Mike_5D wrote:
8 FPS mechanical with tracking is a good bet. The 5D3 did 6 FPS and the 5D4 did 7 FPS. By all accounts, this is the successor to that line.
Would be nice if it did 8.5fps to match the old 1DmkII
RustyBug wrote:
As to Canon about to unleash "shock & awe" in the mirrorless realm ... not holding my breath there, but I do look forward to seeing what they do in the 7 Series. Anyway, we are progressing into the Canon mirrorless era ... several years of change lie ahead.
Canon watchers are a jaded lot. I have listened to the Canon detractors for many years now complaining of "crippled" cameras, old sensors, high prices and generally announcing the death of Canon.
As Dan noted, Canon has a large and loyal base with a history of design that has stood Canon in good stead these many years.
The release of the 28-70 f2 is a halo lens that Nikon, Sony or anyone else has yet to deliver. The 85 f1.2 really challenges Zeiss Otus but with AF and a lower price. I believe that we will see more lenses that surprise and delight us and will see no counterpart in the competition. The ground work has been done to deliver very capable lenses and the missing piece to the puzzle has been the bodies.
What Canon has leaked comes with the caveat "we don't know until the product ships" however, that has not stopped people from speculating (as I have) as to what is coming.
For me, the evidence that Canon will be delivering a hallmark camera is strong in light of the lens introductions, the decently capable place-holder of the EOS R and the feature sets we know they can bring to the bodies. Again, as to the price we have zero information. But as I noted before, they did surprise the world with the D30 and then the 10D.
With the camera business in decline, there is scant room for a mediocre product with such potential impact on the cycle of upgrades the industry relies on.
artsupreme wrote:
Would be nice if it did 8.5fps to match the old 1DmkII
Interesting that you should mention the 1D II (2004 release) ... that's the same benchmark I use (having owned a II & II N).
I'll go for a solid 9 fps (exactly 75% of 12 fps) or 10 fps.
While it is reasonable for there to be a reduction, and 8 fps would seem to be the traditional trajectory ... I think Canon is in a "statement making" mode with this camera. Imo, 8 fps (while welcome compared to previous 5 series) says more same 'ol, same 'ol incremental.
To me, Canon is serving notice with a stiff uppercut here (R5) and a right cross (1DX III) , rather than another soft jab (R & RP). They've laid back on the ropes for several rounds while Sony throws punches, but I think they've spent enough time studying their opponent(s) from the ropes, that they have the "come out swinging" game plan in hand.
Given the amount of headroom the new 1DX III provides ... I think Canon can take a wider stance on the R5 without encroachment on the flagship. While not expected, even 11 or 12 fps would not surprise me as Canon punches back.
Assuming the market is reducing, then the point of "scant room" is salient and the era of "barely incremental" may need to be revised to something more compelling, and I think more compelling will be in the realm of 9+ fps, more so than same 'ol incremental crawl, from 7 fps to 8 fps. I mean, going from 7 to 8 is 1/7 or 14%, going to 9 is 2/7 or 28% and 10 is 3/7 or 42%. 14% just seems too little, imo ... something about "scant room" for mediocre improvement.
9.5 fps = 35%
I figure they'll land either side of this ^ at 9 or 10, but not more than this > 10.5 fps = 50%, and not this > 8 fps = 14% (8.5 fps = 21%)
mdvaden wrote:
I was certain you didn't get a Canon EOS R once I read this part of your comment:
"C- It has to be able to lock in dark conditions and lock on moving subjects in dark conditions- EOS R struggles"
Throw a Canon EF 85mm 1.2 or RF 50mm 1.2 on the EOS R and it leaves a 5D mk iv wanting.
I can see a few things some folks may not be thrilled with in an EOS R. Maybe the one card. Maybe the frame rate.
