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Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

Fred Miranda
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p.8 #1 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

rscheffler wrote:
No way, not now. Going all CV 10 years ago, then yes, maybe. But given what Cosina has produced recently, this is a very logical selection of lenses.

Yeah, I'd prefer to avoid the mid zone dip and the ninja star aperture at f/2.5-5.6. But the diameter of the 50/1.2 would present some problems with my current camera bag layout. A while back I was very tempted to buy the 21/3.5, 35/2 and 50/1.2...

Once Canon release the R5, I'll be curious to see how some of these CV lenses work with that sensor stack...

Thanks for the additional info. I...Show more →

It's amazing how the CV 50/1.2 Nokton is similar to the Leica 50/1.4 Lux in size and weight. The former is a tad wider to accommodate the faster aperture but it's a little shorter than the Leica.. The main spec advantage for the Leica is FLE for higher performance at close distance.

It's very likely Voigtlander will release a 50/2 APO in M-mount soon. I'd say it's worth the wait because the E-mount version is an extraordinary lens.

Jun 20, 2020 at 07:12 PM

rscheffler
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p.8 #2 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

I will wait for the VM50/2 APO

The 50/1.2 is 1.1cm wider in diameter than the 50 Lux ASPH. This doesn't seem like much on paper, but makes a difference in a small camera bag where space is at a premium. Also for potential viewfinder blockage, though I have not used it so am not sure how significant it is, especially considering it's slightly shorter...

rscheffler wrote:
TBH, the test by pmeheut above wouldn't show the FC issue clearly. A better subject for FC analysis would be a mid-distance subject that doesn't span the width of the frame with an area of detailed/textured ground around it, such as a lawn, gravel or stones.

pmeheut wrote:
Can you show me an example? If so, I may try to reproduce it.

Sorry for the slow reply. If you wish, you may read my LUF post which contains a Google Photos link to the test photos.

Re-reading it, the field curvature I experienced with the v2 lens was towards the camera as the plane progressed off axis (I may have mistakenly stated earlier that it curved away from the camera - which was the FC characteristics of the v1).

The point of my test was to include something flat across half of the frame from the center to an edge that also allowed for subject matter behind and in front. In my case it was a soccer goal with trees behind.

Jun 22, 2020 at 04:35 PM

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p.8 #3 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

rscheffler wrote:
I will wait for the VM50/2 APO

Jun 22, 2020 at 04:58 PM

zhangyue
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p.8 #4 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

rscheffler wrote:
I will wait for the VM50/2 APO

The 50/1.2 is 1.1cm wider in diameter than the 50 Lux ASPH. This doesn't seem like much on paper, but makes a difference in a small camera bag where space is at a premium. Also for potential viewfinder blockage, though I have not used it so am not sure how significant it is, especially considering it's slightly shorter...

Sorry for the slow reply. If you wish, you may read my LUF post which contains a Google Photos link to the test photos.

Re-reading it, the field curvature I experienced with the v2 lens was towards...Show more →

Hi, Ron, I tested 28cron v2 on M and SL2, and tested v1 before on M9 and M240. I think it is definitely improved performance at infinity at wide aperture.
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Fred Miranda wrote:
I'm speculating this based on previous E and VM versions: The CV 50/2 APO VM may be ~ 55mm diameter, 51mm length and about 260g. So possibly closer in diameter to the Leica while being noticeably lighter.

I don't have Voigtlander APO on hand to take a look, but I had a speculation that it may not be able to ported to Leica M. Depend on the last element size and distance to sensor (at all range of focus distance), Leica M has both smaller throat and longer registration distance.

Jun 22, 2020 at 08:02 PM

pmeheut
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p.8 #5 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

rscheffler wrote:
Sorry for the slow reply.

No worries. I'm quite busy myself.

rscheffler wrote:
If you wish, you may read my LUF post which contains a Google Photos link to the test photos.
Re-reading it, the field curvature I experienced with the v2 lens was towards the camera as the plane progressed off axis (I may have mistakenly stated earlier that it curved away from the camera - which was the FC characteristics of the v1).

I see what you are talking about in your photographs. I may have enough time to do some comparison shots by the end of the week.

Jun 22, 2020 at 10:13 PM

Steve Spencer
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p.8 #6 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

Fred Miranda wrote:
I'm speculating this based on previous E and VM versions: The CV 50/2 APO VM may be ~ 55mm diameter, 51mm length and about 260g. So possibly closer in diameter to the Leica while being noticeably lighter.

I think the 260g is perhaps a bit optimistic, but 275g does seem possible. Keep in my the Leica M 50 f/2 APO's weight includes the built in hood, so at 275g without a hood they would be very similar in weight. I think if Voigtlander builds this lens it will be very close in both size and weight to the Leica. I suspect the Voigtlander will be a bit wider diameter and the Leica will be a bit longer, and although the Voigtlander will weigh less the Leica has the built-in hood that will mostly account for the difference.

