Sy Sez wrote:
Likely, both the "R", & RP will be/are one-time stop-gap camera,s and not fall into standard Canon lineup.
This...I don't think the R and RP will not see Mark II versions. Canon has figured out a strategy going forward with naming similar to the DSLRs. R6 will be in 6D class, R5 in 5D class and likely an R1 eventually. Not sure if they will also do a higher than 45MP R5R or R3 (R3 seems a better choice).
Unfortunately if the R line dies that also gets rid of the 30MP sweet spot (IMHO) skew. We might be seeing a ~20MP R6 and R1 with a. 40-45MP R5 and then maybe some 60-80MP R3 (R5R). Of course if Canon knocks it out of the park with the 45MP R5 sensor then maybe I'll be happy with that anyways. I've been fairly happy with the 45MP D850 and am becoming more and more happy with the 60MP A7RIV lately. Still I do like a 20-30MP sensor for lower light.
My dream would be a ~30MP R1 paired with an RF 600 f/4 DO but that probably won't happen.
I know somewhere back in this thread or maybe in the other R5 thread we had discussed sensor read speeds and how that can still put limits on fast bird photography and other types of photography (say golf clubs) when in e-shutter. Making fast wingbeat BIF photography a mechanical shutter affair
The 1DXIII is reported to be 1/60 which to my knowledge is the fastest sensor read to date from Canon and may well be the second fastest (behind the 1/120 A9) for any FF sensor.
Here is a video that shows the reality of distortion in e-shutter with even a 1/60 read vs a 1/120 read:
&feature=youtu.be
Now as I've mentioned before, for a lot of BIF I haven't seen much distortion on the wings themselves when shooting slower birds like seagulls or eagles even with much slower read sensors in Z7, A7RIV. But with faster wing beats (hummingbirds being the most taxing), the distortion does ruin and image. In a camera like 1DXIII that offers full 20FPS in mechanical anyways, it likely won't be a big deal for most applications. Although I have found that using a silent shutter for hummingbirds does keep them around the flowers considerably longer than any mechanical shutter. They aren't always disturbed by mechanical sounds but as I get closer and closer they tend to be. In relation to the R5, this means 12FPS (plenty for hummingbirds anyways) would be the top FPS if you want to shoot silently for fast moving subjects. It is highly unlikely a 45MP sensor will even match the 1/60 of the 1DXIII.
lighthound wrote:
I've got 2 rolls of toilet paper that I'm willing to bet that it will.
Charmin's quilted even.
Based on what information? I can't see the readout on a FF 45MP sensor being anywhere near as fast as a FF 20MP sensor - nevermind on a camera that will costs thousands less.
Can't help but wonder if there might be a future for the R-RP line in Canon's IBIS world. They could remain IBIS free and somewhat smaller, lighter and less expensive than the R# cameras. Good starter cameras and good hiking, backpacking and travel cameras for those who believe the best in-body-image-stabilization is a 1/4-20 tripod mount.
deepbluejh wrote:
Based on what information? I can't see the readout on a FF 45MP sensor being anywhere near as fast as a FF 20MP sensor - nevermind on a camera that will costs thousands less.
The only information we have is that it will be a "new generation sensor." All that would be required is a doubling in the speed readout. Too much of a leap?
deepbluejh wrote:
I can't see the readout on a FF 45MP sensor being anywhere near as fast as a FF 20MP sensor - nevermind on a camera that will costs thousands less.
Just because one can't "see" the air they breath or the stars on a cloudy night, does not mean they are not there.
Atlasman2 wrote:
The only information we have is that it will be a "new generation sensor." All that would be required is a doubling in the speed readout. Too much of a leap?
Right... but you realize the 1DxIII JUST released. It's not an old camera. We would be looking at over a 2x increase in performance versus a current flagship 1 series just to match it (more to exceed it). And these are cameras released less than a year from one another.
Possible... but I'm not sure I can see Canon making this move. Keep in mind they have to keep some performance in their back pocket for the R1 whenever it comes out.
eephoto wrote:
That was my question too... Cause if so I may just have to go with Sony. Right now I'm in a holding pattern. Thought I would need to make a decision soon but with all of my weddings being postponed or cancelled, other then serious GAS, I can now afford to wait for the release if it happens in the next 3-5 months. But wow.. the GAS is painful!
deepbluejh wrote:
Right... but you realize the 1DxIII JUST released. It's not an old camera. We would be looking at over a 2x increase in performance versus a current flagship 1 series just to match it (more to exceed it). And these are cameras released less than a year from one another.
Possible... but I'm not sure I can see Canon making this move. Keep in mind they have to keep some performance in their back pocket for the R1 whenever it comes out.
