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Archive 2020 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6

  
 
josh paris
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p.78 #1 · p.78 #1 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6


GabrielPhoto wrote:
Did you compare high iso RAW files? Canon does a LOT of cleaning (which can also add visible artifacts) on their JPGs. I was thinking how clean the ISO was looking comparing JPGs to my A7R IV until I compared RAW vs RAW.


Yes it was raw file, however I didn't compare directly same shot to A7r3...but I've seen enough sony high iso to know. Far
from scientific I know, but I saw enough to say the r6 is gonna be sweet for low light....now I just need another buddy to pick up the a7s3



Sep 12, 2020 at 11:15 AM
GabrielPhoto
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p.78 #2 · p.78 #2 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6


josh paris wrote:
Yes it was raw file, however I didn't compare directly same shot to A7r3...but I've seen enough sony high iso to know. Far
from scientific I know, but I saw enough to say the r6 is gonna be sweet for low light....now I just need another buddy to pick up the a7s3


Oh the one I actually compared was the R5 vs the A7R IV raw and jpgs. Missed that you were referring to the R6.



Sep 12, 2020 at 11:21 AM
jtra
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p.78 #3 · p.78 #3 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6


Hilarious story of R6 EYE AF focusing on nude male model private parts

https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/is14tg/hilarious_canon_r6_eye_af_blooper_story_slightly/



Sep 13, 2020 at 12:19 PM
vdo1
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p.78 #4 · p.78 #4 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6


With the R5 already being old news, maybe we could start a new thread, "Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5s"?

https://petapixel.com/2020/09/08/canon-is-already-testing-an-eos-r5s-with-90mp-sensor-report/




Sep 14, 2020 at 06:33 PM
ShootPDX
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p.78 #5 · p.78 #5 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6


I should have my Canon R5 on Thursday (and hopefully the CFe card & reader on the same day -- *gulp*).

I'll be more than happy to report my thoughts after I've had a chance to use the RF for a couple of weeks. I think the biggest challenge will be customization in hopes of making it behave like my a9ii, or at least as close to it as possible.

I welcome any pointers from folks who own both!



Sep 14, 2020 at 07:40 PM
RoamingScott
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p.78 #6 · p.78 #6 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6


https://petapixel.com/2020/10/12/this-simple-canon-eos-r5-thermal-mod-enables-unlimited-8k-recording/

Thermal paste...any PC builder will tell you how important it is. Recall/class action time!



Oct 13, 2020 at 10:28 AM
patotts
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p.78 #7 · p.78 #7 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6


I have handled a Canon R5 by now, but only for 15 min, and tried to reed a bunch of reviews, etc.

It seems clear that Canon has delivered a modern and competitive camera, but when I see glowing reviews/feedback on the R5 it appears like most of the time it comes from Canon users that remained loyal to the brand and not having tried any other cameras. If you have been using e.g. a Canon 5D Mk III or IV for the last few years and you try a pro-grade mirrorless like the R5 for the first time, than yes, you have every right to be blown away, but if you are currently a A7R3/4 or A9x user, they you are going "yepp, welcome to the club, we've had that for years"...

The R5 makes the Canon mirrorless platform modern, relevant and competitive, but given the cripple-hammer (on 8K, etc) it hasn't really given anyone an overwhelming reason to switch from e.g. Sony to Canon. Now if you prefer Canon's UI, handling, native lens-line up, etc that might be good enough reason for you personally. The R5 might be slightly better than some Sonys in terms of IBIS, AF speed and accuracy in some aspects, but that is the way it should be - the latest release of a camera improves on previous generation - soon enough there will be Sony A74 or A7R5 that improves on the R5 (perhaps time to skip naming the next gen A7R4 R5 as it will be a bit confusing?)

We are all winners here - the industry is delivering better and better cameras, and at this point the reason to upgrade cameras with every release has largely gone away.



Oct 16, 2020 at 11:47 AM
raminolta
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p.78 #8 · p.78 #8 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6


A comparison between A7r iv and R5 regarding still portraits:



The clear winner of this comparison is the new Sigma 85mm DG DN Art lens!



Oct 16, 2020 at 06:41 PM
Charlie52
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p.78 #9 · p.78 #9 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6


Jonathan F wrote:
Looks good. Plus Canon has been known to do deep discounts especially around the holidays. I can imagine these bodies to have amazing deals come end of year! It's a good time to be a photographer with so much selection!

Maybe next year 2022. Since August orders haven't shipped yet I doubt they'd have much incentive to discount when they can't keep up with current orders.