Jun 23, 2020 at 10:13 AM

rscheffler
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p.8 #7 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

Fred Miranda wrote:
I'm speculating this based on previous E and VM versions: The CV 50/2 APO VM may be ~ 55mm diameter, 51mm length and about 260g. So possibly closer in diameter to the Leica while being noticeably lighter.

zhangyue wrote:
Hi, Ron, I tested 28cron v2 on M and SL2, and tested v1 before on M9 and M240. I think it is definitely improved performance at infinity at wide aperture.
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I don't have Voigtlander APO on hand to take a look, but I had a speculation that it may not be able to ported to Leica M. Depend on the last element size and distance to sensor (at all range of focus distance), Leica M has both smaller throat and longer registration distance.

Hi Michael,

Yes, I recall you mentioned that before and I don't doubt it. I don't want to sidetrack this thread too much with my 28 Cron v2 experience because it's probably not representative of the majority of the copies of this lens.

I also wonder about the adaptability of the 50/2 to M mount for the reasons you mentiond. As you know, protruding rear elements are not uncommon with M lenses. However, the 50/2's block diagram indicates the rear element diameter is quite large and therefore may not port easily to M mount. IMO that would be unfortunate... As a consolation, I would accept it in Canon RF mount, which I think should be straightforward.

Jun 23, 2020 at 10:25 AM

Steve Spencer
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p.8 #8 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

zhangyue wrote:
Hi, Ron, I tested 28cron v2 on M and SL2, and tested v1 before on M9 and M240. I think it is definitely improved performance at infinity at wide aperture.
---------------------------------------------

I don't have Voigtlander APO on hand to take a look, but I had a speculation that it may not be able to ported to Leica M. Depend on the last element size and distance to sensor (at all range of focus distance), Leica M has both smaller throat and longer registration distance.

I suspect it might take some reformulation of the design (and that is why we haven't seen a Leica M version yet), but probably more for the flange distance than for the mount diameter. The Leica M has a 44mm diameter and the Sony E is 46.1mm, so they are fairly close and this is only an f/2 lens, so I suspect the diameter is fine. I would not be surprised if it took a reformulation to deal with the about 10mm difference in registration distance, however. I sure hope they do make it as a Leica M mount lens as it would be a great alternative on that mount and would put some nice pressure on Leica to lower the price of their 50 f/2 APO.

Jun 23, 2020 at 10:26 AM

rscheffler
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p.8 #9 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

The difference is the M mount inner diameter also has to accommodate the RF cam. I quickly measured the rear element size of the 50 Lux ASPH and the glass itself is 25mm and the outside of the focusing helicoid, inside which the rear element sits, and that moves against the inside of the RF cam, is 32mm...

Anyone with the CV 50/2 APO able to measure the rear element diameter?

Jun 23, 2020 at 11:23 AM

billsnature
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p.8 #10 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

I get 0.994" so call it 1" for rear element on CV 50 APO. Could be slightly off on measurement as I don't want to scratch element with caliper, but close.

Bill

Jun 23, 2020 at 11:43 AM

rscheffler
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p.8 #11 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

Great, thanks! That's about the same size as the 50 Lux ASPH. Is the rear element flush with the lens mount, or recessed a bit?

Edit: I found a shot of the rear element in Dustin Abbott's review. It looks a little recessed, but not a lot. If it's physically possible to port to M mount, I'd guess the rear element would protrude beyond the lens mount.

Jun 23, 2020 at 11:47 AM

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p.8 #12 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

It is recessed about 0.17' maybe. Curved element so I am guessing distance based on the edge which is highest recess

Jun 23, 2020 at 11:57 AM

zhangyue
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p.8 #13 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

rscheffler wrote:
Hi Michael,

Yes, I recall you mentioned that before and I don't doubt it. I don't want to sidetrack this thread too much with my 28 Cron v2 experience because it's probably not representative of the majority of the copies of this lens.

