p.22 #1 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
NJPhotographer wrote:
Another example, at 2:35 Samo Vidic appears to shoot this kayaker ok with electronic shutter:
?t=155
The e-shutter seems to be good enough for human action. Maybe not for spinning propellers, etc. These are promo videos, so it's something that impartial reviewers should test.
Two things about the kayak shots. First they are not moving very fast in the first place.
Second, they are using multiple flashes to freeze the action.
All the examples I have seen put out by Canon so far seem carefully choreographed.
Why not show a bird in flight, a runner, or a golf swing, so we can judge against these things where rolling shutter is often tested?
The tires on the motorcycles in the first video are showing a slight oval shape due to rolling shutter.
I guess all of this will be known when it get into independent testing hands, with no NDAs.
Even with the things being called out about the new cameras, they an impressive advancement for Canon in the mirrorless space. They will find a place in many peoples bag for sure.
p.22 #3 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
jeffbuzz wrote:
Cameras are only as useful as the lenses available to fit them. So far, Canon has produced zero RF lenses of interest to me. I am certainly not going to buy an R5 so I can put a 600mm f/11 lens on it.
This is exactly my feeling. Im sure the cameras are going to be great, but overall I don't like the RF lens selections so far - I guess the 100-500, and 70-200 are fine, but those gigantic F1.2s and 28-70F2 are not for me.
Jul 18, 2020 at 10:41 AM
osv2 Offline • • • • [X]
p.22 #4 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
NJPhotographer wrote:
Another example, at 2:35 Samo Vidic appears to shoot this kayaker ok with electronic shutter:
?t=155
video is not photos, and the kayak isn't moving fast in the pic that he put in the video.
NJPhotographer wrote:
The e-shutter seems to be good enough for human action.
it's not suitable for real sports work, we've already explained why and where it's deficient.
NJPhotographer wrote:
Maybe not for spinning propellers, etc. These are promo videos, so it's something that impartial reviewers should test.
promo videos that are designed to hide defects, and make people who don't know any better buy the gear.
any camera can be used to shoot sports, but that doesn't make it suitable for the job.
here, i shot these motorsports photos back in 2008 with a pentax k10d junk body, using manual focus... good pics, which by your logic means that the pentax k10d is good enough to shoot action, we don't even need autofocus :-0
p.22 #5 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
osv2 wrote:
video is not photos, and the kayak isn't moving fast in the pic that he put in the video.
it's not suitable for real sports work, we've already explained why and where it's deficient.
Who is "we" ?
Jared Polin shot a basketball game with the 1DX3 in LV and it worked just fine. If that is anything to go by, Canon has released a great camera that will work just fine in "real sports" situations.
p.22 #6 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
NonDecaf wrote:
Jared Polin shot a basketball game with the 1DX3 in LV and it worked just fine. If that is anything to go by, Canon has released a great camera that will work just fine in "real sports" situations.
If he used e-shutter the Canon images with a lot of motion will show severe distortion.
p.22 #7 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
vdo1 wrote:
I'm not sure why you gents are still debating this. The Canon has Canon colors, Canon menus, and Canon logo. The Sony has none of this thus Canon wins.
If one cares about those things. Coming from Canon to Nikon to Sony, I never had any problem with menus. Never understood why it's such an issue.
Now Canon looks like they may have finally caught up with high resolution and better DR in a mirrorless body. Successful competition is good for all photographers, but I doubt many people who moved to Nikon/Sony five years ago, looking for more resolution and dynamic range, will go back. It's just not smart business. If you have money to burn and want to have fun - it looks like a great system.
p.22 #8 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
stevesanacore wrote:
If one cares about those things. Coming from Canon to Nikon to Sony, I never had any problem with menus. Never understood why it's such an issue.
Now Canon looks like they may have finally caught up with high resolution and better DR in a mirrorless body. Successful competition is good for all photographers, but I doubt many people who moved to Nikon/Sony five years ago, looking for more resolution and dynamic range, will go back. It's just not smart business. If you have money to burn and want to have fun - it looks like a great system.
Steve, I think vdo1 was trying to be funny. That's why he put an emoticon with a big toothy grin at the end.
Made me laugh.
Jul 18, 2020 at 06:55 PM
osv2 Offline • • • • [X]
p.22 #9 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
NonDecaf wrote:
Who is "we" ?