Oct 17, 2020 at 05:53 PM
ajamils
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p.78 #10 · p.78 #10 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6


ShootPDX wrote:
I should have my Canon R5 on Thursday (and hopefully the CFe card & reader on the same day -- *gulp*).

I'll be more than happy to report my thoughts after I've had a chance to use the RF for a couple of weeks. I think the biggest challenge will be customization in hopes of making it behave like my a9ii, or at least as close to it as possible.

I welcome any pointers from folks who own both!


So what are your thoughts? I am very tempted to try out R5 but have a complete Sony setup so still debating if it's worth the change.



Oct 17, 2020 at 09:32 PM
arbitrage
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p.78 #11 · p.78 #11 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6


I've now had my own R5 for three full weekends of shooting. The only lens I own for the R5 is the RF 100-500. But I did spend another two days shooting the adapted 400DOII that I borrowed from a friend (Pius).

I don't think much has changed from my original assessment posted many pages back. I think I've just been able to solidify the thoughts I had after my initial couple test runs with Pius' R5.

I think for sure the A9II (A9) still has the edge for quickly acquiring and keeping focus throughout a lengthy burst of a smaller, faster BIF. Some bursts the R5 will match the A9 in consistency. But other times it will fall behind. When a very small, fast bird (like the past two days shooting some Brewer's Blackbirds coming straight at me) comes out of nowhere with little warning, the A9II has a better chance (in Zone or Wide) to quickly "see" the subject, get a lock, dance the dots, and get you a nice string of focused shots. The R5 is less successful for that type of thing. But, I am still playing around with the best AF mode for the R5. Also playing around with the AF settings for the R5. I think I will be able to improve my success with the R5 after a bit more experience with it but it won't have the same ease as picking up an A9 for the first time, switching to Wide AF and just firing away without much effort.

Now for the flip side....for shooting perched, floating, swimming and foraging birds the R5 has the advantage because of the Animal Eye Detect (AED). When the camera has the time to see a stable bird in the AF system (unlike the fast, speeding bullets discussed above) the AED is remarkable. It has got me shots I would have missed with the A9. For example, often when out birding or even shooting my setups in the backyard, birds will land for only a split second or two before they fly to the next perch or turn away etc. With the R5 I can basically hold down the AED button as I raise the camera to my eye and before my eye even registers what I'm seeing through the EVF the AED tiny AF square is locked onto the eye (or head if the head is turned away). This has allowed me to catch fleeting moments that I would miss some of the time with the A9. With the A9 I'd usually use Zone AF in these situations and it is also pretty quick. With a totally clear foreground and background the differences are probably minimal. But in a lot of scenarios, having that AED ignore everything other than the eye can make the difference. I've also found for foraging shorebirds and waders that the AED is just easier to ignore having to place the focus area as I do with Zone or ExpandFlexSpot on the A9 and just let the AED do its thing while I put all my effort into composing the scene. For example, bird foraging pointed to the right, usually I'll be using Zone in one position and as bird turns and goes the other way I switch Zone to another position...with AED, the system does everything, I'm never touching any joystick. It is pretty crazy to watch the AED have the eye of a foraging yellowlegs, keep the tiny square on the eye as it plunges its head into the water, switch to a larger head box once the eye is below water level and then even just half the eye reemerges and it is back to the tiny AED overlay over the eye...remarkable AI system behind all of this. Can't wait for Sony to update their system to do this also....they've had such a head start developing this type of system that it must be coming soon now that the competition will be pushing them to innovate.

Gripes about the R5 compared to my A9:
* Back buttons are too small and too similar to each other to easily know if I'm on my intended button
* Switching into APS-C requires button push and then click of a wheel instead of straight toggle
* Switching between MS and ES can't be assigned to a custom button. Requires assigning one or the other to a C mode and toggling back and forth. Otherwise a My Menu dive is needed.
* Shooting in ES is fixed at 20FPS...that is too much most of the time...too much culling
* The EVF experience in ES is not quite as smooth and flawless as the A9. The A9 is a little easier to pan/track/shoot a fast BIF. But Canon did do a remarkable job with the EVF Experience in ES on the R5 considering they aren't using the stacked sensor. Better than any other MILC I've tried, better than the RIV, Nikon Zs etc.
* LCD flips to the side, vs just hinging. I find it easier to do my ground level shooting with an LCD flipping straight up in line with the lens vs having the LCD off to the left.