I understand that the 1DXIII has just been released, but I'm seeing signs from Canon that cannibalization of the DSLR line is no longer a consideration—it's better they do it versus Sony or Nikon doing it. Besides, I don't see a conflict between the 1DXIII and the R5—one is highly specialized and the other is more generalized. As for the R1, they need to compete with the Sony's A7RIV and not the A9—the way larger market.
Atlasman2 wrote:
As for the R1, they need to compete with the Sony's A7RIV and not the A9—the way larger market.
I don't think so....I would say the R5 is the one that will be competing with the A7RIV and the Z7. The theoretical R1 would be the 1DX replacement and therefore it should and will be competing with the A9 line and not a high MP A7RIV.
Based on what we know so far about the R5 and what we know about the LV of the 1DXIII, I'd say the R5 is already way stronger than a Z7 and will have a number of advantages over the A7RIV. Whether the A7RIV will still retain a few advantages of its own (possibly AF but who knows) is yet to be seen.
arbitrage wrote:
This...I don't think the R and RP will not see Mark II versions. Canon has figured out a strategy going forward with naming similar to the DSLRs. R6 will be in 6D class, R5 in 5D class and likely an R1 eventually. Not sure if they will also do a higher than 45MP R5R or R3 (R3 seems a better choice).
Unfortunately if the R line dies that also gets rid of the 30MP sweet spot (IMHO) skew. We might be seeing a ~20MP R6 and R1 with a. 40-45MP R5 and then maybe some 60-80MP R3 (R5R). Of course if Canon knocks it out of the park with the 45MP R5 sensor then maybe I'll be happy with that anyways. I've been fairly happy with the 45MP D850 and am becoming more and more happy with the 60MP A7RIV lately. Still I do like a 20-30MP sensor for lower light.
My dream would be a ~30MP R1 paired with an RF 600 f/4 DO but that probably won't happen....Show more →
I didn't mean an end to the "R" series, just to the current R, & RP.
The TechRadar/Canon Interview suggests that there will be series of "R" models similar to that of the DSLR line, & SLR lineup from the EOS1 in 1989, prior to that.
Sy Sez wrote:
I didn't mean an end to the "R" series, just to the current R, & RP.
The TechRadar/Canon Interview suggests that there will be series of "R" models similar to that of the DSLR line, & SLR lineup prior to that.
I just re-read my first sentence and I incorrectly did a double negative...I meant to say I don't think the R and RP will get Mark II versions.
But the rest of my post is correct in my thoughts. I don't think there will be EOS R Mark II or EOS RP Mark II. Maybe there will be EOS RP Mark II but I just don't see an EOS R Mark II as it won't fit anywhere and the naming won't make sense if the upcoming ones all get numbers (R6, R5, R1 etc). Maybe RP gets a new name to keep it at the lowest priced slot like R7?
arbitrage wrote:
I don't think so....I would say the R5 is the one that will be competing with the A7RIV and the Z7. The theoretical R1 would be the 1DX replacement and therefore it should and will be competing with the A9 line and not a high MP A7RIV.
Based on what we know so far about the R5 and what we know about the LV of the 1DXIII, I'd say the R5 is already way stronger than a Z7 and will have a number of advantages over the A7RIV. Whether the A7RIV will still retain a few advantages of its own (possibly AF but who knows) is yet to be seen....Show more →
Sorry, what I meant to say was that the R1 shouldn't be a priority as Canon needs to compete with the A7RIV—and the R5 has great potential to take it to Sony—even in the auto-focus category.
Atlasman2 wrote:
Sorry, what I meant to say was that the R1 shouldn't be a priority as Canon needs to compete with the A7RIV—and the R5 has great potential to take it to Sony—even in the auto-focus category.
That makes sense. I agree that the R5 (just as the 5D series was before it) is a much more important camera to Canon R series than the R1 will be. Of course the R1 and 1D are flagships and are also important for the companies to have but won't be an important part of direct revenue.
The R6 that will likely be a Z6 and A7III (future A7IV) competitor.
My old prediction before the pandemic was the R1 would be a 2022 Winter Olympics release. Who knows now. Also who knows if R5 will be released on the original schedule (rumoured to be July).
arbitrage wrote:
My old prediction before the pandemic was the R1 would be a 2022 Winter Olympics release. Who knows now.
The R1 will be a huge introduction for Canon!
I hate to break it to ya but the Winter Olympics have about a 1/10th of the significance as the Summer Games, not exactly a backdrop to introduce the successor to a Flagship camera.
I still think a lot of the R&D has already been done and they are close to working prototypes!
BUT none of us are Canon so we'll all have to wait and see!!!
John