Jared Polin shot a basketball game with the 1DX3 in LV and it worked just fine. If that is anything to go by, Canon has released a great camera that will work just fine in "real sports" situations.
what part of canon themselves telling you that their electronic shutter has jello, was unclear to you? what part of slow sensor readout on canon sensors did you not understand?
here is the direct quote from the canon r5/r6 product launch video below: "when a fast object is moving you'll get kind of a skew off of the image"
p.22 #10 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
lightskyland wrote:
If he used e-shutter the Canon images with a lot of motion will show severe distortion.
Ah, my bad. I assumed it was eshutter because there was no blackout. I guess the 1DX does frame insertion...
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osv2 wrote:
what part of canon themselves telling you that their electronic shutter has jello, was unclear to you? what part of slow sensor readout on canon sensors did you not understand?
here is the direct quote from the canon r5/r6 product launch video below: "when a fast object is moving you'll get kind of a skew off of the image"
&feature=youtu.be&t=1450
I'd like to see a review/video of someone shooting sports with electronic shutter.
p.22 #11 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
dclark wrote:
Steve, I think vdo1 was trying to be funny. That's why he put an emoticon with a big toothy grin at the end.
Made me laugh.
I kind of thought that but wasn't sure, and hope my response didn't come off as a rebuttal. I try and stay objective as so many others are brand loyal to a fault and don't seem to see the big picture.
p.22 #12 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
For me, the ultimate factor in choosing a camera/system is the IQ its sensor can produce and so far, Sony has been ahead of Canon. I couldn't care for least about the 8k shooting capability of R5. I am yet to use the 4K shooting feature of my Sony cameras! A month ago, I tried it for the first time shooting some 4K footage in one of the Sony log profiles. Now, I need to learn how to process the resulting video, lol. Does anybody know of an online tutorial on how to process these log videos? I intend to use Davinci Resolve for this.
R5 has some advantage over A7r iii: complete touch interface. It's so frustrating that Sony keeps postponing this. It may ultimately end up being the reason for me to switch to Canon or Nikon, lol, because I am getting tired of this nonsense. I see the joystick on the R5 is further away from the back lcd. It's a pain to use it on my Sony camera whenever I pull out the LCD. A fully articulating LCD is another nice feature the Canon has. On the other hand, I am sure if I examine the R5 in my hands, I will also find some advantages for the Sony camera. I like very much the fact that I can program most button according to my needs even though, Sony should still make improvements on this. In fact, there are important ways to improve this with some minor modifications to the current firmware of Sony cameras.
p.22 #13 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
1bwana1 wrote:
Two things about the kayak shots. First they are not moving very fast in the first place.
Second, they are using multiple flashes to freeze the action.
All the examples I have seen put out by Canon so far seem carefully choreographed.
Why not show a bird in flight, a runner, or a golf swing, so we can judge against these things where rolling shutter is often tested?
The tires on the motorcycles in the first video are showing a slight oval shape due to rolling shutter.
I guess all of this will be known when it get into independent testing hands, with no NDAs.
Even with the things being called out about the new cameras, they an impressive advancement for Canon in the mirrorless space. They will find a place in many peoples bag for sure.
Concerning your comments on the kayaking scene. With all due respect have you ever shot whitewater kayaking of class V and above in remote locations, I did this sport for more than 30years. Not sure, but this river stretch might be the end of the great canyon of the Soca in Slovenia. To mount flashes close enough would be a huge effort, even more dangerous than kayaking. Yes kayaking is not that fast, but he shows sequences of images in drops with sharp faces. In drops the kayaker gets fast and the splashing water made face detect useless so far.
p.22 #14 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
What are your thoughts if sensor/IQ is the same or better than comparable Sony cameras like the A7RIII/IV? What advantages and disadvantages do you see for each system/camera besides the touch interface and articulating display?
raminolta wrote:
For me, the ultimate factor in choosing a camera/system is the IQ its sensor can produce and so far, Sony has been ahead of Canon. I couldn't care for least about the 8k shooting capability of R5. I am yet to use the 4K shooting feature of my Sony cameras! A month ago, I tried it for the first time shooting some 4K footage in one of the Sony log profiles. Now, I need to learn how to process the resulting video, lol. Does anybody know of an online tutorial on how to process these log videos? I intend to use Davinci Resolve for this.