Pros of the R5 over the A9:
* Grip material is better (Sony feels like hard plastic, Canon is better)
* Operational speed of things like bringing up overlays, waking the LCD or EVF, chimping 1:1 images while card writing, switching settings while card writing are all way better on the R5 with no noticeable lag. A big one for me is when on the A9 I hit my alternative back button to change to a different AF mode and the thing literally takes 1/2 second to show the new AF overlay. R5 instant...that may sound minor and petty but it makes a big difference to me.
* I can permanently set my upper rear scroll wheel to ISO. With my A9 have to use the My Dial setting and every time I turn on the camera I have to use a custom button to toggle into that My Dial 1 setting...that is just annoying to me because there is no reason it needs to be like that.
* Much better EVF...even my A7RIV which has the same dot count is not as nice of an image as the R5's EVF. Compared to the A9 it is just no contest. The A9 sends a fairly poor feed when shooting at 20FPS and high refresh. The R5 seems to keep the same high quality feed no matter what.

I think I've mentioned this previously in this thread but the main reason I'm keeping my R5 is that it comes so close to the A9 but with 45MPs. If only 24MPs, I wouldn't keep it.

I think Sony will cross a lot of my issues off the list by using the new BIONZ-XR in the next round of 7R and 9 cameras. I'm not sure if they will be able to make that new 9million dot EVF work at high FPS/ES/no blackout but if they can it sounds like that EVF is the one to rule them all. I believe the BIONZ-XR will eliminate the operational lag and handicaps while card writing. The new dual CFeA/SDUHSII slots will give the best of all worlds for storage (as long as the cost of CFeA comes down to CFeB pricing). I also thing Sony will have a Bird Eye AF update coming soon. Fingers crossed it can come to the A9II via FW but regardless it will surely come to the A9III.

All for now.



Oct 18, 2020 at 06:24 AM
Jemini
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p.78 #12 · p.78 #12 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6


arbitrage wrote:
I've now had my own R5 for three full weekends of shooting. The only lens I own for the R5 is the RF 100-500. But I did spend another two days shooting the adapted 400DOII that I borrowed from a friend (Pius).

I don't think much has changed from my original assessment posted many pages back. I think I've just been able to solidify the thoughts I had after my initial couple test runs with Pius' R5.

I think for sure the A9II (A9) still has the edge for quickly acquiring and keeping focus throughout a lengthy burst of a smaller, faster
...Show more

Thank you for the detailed comparison Geoff. You summarized it pretty well. After reading all comments I came to similar conclusion. I really hope Sony will bring animal/bird eye focus soon. Still perched bird is a pain with Sony for me. I also wish they will make A9III a high MP camera.

What do you think about 100-500 compared to 200-600? (excluding FL range)?



Oct 18, 2020 at 08:14 AM
arbitrage
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p.78 #13 · p.78 #13 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6


Jemini wrote:
Thank you for the detailed comparison Geoff. You summarized it pretty well. After reading all comments I came to similar conclusion. I really hope Sony will bring animal/bird eye focus soon. Still perched bird is a pain with Sony for me. I also wish they will make A9III a high MP camera.

What do you think about 100-500 compared to 200-600? (excluding FL range)?


I like the non-extending design and short zoom throw of the 200-600.
I like the MFD and MM of the 100-500
I like the extra 100mm and 1/3 stop of the 200-600
I find the IQ to be great with both
I don't like that with the 1.4TC the 100-500 can't be fully retracted.
I like the lower weight of the 100-500

The 100-500 is a closer competitor and type of lens compared to the 100-400GM. And when compared to the 100-400GM, the 100-500 has everything the 100-400 has but with a bonus 100mm. Weight is the same, length is almost the same. The aperture at 400mm is essentially the same (100-500 reports 5.6 if used in 1/2 stops and f/6.3 at 1/3 stops so is probably somewhere in between but one would really need to compare t-stop to see which lens is actually brighter at 400mm) The only disadvantage of the 100-500 is again the retracting with TC.

If someone said here is a Sony 100-500GM designed like the RF and here is an RF 200-600 designed exactly like the 200-600G then I'd go for the 200-600 for either system. But for now I'm happy with the 100-500, just fighting the 7.1 some of the time...even though it is only 1/3 stop slower it is just that little bit more in the darker fall weather of the PNW and starts to push my ISO up too high.



Oct 18, 2020 at 09:02 AM
esanchez
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p.78 #14 · p.78 #14 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6


I'm the same way. I was Canon shooter for many years before coming over to Sony. though I would like to go back to Canon there isn't much third party support for the RF system yet. Dumping Sony and going to Canon would cost me a fortune. So I'll stick with Sony until the market is up to par with third party RF glass. Nothing Sony can't do that the Canon can for what I shoot. I do no video only stills.


Jman13 wrote:
The R5 sounds like an absolutely fantastic camera. Really there's nothing to complain about, and it seems that Canon has caught up to (and perhaps even surpassed) Sony with regards to AF (at least on the non-A9 bodies), which if that bears out is rather remarkable.

