Archive 2020 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
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p.4 #1 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
NJPhotographer wrote:
Electronic shutter doesn't work like that with every camera that's ever been made. With most cameras, ES works poorly for fast action, even at a high shutter speed. The exception so far has been the A9/A9II. Martin's video suggests that the R5 may have a similar capability. But of course the subject is distant so it's not a definitive test.
agree with that, my point was, when you said "details perfectly frozen" it had little to do with the rolling shutter problems being discussed, and a lot to do with fast shutter speeds, because fast shutter speeds are what freezes motion.
what you should have said was something like: "the bike tires are perfectly round", which would have indicated a lack of rolling shutter issues, aka, fast sensor readout:
p.4 #2 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
The bike tires look round in the cropped part of the frame here:
?t=600
Again, it's not definitive as the subject is so distant. But it looks promising.
p.4 #3 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
I think they look good, based on the little I’ve seen. I used to shoot Canon but there’s no way I’m tossing my investment in Sony equipment for what they seem to be offering.
p.4 #4 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
I may ditch Sony (and my larger Olympus kit) and move back to Canon. However, I first have to see how well it works with the one Canon lens I still own, the 500mm f/4 IS II. I'm also eager to see more about readout speeds compared to the A9.
If Sony had improved its ergonomics to my liking and fixed the issues with the A7R IV and 200-600mm combo, I'd stick with Sony and not give Canon another look.
p.4 #5 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
indusphoto wrote:
Multiple people have commented on this. We (either you or I) are confusing read speed (which is sheer data transfer rate) vs scan speed (scan from top to bottom). A9 still has a faster scan, but Canon is reading 45MP x 20 in electronic shutter and moving it into buffer (with upto 180 Raw). I understand that scan speed is slower, but as 1Dx III shows, it is still considerably faster than A7 and Nikon Z. It will work well for action where subject is not crossing the frame horizontally. For example a runner coming towards the camera, or birds in flight where camera is also usually panning with the subject.
The real benefit, however, is in the video specs which are through the roof. 8K/30 and 4K/120 for a full frame in Raw or 10-bit ! Sony is still struggling with 4k/30 being limited to 8-bit. A7S III might change that (we will know soon), but it will be a low MP camera. ...Show more →
When I say read speed I mean the scan speed...ie how fast it can scan/read down the sensor. I'm not talking about how many pixels/second it can dump into the buffer. Yes the data throughput speed at 45MP at 20FPS is exceptional...but useless for fast wing beats if the scan speed isn't up to A9 levels. Even at A9 levels it can sometimes still mess with hummingbird wings.
Jul 09, 2020 at 05:05 PM
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p.4 #6 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
NJPhotographer wrote:
The bike tires look round in the cropped part of the frame here:
?t=600
Again, it's not definitive as the subject is so distant. But it looks promising.
that shot of the rear tire on the bicycle does look promising.
we haven't seen much to compare it to, because most sensors are 1/20th at the quickest, if this r5 is at 1/60th like the 1dxmk3, it could have ramifications for not just the electronic shutter, but perhaps evf blackout as well.
p.4 #7 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
I'm really interested to see how Sony steps up. I'm really envious of that IBIS if it's as good as they're claiming. That I think is the biggest improvement I would like to see.
p.4 #8 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
I bought the Eos R at launch and used it for about 10 months next to my Sony kit. Mostly out of curiosity. In the end I sold the R because it really wasn't up to the level of Sony.
However, the R5 and R6 seem to have all that was lacking for me when using the R.
I might consider a full switch to Canon now. Mostly because of how their files look (the colors for me are a nicer, more consistent starting point) and the streak of bad luck I'm having with Sony. All GM lenses that I've bought the last 2 years had to be returned because of very obvious defects. I'm getting sick and tired of that. When you ask Sony support any questions you hardly get any decent reply too.
First I want to edit some R5 RAW files though, once that's possible.