R5 has some advantage over A7r iii: complete touch interface. It's so frustrating that Sony keeps postponing this. It may ultimately end up being the reason for me to switch to Canon or Nikon, lol, because I am getting tired of this nonsense. I see the joystick on the R5 is further away from the back lcd. It's a pain to use it on my Sony camera whenever I pull out the LCD. A fully articulating LCD is another nice feature the Canon has. On the other hand, I am sure if I examine the R5 in my hands, I will also find some advantages for the Sony camera. I like very much the fact that I can program most button according to my needs even though, Sony should still make improvements on this. In fact, there are important ways to improve this with some minor modifications to the current firmware of Sony cameras. ...Show more →
p.22 #15 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
NonDecaf wrote:
Ah, my bad. I assumed it was eshutter because there was no blackout. I guess the 1DX does frame insertion...
---------------------------------------------
I'd like to see a review/video of someone shooting sports with electronic shutter.
We see the difference of the 1dxiii to the A9 in some comparisons
?t=72
Won't affect all Sports or BIF, but some for sure.
p.22 #16 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
While I agree that the difference in IQ is splitting hairs, the UI and ergonomics of the R5 seem to be far superior to the A7 bodies. IBIS is reported to be better than any other FF offering, and very close in performance to Olympus, which is impressive considering how much bigger the sensor is.... some of the sample videos look like they were taken with a gimbal.
Still don't see a compelling reason to switch however. Unless you're happy with their gigantic and expensive lens lineup, Canon still has a lot of catching up to do.... which is ironic considering where Canon/Sony were 5 years ago. Things may get a bit more interesting when the R5 mk2 is released.
p.22 #17 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
snappu wrote:
While I agree that the difference in IQ is splitting hairs, the UI and ergonomics of the R5 seem to be far superior to the A7 bodies. IBIS is reported to be better than any other FF offering, and very close in performance to Olympus, which is impressive considering how much bigger the sensor is.... some of the sample videos look like they were taken with a gimbal.
Still don't see a compelling reason to switch however. Unless you're happy with their gigantic and expensive lens lineup, Canon still has a lot of catching up to do.... which is ironic considering where Canon/Sony were 5 years ago. Things may get a bit more interesting when the R5 mk2 is released....Show more →
Ergonomics is subjective. I prefer the A9ii, A7riii ergo over Canon (1dx2, 5div, R). I like the front and rear wheel as well as the multi selector wheel position. Lets me change SS, ISO, aperture immediately. Similarly to Nikon's positioning, which I liked, too. Canons wheel position is awkward for me. I don't like the on/off switch position, too.
Now with grip or RRS base plate I cannot complain even after 12h constant shooting at weddings.
I think it is important to realise this to be as subjective as it gets.
p.22 #18 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
BokehBeauty wrote:
Concerning your comments on the kayaking scene. With all due respect have you ever shot whitewater kayaking of class V and above in remote locations, I did this sport for more than 30years. Not sure, but this river stretch might be the end of the great canyon of the Soca in Slovenia. To mount flashes close enough would be a huge effort, even more dangerous than kayaking. Yes kayaking is not that fast, but he shows sequences of images in drops with sharp faces. In drops the kayaker gets fast and the splashing water made face detect useless so far. ...Show more →
Yes I have both seen it and done it. Was at Soca last year, but just as a tourist.
As for the flashes. You can see them go off in the video. You can see them reflected im the images. You can See the radio transmitter on top of his camera
p.22 #19 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
1bwana1 wrote:
Yes I have both seen it and done it. Was at Soca last year, but just as a tourist.
As for the flashes. You can see them go off in the video. You can see them reflected im the images. You can See the radio transmitter on top of his camera
You are right, at least the last images with the 300mm were using flash(es). A lesson for me, how far “ambassadors” go to promote a product even with simple photos.
p.22 #20 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
You are right, at least the last images with the 300mm were using flash(es). A lesson for me, how far “ambassadors” go to promote a product even with simple photos.
Rainer,
Yes, I too find using flash for river kayaking unusual. You have more experience in this sport than I do, so you will know how common it is. It may be just this photographer's standard practice in order to get better images.
I don't recall ever seeing a release announcement where the demonstrators (testers) were so obviously restricted by NDA in what the were able to show and talk about. Canon seems to really be trying hard to control that narrative on these cameras. This could be the result of having to do everything remotely because of the Covid-19 crisis. This is a new model for everyone. However, it does give me pause, so although these look like amazing cameras, I am withholding my final opinion until the cameras are in general distribution, and have been thoroughly tested by independent reviewers.