The R6 is well specced, but the sensor is a bit disappointing, and I would have liked to see them stick closer to a $1999 price point for it.

Overall, I've been very impressed with the Canon RF system so far. The original R had some really nice things and some very poorly thought
...Show more




Oct 18, 2020 at 03:29 PM
Colin F
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p.78 #15 · p.78 #15 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6


esanchez wrote:
I'm the same way. I was Canon shooter for many years before coming over to Sony. though I would like to go back to Canon there isn't much third party support for the RF system yet. Dumping Sony and going to Canon would cost me a fortune. So I'll stick with Sony until the market is up to par with third party RF glass. Nothing Sony can't do that the Canon can for what I shoot. I do no video only stills.


And don't forget, Sony has some new bodies coming up! I cannot wait to hear what the a9III will contain.




Oct 18, 2020 at 03:51 PM
Jemini
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p.78 #16 · p.78 #16 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6


arbitrage wrote:
I like the non-extending design and short zoom throw of the 200-600.
I like the MFD and MM of the 100-500
I like the extra 100mm and 1/3 stop of the 200-600
I find the IQ to be great with both
I don't like that with the 1.4TC the 100-500 can't be fully retracted.
I like the lower weight of the 100-500

The 100-500 is a closer competitor and type of lens compared to the 100-400GM. And when compared to the 100-400GM, the 100-500 has everything the 100-400 has but with a bonus 100mm. Weight is the same, length is almost the same. The aperture at
...Show more

Thank you again Geoff. I like what you said here
"And when compared to the 100-400GM, the 100-500 has everything the 100-400 has but with a bonus 100mm."

Since R5 has 45mp sensor I can even get more 'digital FL' with the combo. It should be great to be a carry around WL setup especially for family outings (lighter, smaller than 200-600). But I want to see what Sony is going to do with their next gen.




Oct 19, 2020 at 06:15 AM
Holger
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p.78 #17 · p.78 #17 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6


Jemini wrote:
Thank you again Geoff. I like what you said here
"And when compared to the 100-400GM, the 100-500 has everything the 100-400 has but with a bonus 100mm."

Since R5 has 45mp sensor I can even get more 'digital FL' with the combo. It should be great to be a carry around WL setup especially for family outings (lighter, smaller than 200-600). But I want to see what Sony is going to do with their next gen.



You get a bit more "digital FL" compared to A9 with 200-600 (around 1.1x), but you need to crop, loosing light gathering area; not nice when iso is high already since aperture is at f7.1 at 500mm already (vs. f6.3 at 600mm for the Sony; + Sony is around "half" the price of the 100-500 ;-)).
Decisions, decisions.

Edited on Oct 19, 2020 at 09:51 AM · View previous versions



Oct 19, 2020 at 09:25 AM
naturephoto1
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p.78 #18 · p.78 #18 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6


Holger wrote:
You get a bit more "digital FL" compared to A9 with 200-600 (around 1.1x), but you need to crop, loosing light gathering area; not nice when iso is high already since aperture is at f7.1 at 500mm already (vs. f6.3 at 600mm for the Sony; + Sony is around half the price of the 100-500).
Decisions, decisions.


Here in the US, B&H and Adorama list the price of the new Canon 100-500mm as $700 more than the Sony 200-600mm G ($1998 for the Sony and $2699 for the Canon).

Rich



Oct 19, 2020 at 09:32 AM
Holger
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p.78 #19 · p.78 #19 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6


naturephoto1 wrote:
Here in the US, B&H and Adorama list the price of the new Canon 100-500mm as $700 more than the Sony 200-600mm G ($1998 for the Sony and $2699 for the Canon).

Rich


In Germany the Canon is listed around 3020 Euros. the Sony around 1700 Euros (depending on dealer 1799), currently you additionally get 100 Euro direct lens-cashback.



Oct 19, 2020 at 09:44 AM
arbitrage
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p.78 #20 · p.78 #20 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6


Holger wrote:
In Germany the Canon is listed around 3020 Euros. the Sony around 1700 Euros (depending on dealer 1799), currently you additionally get 100 Euro direct lens-cashback.


In Canada it is a pretty big difference also with Canon at $3700 and Sony at $2600. Of note Sony 100-400GM is $3400.

The 200-600 has been the bargin even compared to the Sony 100-400 which is really the closer competitor to the 100-500. However, I think the 200-600 has every bit as good of IQ as the 100-400 and 100-500 so the Sony 100-400 also seems like a poor value these days.



Oct 19, 2020 at 10:08 AM
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