 85mm f/1.4 DG DN Art ($1,199)
Fred Miranda wrote:
From diglloyd.com:
Sigma FE 85mm f/1.4 DG DN Art: Hideous Pincushion Distortion and Its Effects on Micro Contrast
"Pincushion distortion is far more unnatural looking than barrel distortion"
"The de-facto requirement to correct this level of distortion guarantees sub-optimal micro contrast and sharpness in a substantial portion of the central areas of the frame. That makes the sharpness and Sigma FE 85/1.4 MTF chart highly misleading."
"As a measure of detail, JPEG output file size is a solid indicator: the uncorrected image compresses at very high quality to 60.2MB versus 52.3MB for the corrected image. In other words, JPEG is saying that there is more than a 10% loss in pixel detail."
That's interesting... unfortunately behind a paywall, does he give a concrete example of the center resolution loss?
Looking at jpeg size is definitely an indication, but can be misleading if you don't take into account what kind of image is lost by applying correction (uniform areas compress better -> smaller jpeg).
I'll have to check this center resolution loss myself, though I'm only on 24 mpix so it might not be visible...
p.20 #16 · In Stock: Sigma 85mm f/1.4 DG DN Art ($1,199)
j4nu wrote:
That's interesting... unfortunately behind a paywall, does he give a concrete example of the center resolution loss?
Looking at jpeg size is definitely an indication, but can be misleading if you don't take into account what kind of image is lost by applying correction (uniform areas compress better -> smaller jpeg).
I'll have to check this center resolution loss myself, though I'm only on 24 mpix so it might not be visible...
At 24MP should not be noticeable but perhaps at 60MP it may be. (1:1 Mag.)
However, the lens is so sharp, that any small detail loss due to pincushion correction should not be apparent in real images.
p.20 #17 · In Stock: Sigma 85mm f/1.4 DG DN Art ($1,199)
j4nu wrote:
That's interesting... unfortunately behind a paywall, does he give a concrete example of the center resolution loss?
Looking at jpeg size is definitely an indication, but can be misleading if you don't take into account what kind of image is lost by applying correction (uniform areas compress better -> smaller jpeg).
I'll have to check this center resolution loss myself, though I'm only on 24 mpix so it might not be visible...
I wouldn't be so worried since that test is comparing the lens with, well, itself.... A better way would be to compare the corrected Sigma with an image of the same subject taken with a different, reference lens, of known MTF.
The other question is how does MTF translate into jpeg size. Is it a linear law, as Lloyd suggests?
p.20 #18 · In Stock: Sigma 85mm f/1.4 DG DN Art ($1,199)
vdo1 wrote:
I wouldn't be so worried since that test is comparing the lens with, well, itself.... A better way would be to compare the corrected Sigma with an image of the same subject taken with a different, reference lens, of known MTF.
The other question is how does MTF translate into jpeg size. Is it a linear law, as Lloyd suggests?
Yes, comparison with other 85mm after correction is interesting as well... but for now I'd want to see how big/small is the penalty on the final picture IQ of the rather big distortion on the new Sigma (is it a reasonable tradeoff for its size / weight savings?).
As for MTF and jpeg size correlation, I wouldn't really put too much thought in it, as there are too many variables in that. In my case, the uncorrected jpeg is 3392 kB and corrected is 3520 kB - go figure .
p.20 #19 · In Stock: Sigma 85mm f/1.4 DG DN Art ($1,199)
vdo1 wrote:
I wouldn't be so worried since that test is comparing the lens with, well, itself.... A better way would be to compare the corrected Sigma with an image of the same subject taken with a different, reference lens, of known MTF.
The other question is how does MTF translate into jpeg size. Is it a linear law, as Lloyd suggests?
I used the Batis 85 profile + additional manual correction and still, at 61MP, the Sigma looks clearly sharper than the GM. I don't see anything to worry about so far. I really like this lens.
p.20 #20 · In Stock: Sigma 85mm f/1.4 DG DN Art ($1,199)
Also don't forget that Lloyd has a history of creating drama out of nothing, the most famous case I remember was about the A7R III AF being broken. It turned out later that he didn't properly read / understand the instructions:
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