we have had this chat in the past
I had the EOS R at 4 weddings this summer....side by side against the 1Dx2 and 5D4...frankly i was surprised it missed like it did but the majority of normal wedding stuff was in focus....However...it struggled in dark reception rooms to get the exact shots the 5D4 captured. And we used the Sigma 85 1.4 on both bodies. Really disagree with your assessment. EOS R is a fine portrait, perched wildlife camera. It struggles when things start to move. Sure your going to get a few shots....But I dont want to click off 10 shots and hope 2 are in focus....a 1Dx2 and a moving subjects...I click off 10 then 9-10 are in focus....a 5D4....probably 6-7-8 of the 10 get in focus....Not so with the EOS R...its clearly missed more than it hit when the subject is moving and when it is dark and it was downright terrible with heavy backlight ....it really jumped to highlights on many staged shots
I had the EOS R at 4 weddings this summer....side by side against the 1Dx2 and 5D4...frankly i was surprised it missed like it did but the majority of normal wedding stuff was in focus....However...it struggled in dark reception rooms to get the exact shots the 5D4 captured. And we used the Sigma 85 1.4 on both bodies. Really disagree with your assessment. EOS R is a fine portrait, perched wildlife camera. It struggles when things start to move. Sure your going to get a few shots....But I dont want to click off 10 shots and hope 2 are in focus....a 1Dx2 and a moving subjects...I click off 10 then 9-10 are in focus....a 5D4....probably 6-7-8 of the 10 get in focus....Not so with the EOS R...its clearly missed more than it hit when the subject is moving and when it is dark and it was downright terrible with heavy backlight ....it really jumped to highlights on many staged shots
You say you used a Sigma 1.4. Have you tried RF lenses on the R? I tried the RF 50 1.2 on my spouses R yesterday and the face and eye AF was terrific in very dim light even when she moved.
therealthings wrote:
You say you used a Sigma 1.4. Have you tried RF lenses on the R? I tried the RF 50 1.2 on my spouses R yesterday and the face and eye AF was terrific in very dim light even when she moved.
No we did not. We only had the R24-105.....which I think is excellent. You are right ... it will probably perform better with the R85 or R50....I did get a chance to play with an R50....very impressive lens.......and R glass is why I am excited about the R5....EOS R is a non starter for most wedding photographers.....I wont buy a camera w/o dual cards
artsupreme wrote:
Does anyone else think that the R5 will do 8fps at minimum in mechanical AI servo? Based on history, I would say it will do 8fps at best with tracking, but what does everyone else think?
With that said if it is 8fps @ 40MP+, what would you expect the tracking performance equivalent to? Somewhere between a 7DII and 1DX?
Hmmm... I seem to have missed an update on the confirmed specs.
Where have you read that the specs are wrong? Do you have a link?
These were the last confirmed specs I was aware of.
Canon EOS R5 Specifications:
Named the Canon EOS R5
45mp full-frame CMOS sensor
IBIS
12fps mechanical, 20fps electronic
8K @ 30fps
4K @ 120fps
Built-in 5GHz WiFi
New battery, but the same shape and compatibility as the EOS 5D Mark IV
Announcement ahead of CP+ next month
Launching in July 2020
Announcement on or around February 13, 2020
Canon has already released a $850 mirrorless crop body that shoots 32.5mp @ 14 fps.
Why would anyone think they would then later release a Prosumer FF body shooting 40mp @ only 8 fps for $3499 or possibly more?
Call me crazy but I'm going with 45mp @ 12 fps mechanical & 20 fps elect. as these have been confirmed.
And my hope is that it get's at least 75% of the 1DXIII AF system. Ok, I really hope it get all of it but I can only push my dreams just so far.
Time to break out those light sabers Geoff posted in that video clip.
We are not talking about the specs, but what reservations that will apply when operating at max specs, and what we will be at for no reservations. I never noticed that anyone missed that context.
My personal opinion is that it is more than 50% likely that 12 fps will be with AF tracking, and 100% likely 8 fps or more.
lighthound wrote:
Hmmm... I seem to have missed an update on the confirmed specs.
Where have you read that the specs are wrong? Do you have a link?
These were the last confirmed specs I was aware of.
Canon EOS R5 Specifications:
Named the Canon EOS R5
45mp full-frame CMOS sensor
IBIS
12fps mechanical, 20fps electronic
8K @ 30fps
4K @ 120fps
Built-in 5GHz WiFi
New battery, but the same shape and compatibility as the EOS 5D Mark IV
Announcement ahead of CP+ next month
Launching in July 2020
Announcement on or around February 13, 2020
Canon has already released a $850 mirrorless crop body that shoots 32.5mp @ 14 fps.
Why would anyone think they would then later release a Prosumer FF body shooting 40mp @ only 8 fps for $3499 or possibly more?
Call me crazy but I'm going with 45mp @ 12 fps mechanical & 20 fps elect. as these have been confirmed.
And my hope is that it get's at least 75% of the 1DXIII AF system. Ok, I really hope it get all of it but I can only push my dreams just so far.
Time to break out those light sabers Geoff posted in that video clip.
Yeah, no one missed the specs. But what everyone is used to from Canon's history would be less than 12fps mech with tracking. I hope you are right in that we get a full 12fps with tracking performance being 75% of 1DXIII AF. I'm not quite sure Canon is going to remove the cripple hammer on that one though, we'll see.
Anyone know when we should expect to see final specs?
artsupreme wrote:
Anyone know when we should expect to see final specs?