A question: does anyone know if you can manually set a focal length for the IBIS on the R5 and R6? That's a nice feature on Sony for adapted lenses.
p.4 #9 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Sony needs better ibis for their video especially. Still shooting IBIS leaves very little to be desired. Still waiting for my Riii and a9 mashup to properly move my 200-600 and provide the cropping I’m after. Video features capped at 4K 60p 10 bit 4:2:2 should satisfy everyone.
Hoping the R5 pushes Sony towards segmenting their features less aggressively in their camera bodies going forward.
Duowing wrote:
I'm really interested to see how Sony steps up. I'm really envious of that IBIS if it's as good as they're claiming. That I think is the biggest improvement I would like to see.
p.4 #10 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Has any non-Sony camera manufacturer solved the EVF blackout problem yet for mirrorless outside of the Sony A9? Don't think 20 FPS is all that useful without that problem solved first for action photography and Canon did not mention that as a selling point for the R5. It doesn't seem like Canon solved that yet on the R5 so it just seems like a marginally better Sony A7R III or Nikon Z7.
I can't imagine dynamic range would be much better based on Canon's past track record. I suppose they're pushing 8K capture + frame grabs as an alternative but probably not as good as having raw images. Bird eye AF is nice and I'm sure Sony will update the A7R IV/A9 II to be able to do that - this sounds very do-able as a firmware update.
Sounds like a great release for Canon loyalists but can't see any real reason to switch from Sony to Canon. Even if some Sony native lenses have quality issues, lots of great lenses available from Zeiss, Tamron, Voigtlander, and Sigma that covers almost all use cases except for long telephoto macro and tilt-shift.
p.4 #11 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Looks like an awesome camera, but I just got the A9II, so I'll have to wait before considering switching . For me, the nice thing about Canon is all the used professional L glass that can be had for cheap. I want to get a 600 F/4 at some point, and its simply not an option on Sony with the current pricing.
p.4 #12 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Fred Miranda wrote:
Yes but the R5 has a 45MP sensor, so 20fps is actually impressive (compared to 10fps from A7RIII with similar sensor res.)
The A9/A9II bodies still have the advantage on sensor read speed since they have BSI + stacked electronics technology but the Canon has a higher resolution sensor while offering the same number of FPS.
Will be interesting to see how gimped the electronic shutter in the R5 is in terms of DR/noise; the readoutspeed is supposedly in 1/50 to 1/60 range. There seems to be pretty significant drop in the DR with electronic shutter on the 1DXIII according to photonstophotos. I think anyone hoping to get 20 fps 45 mpix at full 14 bit ADC from R5 is dreaming.
edit: embeddinglink to photonstophotos with "(ES)" in the URL seems to be broken, but adding the 1DXIII and 1DXIII(ES) the does the trick
p.4 #13 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
tzhang4284 wrote:
Has any non-Sony camera manufacturer solved the EVF blackout problem yet for mirrorless outside of the Sony A9? Don't think 20 FPS is all that useful without that problem solved first for action photography and Canon did not mention that as a selling point for the R5. It doesn't seem like Canon solved that yet on the R5 so it just seems like a marginally better Sony A7R III or Nikon Z7.
From purely a fab standpoint, Samsung is a potential option as they already have the stacked architecture and can easily produce large chips as they did with the NX1 which was at 65nm in 2015 when everyone else was stuck at 180nm. I still find it amazing that they could drive that chip to do 6k @ 240fps in 2015.
p.4 #14 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
I'm too invested in a Sony ecosystem to even consider a switch, but even if Sony came up with a camera that has same specs I'm not so sure I would want to upgrade. I think that we are getting to a point of diminishing return with new features on all cameras and lenses for all brands. 8K video, 8 stops IBIS, birds eye focus. Does anybody really need any of these besides bragging rights? Do I really need to replace my Sony 12-24 f4 with 12-24 f2.8 GM?
p.4 #15 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Duowing wrote:
I'm really interested to see how Sony steps up. I'm really envious of that IBIS if it's as good as they're claiming. That I think is the biggest improvement I would like to see.