I also wonder about the adaptability of the 50/2 to M mount for the reasons you mentiond. As you know, protruding rear elements are not uncommon with M lenses. However, the 50/2's block diagram indicates the rear element diameter is quite large and therefore may not port easily to M mount. IMO that would be unfortunate... As a consolation,...Show more →

Hi, Ron, I was surprised to see it was that good actually, because of your post in LUF, I hold my purchase as I trust your evaluation more than most of fans over there. I finally bite the bullet to buy it because I no longer have 28mm M lens, I had and loved v1, but with RX1, I almost never use it anymore and then I sold my RX1 and start missing 28mm. It do have focus shift and I didn't thoroughly evaluate it at mid distance but only infinity. So you might be right that it do have FC just I didn't notice it, but at infinity, the f2 performance is more like f4 of v1 at extreme corner. (both one copy

)

With R5, you are covered with all great AF glasses and hopefully soon VC manual glasses

---------------------------------------------

Steve Spencer wrote:
I suspect it might take some reformulation of the design (and that is why we haven't seen a Leica M version yet), but probably more for the flange distance than for the mount diameter. The Leica M has a 44mm diameter and the Sony E is 46.1mm, so they are fairly close and this is only an f/2 lens, so I suspect the diameter is fine. I would not be surprised if it took a reformulation to deal with the about 10mm difference in registration distance, however. I sure hope they do make it as a Leica M mount...Show more →

It would be great they can port the design to M, I really do think this is a preferred solution to user like me that don't want lock into a single system. With Z mount, I can only use on Nikon. Even FE mount, I am limited to only to Sony and Nikon but I don't want get back to Sony, at least till today, there is nothing make me want to get back for users don't use their AF tech.

Having said that, 50lux is still my favorite 50mm lens, I sold my 50APO and keep it simple. I bought a few Voigtlander glasses over the year, but sold them all after a period, I know they are popular here, 40mm f1.2 is one of better ones I liked but still prefer Leica glass in the end. I may not need this f2 APO either

Jun 23, 2020 at 12:36 PM

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p.8 #14 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

zhangyue wrote:
Hi, Ron, I was surprised to see it was that good actually, because of your post in LUF, I hold my purchase as I trust your evaluation more than most of fans over there. I finally bite the bullet to buy it because I no longer have 28mm M lens, I had and loved v1, but with RX1, I almost never use it anymore and then I sold my RX1 and start missing 28mm. It do have focus shift and I didn't thoroughly evaluate it at mid distance but only infinity. So you might be right that it do have...Show more →

I think it would be great if Voigtlander made this available as an option. I think their 50 f/1.2 is fantastic and their 75 f/1.5 is as well. It seems the 35 f/1.2 III is great as well, so adding this 50 would really be nice. I loved the Leica M 50 f/2 AA, and I think the Voigtlander is quite similar and maybe in a couple of ways better (I love the aperture blades of the Voigtlander). Still I am not sure I would get it. Currently I am looking at a kit with the Voigtlander 35 f/1.2 III and 75 f/1.5, so I am not sure whether I will even keep a 50. Still I like having options and this is an excellent one.

Jun 23, 2020 at 01:15 PM

retrofocus
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p.8 #15 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

Steve Spencer wrote:
I think it would be great if Voigtlander made this available as an option. I think their 50 f/1.2 is fantastic and their 75 f/1.5 is as well. It seems the 35 f/1.2 III is great as well, so adding this 50 would really be nice. I loved the Leica M 50 f/2 AA, and I think the Voigtlander is quite similar and maybe in a couple of ways better (I love the aperture blades of the Voigtlander). Still I am not sure I would get it. Currently I am looking at a kit with the Voigtlander 35 f/1.2...Show more →

Just out of curiosity, other than the technical specs of those lenses, what drives you using these very fast M-lenses? I am asking because I have the CV 35/1.2 II, and I don't use it often due to the size/weight of the lens. In > 90% of cases shooting outdoors, I am using the 35/2.0 instead because I even use this rarely at f/2.0. I sometimes use the 35/1.2 II with extension tube at f/1.4 for close-up shots which provide a wonderful bokeh - so I can clearly see fast lenses like this being used for this purpose. For portraits, I personally find f/1.4 with 50 mm FL or higher already too shallow in DoF. A lens like the 75/1.5 would be overkill for my usage at least - I am certain there might be good uses of them I simply can't think of. Night shooting maybe?

Jun 24, 2020 at 06:50 AM

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p.8 #16 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

I've been thinking about this a lot recently. As you imply, it depends a great deal on the style of the photographer, but in my opinion, the chief advantage of wide aperture lenses is their versatility.

I have a kit of big, heavy, sharp, wide-aperture, AF lenses that I use for portraits, professional work, and landscape and travel shoots where I'm not walking too far. For street shooting or any situation where I don't want to be weighed down by 10 pounds of gear, I maintain a smaller kit of manual lenses. This kit has undergone a lot of change over the years as my style of shooting has changed. Until very recently I was enamored with the idea of small, high quality, moderate aperture lenses like the Loxia 25mm, the 50mm APO Lanthar, or the old C/Y 85mm sonnar. It's taken me a while to admit it, but they just don't work for me. I rarely start shooting until the late afternoon (even later on a work day), and I usually keep going past dusk and into the night, which comes early here in Boston. I also often find myself shooting indoors, taking pictures of people - friends and strangers - in dimly lit places. That's where lenses like the Voigtlander 1.2's come into play. The have an extremely wide aperture but are still relatively small; they're acceptably sharp wide open and they perform very well when stopped down; they work day or night, indoors or out. As an added bonus, I have maximum control over the appearance of the background, which comes in handy shooting portraiture in tight spaces, or shooting more generally in a cinematic style. So for me, the chief appeal of these lenses is that they are maximally flexible. As long as the weight and size don't bother you (and they're not too big and heavy in the scheme of things), they can do pretty much anything.