I think the original rumor said a May, Photokina announcement for full specs with the early July release.
But I think there is a lot up in the air right now with virus outbreak. Fuji just announced the X-T4 and immediately said it will be delayed for release because of the virus. Who knows how the supply chain of certain parts may be affected. We shall see.
alundeb wrote:
We are not talking about the specs, but what reservations that will apply when operating at max specs, and what we will be at for no reservations. I never noticed that anyone missed that context.
My personal opinion is that it is more than 50% likely that 12 fps will be with AF tracking, and 100% likely 8 fps or more.
---------------------------------------------
artsupreme wrote:
Yeah, no one missed the specs. But what everyone is used to from Canon's history would be less than 12fps mech with tracking. I hope you are right in that we get a full 12fps with tracking performance being 75% of 1DXIII AF. I'm not quite sure Canon is going to remove the cripple hammer on that one though, we'll see.
Anyone know when we should expect to see final specs?
Well all the rumors for the 90D @ 10 fps proved to be true.
However I do recall some of the early rumors for the M6II were speculating it to be 16 fps I think so they missed it on that one.
Does anyone have a list (data) of Canons track record comparing confirmed rumors vs actual released spec's over the past few years?
I've not followed this much in the past so I'm curious how far off these confirmed specs have been in the past.
Well all the rumors for the 90D @ 10 fps proved to be true.
However I do recall some of the early rumors for the M6II were speculating it to be 16 fps I think so they missed it on that one.
Does anyone have a list (data) of Canons track record comparing confirmed rumors vs actual released spec's over the past few years?
I've not followed this much in the past so I'm curious how far off these confirmed specs have been in the past.
Track records have been pretty bad across all the rumor sites I follow over the past 2-3 years. Sony is the worst, Nikon just never has any good rumors and Fuji seems to have the best sources. As for Canon, the rumors where he is very confident seem to be from a good source.
We know that the CR3 rumor put out before the official development announcement was pretty darn accurate. Everything Canon disclosed was in the rumor and only one thing from the CR1 part of the rumor (only a few bolded specs were CR3) was debunked because it had said there would be a LV movie/stills switch like the DSLRs but we have seen that it doesn't have that.
Therefore, I think the CR3 parts of the rumor are probably all correct (even the few CR3 things that haven't been confirmed). There was also a few CR1 parts that did get confirmed so there is a good chance a lot of the CR1 part may also be correct.
But the FPS part has already been announced so we know the camera will do 12/20 mech/elect in some way or the other. But the rumor makes no mention of "caveats" to those FPS and Canon probably won't tell us until May at the earliest.
If I am being pessimistic I'd look to the EOS R and I'd suspect caveats but if I try to be optimistic and look to the 1DXIII LV and M6II then I think they could meet the specs without any limitations. If they have full AE/AF at full resolution 12FPS mech and 20FPS e-shutter then that will be awesome. The only thing I don't expect is the e-shutter to have a fast enough readout to shoot fast action with it without running into distortion issue as we've already discussed.
Well all the rumors for the 90D @ 10 fps proved to be true.
However I do recall some of the early rumors for the M6II were speculating it to be 16 fps I think so they missed it on that one.
Does anyone have a list (data) of Canons track record comparing confirmed rumors vs actual released spec's over the past few years?
I've not followed this much in the past so I'm curious how far off these confirmed specs have been in the past.
I don't have a log but if you think about the progression of the 5D body, they added MP and better AF over the generations. The jump in fps went from 3 to 3.9 to 6 to 7 and MP went from 12.7 to 21.1 to 22.3 to 30.
I guess it's possible for them to jump from 7fps to 12fps @40MP+ but it seems too good to be true for Canon. With that said technology is advancing at an exponential rate so maybe they will surprise a lot of us.
if they did, this would be a sports camera and wedding camera all in one and I just don't see them doing that.
slowdad wrote:
processing time, culling.....I use LR and then 5D4 files are slow compared to the 1Dx2 files....45-45 Mp files will suck for speed
Then the compressed C-RAW format won't help at all. Let's hope the rumored R6 with lower resolution also gets dual cards. There is a good chance we will know before the R5 gets to the street.
slowdad wrote:
processing time, culling.....I use LR and then 5D4 files are slow compared to the 1Dx2 files....45-45 Mp files will suck for speed
I hate to say this but that's because Lightroom is a dog. I have many folders with 3000+ 50MP 5DSR files that I can fly through with other image browsers on a high end but 9 year old PC. That's how I do culling, and I do all processing in ACR and Photoshop with no speed issues at all. It's the DAM and proprietary database manipulation part of LR that is hugely inefficient. But, if you need that then you need a lot more processing power to run it.