Yes, the image stabilization that Canon is claiming (or at least some users of the R5 are claiming) is a very appealing feature. If Canon really has 8 stops combined for lens IS and body IS, that would be quite something and I would really want Sony to answer that for me to be satisfied with them.
p.4 #16 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
samosh wrote:
I'm too invested in a Sony ecosystem to even consider a switch, but even if Sony came up with a camera that has same specs I'm not so sure I would want to upgrade. I think that we are getting to a point of diminishing return with new features on all cameras and lenses for all brands. 8K video, 8 stops IBIS, birds eye focus. Does anybody really need any of these besides bragging rights? Do I really need to replace my Sony 12-24 f4 with 12-24 f2.8 GM?
I totally agree with this sentiment that maybe the R5 pulls ahead in the camera olympics, for a short time. But does it really make a meaningful difference in your photography and the photos you produce? certainly not mine. For professionals who have been Canon users the R5 now probably gives them a real reason to move to mirroless. The R6 aimed at enthusiast such as myself and a very good portion of the FMers, doesn't give me what I have in the RIII let alone the RIV. So it may be attractive to Canon shooters but I would be surprised to see many Sony users move to this platform.
p.4 #17 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
chiron wrote:
Yes, the image stabilization that Canon is claiming (or at least some users of the R5 are claiming) is a very appealing feature. If Canon really has 8 stops combined for lens IS and body IS, that would be quite something and I would really want Sony to answer that for me to be satisfied with them.
I agree that 8-stop IBIS is a very compelling feature. My A7R IV has only 16% more resolution (linear) and offers 5.5 stops of IBIS. The new Canon bodies offers almost 3 extra stops of compensation. How did they do that?
If you shoot video, the new Canon R5 pretty much embarrassed current Sony bodies. But we have to wait for the new A7S III as it could match Canon's specs (except for 8K). So far we only know the EVF has higher resolution.
The A9II is still on top for sports and action, but Sony will be chasing Canon and improve animal AF, IBIS and video for their future models.
Sony has a better sports camera (A9II), perhaps a similar spec. video-centric camera - without 8K (A7S III) and a higher resolution body (A7R IV) but Canon was able to combine all these features into one camera. That's very appealing as well.
A all-rounder camera!
p.4 #18 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
I moved to Sony from Canon when Canon did not have what I wanted...a full frame compact light camera for travel. Sony had this in the A7R and I jumped from the 5D2. Now Canon has a compact mirrorless camera...what does it give me that I don't already have with my Sony cameras? Really...what exactly will the R5 give me that will improve my photography so much that I will spend thousands of dollars to move to Canon? Nothing.
p.4 #19 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Agree with Fred above. The R5 could potentially act as a single body replacement for the Sony A9 + A7RIV. This is what I currently own and I'm sure I'm not alone in this. The A9 for sports and the A7RIV for landscape. My gut feeling is that I will still prefer the A9 for sports over the R5 because of the blackout free viewfinder and the faster sensor scan times. I shoot my daughters Volleyball and that ball moves very fast and looked pretty wonky when I shot it the Fuji X-T3 with electronic shutter.
I agree that 8-stop IBIS is a very compelling feature. My A7R IV has only 16% more resolution (linear) and offers 5.5 stops of IBIS. The new Canon bodies offers almost 3 extra stops of compensation. How did they do that?
If you shoot video, the new Canon R5 pretty much embarrassed current Sony bodies. But we have to wait for the new A7S III as it could match Canon's specs (except for 8K). So far we only know the EVF has higher resolution.
The A9II is still on top for sports and action, but Sony will be chasing Canon and improve animal AF, IBIS and video for their future models.
Sony has a better sports camera (A9II), perhaps a similar spec. video-centric camera - without 8K (A7S III) and a higher resolution body (A7R IV) but Canon was able to combine all these features into one camera. That's very appealing as well.
A all-rounder camera! ...Show more →
But it might be a jack of all trades...master of none.
. For me, the nice thing about Canon is all the used professional L glass that can be had for cheap. I want to get a 600 F/4 at some point, and its simply not an option on Sony with the current pricing.