Still lust after that APO Lanthar, though.

Jun 24, 2020 at 10:01 AM

Steve Spencer
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p.8 #17 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

retrofocus wrote:
Just out of curiosity, other than the technical specs of those lenses, what drives you using these very fast M-lenses? I am asking because I have the CV 35/1.2 II, and I don't use it often due to the size/weight of the lens. In > 90% of cases shooting outdoors, I am using the 35/2.0 instead because I even use this rarely at f/2.0. I sometimes use the 35/1.2 II with extension tube at f/1.4 for close-up shots which provide a wonderful bokeh - so I can clearly see fast lenses like this being used for this purpose. For portraits,...Show more →

For me these fast lenses provide versatility, and these particular Voigtlanders do so while keeping the weight down. The new 35 f/1.2 III weighs just 332g and the 75 f/1.5 only weighs 350g. I like the fast aperture for indoor shooting under fairly low light. I would say about 30% of my shots with a 35 or 40 and about 15% of my 75 shots I do shoot at wide apertures indoors to keep ISOs down. In general I want my manual focus primes to be part of a travel kit and for a travel kit versatility and small size are two of the things I am most looking for in lenses. I think these two Voigtlanders (the 35 f/1.2 III and the 75 f/1.5) are great examples of what I am looking for in manual focus lenses.

That said, I am very intrigued by the Voigtlander 50 f/2 APO, and it has a different sort of versatility (very good close up performance) that neither of the other two Voigtlanders have. I plan to get a Leica M10 in the next year or so, and if I do then I will probably go with a 21, 35, 75, 135 set of lens with the Voigtlander 35 f/1.2 III and 75 f/1.5 as the central lenses or a 21, 28, 50, 100 set of lenses with the Leica M 28 f/2 and Voigtlander 50 f/2 APO as the central lenses if the Voigtlander 50 f/2 APO is released for Leica M mount. I am leaning toward the first kit, but I am still very intrigued by the second kit.

Jun 24, 2020 at 11:12 AM

retrofocus
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p.8 #18 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

Steve Spencer wrote:
For me these fast lenses provide versatility, and these particular Voigtlanders do so while keeping the weight down. The new 35 f/1.2 III weighs just 332g and the 75 f/1.5 only weighs 350g. I like the fast aperture for indoor shooting under fairly low light. I would say about 30% of my shots with a 35 or 40 and about 15% of my 75 shots I do shoot at wide apertures indoors to keep ISOs down. In general I want my manual focus primes to be part of a travel kit and for a travel kit versatility and small...Show more →

Thanks, makes sense! I remember you were an early adaptor with the M10 before it got stolen which you mentioned here a few years ago. Best of luck with a new copy. I am still on the fence moving to a digital M.

Jun 24, 2020 at 11:28 AM

Fred Miranda
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p.8 #19 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

Steve Spencer wrote:
For me these fast lenses provide versatility, and these particular Voigtlanders do so while keeping the weight down. The new 35 f/1.2 III weighs just 332g and the 75 f/1.5 only weighs 350g. I like the fast aperture for indoor shooting under fairly low light. I would say about 30% of my shots with a 35 or 40 and about 15% of my 75 shots I do shoot at wide apertures indoors to keep ISOs down. In general I want my manual focus primes to be part of a travel kit and for a travel kit versatility and small...Show more →

The new 35/1.2 III VM is very compact and light for a f/1.2 lens. Same can be said for the CV 75/1.5.
After testing their capabilities, both Nokton lenses were non-brainers for my M240 and subsequently the M10.
I really like shooting with 35 + 75 as a two compact + fast set on the M10.

I do own 21m, 28mm, 50 and 135mm M lenses as well but I tend to use them for specific shootings. If I want to go very light with slower lenses, I usually taking the CV 28/2 + CV 50/3.5 as a combo. Really like the images they produce.

Jun 24, 2020 at 11:50 AM

zhangyue
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p.8 #20 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

You guys� post make me want give VC75 another look.

I am not sold on that 35mm somehow but to be fair I don�t like Zeiss distagon either unless not for shallow DOF images.

Still missing a nice 35mm M lens, I absolutely love 35lux V1 preASPH but that is a special purpose tool, really not for everyone.

Jun 24, 2020 at 12:33 PM

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